Relief-What Club to Use

[BC MIST]

Under Nearst Point of Relief, note: It says - "In order to determine the neareset point of relief accurately, the player SHOULD use the club with which he would have made the next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."

In the past I have used a wedge for this determination if the shot to be played should have been with a wedge, or a 5 iron or whatever. But the above uses SHOULD and not MUST. Therefore, am I correct in saying that if I choose to use my driver for the point determination instead of my wedge, which is the club I would have used for the shot, that I am not breaking any rule?

[Gary Hill]

Under Nearst Point of Relief, note: It says - "In order to determine the neareset point of relief accurately, the player SHOULD use the club with which he would have made the next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."

In the past I have used a wedge for this determination if the shot to be played should have been with a wedge, or a 5 iron or whatever. But the above uses SHOULD and not MUST. Therefore, am I correct in saying that if I choose to use my driver for the point determination instead of my wedge, which is the club I would have used for the shot, that I am not breaking any rule?

That depends.

If the ball, after the drop, is within the prescribed area which would have been drawn using the correct club, then you have not breached the Rules 24-2b, 25-1, or 25-3. However, if the ball is outside this area because you used say a driver to measure your nearest point of relief instead of a wedge, then you would be in breach of applicable Rule.

Measuring with the wrong club is not a penalty in itself, but may lead to a penalty further along in the dropping procedure.

You would be wise to continue to measure with the correct club to avoid any question being raised as to whether a penalty has occurred.

[Nocturnal]

I've never seen a pro use anything other than a driver to measure.

[Gary Hill]

I've never seen a pro use anything other than a driver to measure.

You can use any club in your bag to measure.

We are discussing nearest point of relief only.

["Richard"]

Garry what do you shoot?

Also, can you give me an example of what you guys are talking about because as usual I'm lost

[BC MIST]

Garry what do you shoot?

Also, can you give me an example of what you guys are talking about because as usual I'm lost

My ball lands 75 yards from the green so I select to play the next shot with my gap wedge. But, the ball is on a cart path(immovable obstruction.) I elect to take relief so I address an imaginary ball by placing my feet closest to the cart path but not on it, AND I place my GAP WEDGE on the ground. The place where the club touches the ground is my nearest point of relief and I mark it with a tee. I can now drop the ball within one club length of this point, NOT NEARER THE HOLE. Common sense says that by using my longest club(driver or long putter) I will get the largest area in which to drop the ball (area of a circle / 4) than if I use a shorter club. I place the butt of the club on the nearest point of relief, mark the other end with another tee, and drop the ball in between the tees.

[Gary Hill]

Garry what do you shoot?

Groundhogs.

[BC MIST]

That depends.

If the ball, after the drop, is within the prescribed area which would have been drawn using the correct club, then you have not breached the Rules 24-2b, 25-1, or 25-3. However, if the ball is outside this area because you used say a driver to measure your nearest point of relief instead of a wedge, then you would be in breach of applicable Rule.

Measuring with the wrong club is not a penalty in itself, but may lead to a penalty further along in the dropping procedure.

You would be wise to continue to measure with the correct club to avoid any question being raised as to whether a penalty has occurred.

I understand the procedure, have read what to do, and have and will continue to use the appropriate club when encountering the situation, however, I still dont see where I MUST use the appropriate club, when it specifically says I SHOULD. Another rule also says that I SHOULD mark my ball for identification but I really don't HAVE to. If I am looking for my ball which may be lost and I find a ball, and no other, in the area in which it may have been lost, and it is a ball with the name and number that I teed off with, then I play this ball without penalty.

There is nothing in the rules you mentioned above that says I MUST. I understand that common sense says that if the cart path interferes with my wedge shot that I SHOULD use the wedge to determine the NPR, but it does not say MUST.

[Gary Hill]

There is nothing in the rules you mentioned above that says I MUST.

There is, by definition, only ONE nearest POINT of relief. It is up to you to find that point.
You may find that point in any manner that you wish, but you MUST find the correct point.
The note using the word "should" is a guideline to help you find that point.
In taking a stance with a driver, you have NOT found the nearest point of relief.

FYI - If you do not put an identification mark your ball and you find more than one ball of the same name and number in the area where your ball is likely to be, your ball is, by definition, lost.

[BC MIST]

There is, by definition, only ONE nearest POINT of relief. It is up to you to find that point.
You may find that point in any manner that you wish, but you MUST find the correct point.
The note using the word "should" is a guideline to help you find that point.
In taking a stance with a driver, you have NOT found the nearest point of relief.

Eureka!!!!
If I find my NPR using a driver, but hit the shot with my wedge, I'm a cheatin 'cause the NPR is not truly the NPR, unless I use the appropriate club which in my example is a shorter club.

[el tigre]

Eureka!!!!
If I find my NPR using a driver, but hit the shot with my wedge, I'm a cheatin 'cause the NPR is not truly the NPR, unless I use the appropriate club which in my example is a shorter club.

BC, that's not how I understand what Gary is saying.

Basically, I think he is saying that there is no penalty for dropping the ball incorrectly. The applicable penalty is for playing a ball from the wrong place - which MAY be the case if you don't follow the procedures for dropping a ball correctly.

However, the correct area for dropping a ball can be quite large. It is conceivable that you could totally screw up the measuring procedure for NPR and yet still drop the ball in the "correct" area - in which case you have not incurred a penalty and you're not cheating.

[Gary Hill]

BC, that's not how I understand what Gary is saying.

Basically, I think he is saying that there is no penalty for dropping the ball incorrectly. The applicable penalty is for playing a ball from the wrong place - which MAY be the case if you don't follow the procedures for dropping a ball correctly.

However, the correct area for dropping a ball can be quite large. It is conceivable that you could totally screw up the measuring procedure for NPR and yet still drop the ball in the "correct" area - in which case you have not incurred a penalty and you're not cheating.

Correct.

The Rules say the ball must be dropped within a defined area.

There is NOTHING in the Rules that says you have to measure at all.

Technically, you could just walk 3 feet away from the cart path and drop the ball.
You would be in compliance with the Rules (within one club of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief) MOST of the time.

However, if you want to be sure (like when the pros are playing for $3 million), then you must physically measure out the area with clubs.

The note to the definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" gives you guidance on how you may find this defined area. (ie. "should')