NHK draft 2005... first pick??

["Richard"]

Who gets the first pick in the draft this year? The season is canceled and the best JR player since MARIO is going to be the #1 pick?

I heard they might go back over 6 years, total up all the wins and rank the teams from worst to first. Then do a weighted draft. Who is the worst team over the past 6 years? I thinking rangers? How will they do it?

[The Shtick]

Washington Capitals had the first pick for 2005. I haven't heard of anything about a weighted draft.....

["Richard"]

Washington gets Crosby?

[laiec]

NHL would be delighted if the Rangers drafted the NEXT one. For him going to a small market city won't do them any good in term of publicity

[The Shtick]

Washington gets Crosby?

They should've, would've, could've...... damn I miss hockey!

["Richard"]

So I'm confused... who gets the #1 pick in the crosby draft?

[The Shtick]

The draft was cancelled and as far as I know, all eligable players for 2005 will have to wait an extra year. The NHL would have twice the normal amount of players eligable. So I assume that Crosby will get drafted by the Capitals in 2006.

["Richard"]

yeah ok, that makes sense but I think they are talking about avoiding that situation. They want to have the draft. They may have to do a weighted lottery. Why should crosby wait an extra year? Why does he even have to be drafted? Cant he jsut sign with the team he likes? I mean, lots of players in the NHL werent drafted right? Or have they all been drafted?

What happens to ottawa now? They don't have lalime and now hasek is a year older. Get a goalie? Who? I think they had a shot at it this year... but It think that every year

[broken27]

To set the record straight:

There are NO formal contingencies in place for the 2005 draft. As mentioned, they may look at an aggregate of the last 5-6 years and conduct a weighted lottery based on overall futility. Rangers wouldn't stand a chance of getting #1 really, considering they're only bad compared to their payroll. They tend to miss the playoffs by one or two spots EACH year.

Likely two candidates would be PIT (which would suck), and maybe Florida. Carolina would stand a chance too I think...

There is also talk of the draft class of 2005 becoming unrestricted free agents if the draft date passes with no draft. That would be funny. Leafs fans would go mental and post up a storm about how they were going to sign EVERYONE.

As for #1, I'd say Crosby's a sure thing for the pick, but if they wait until next summer to draft, I'm putting my money on Michael Frolik. This guy is (IMO) much more of a pure talent than Crosby, and if they open up the game a bit, he'll fare better in the long run. Again, only my opinion, but Crosby didn't impress me much at the Juniors, nor at the Memorial Cup, despite his point totals. Q league players always seem to score tons, but a lot of them fizzle at the NHL level (see Daigle for ex.).

Ottawa is kinda screwed for goalies at the moment, because I don't believe Ray Emery is an NHL calibre goalie. He spends far too much time fighting, and is prone to really inconsistent stretches. Prusek might be okay for one season, but we're in need of a true starter. I'd put a call in to Los Angeles or Calgary to try to get either Cechmanek or Turek. Both those guys would fit perfectly here.

Anyways, I miss hockey... I miss writing hockey... I miss our radio show about hockey... Oh well....

Dan

[The Shtick]

I agree that Ottawa is kinda screwed for goalies. Too bad we will probably never see Hasek in a Sens uniform. As for Cechmanek or Turek, I guess either of them would be a good mentor for Prusek as he's (in my mind) not ready to be the in the #1 spot. I'm not too keen on seeing a stand-up goalie such as Cechmanek play for the Sens but Turek could be a nice fit.

Hasek -> Prusek -> Turek. Makes sense to me!

Gotta love 'em Czech goalies!

[flagolfnut]

I thought it was going to be a lottery draft this year? It should be a lottery dreaft every year like the NBA.

[broken27]

I thought it was going to be a lottery draft this year? It should be a lottery dreaft every year like the NBA.

The NHL had lotteries in the past bunch of drafts (since ANA and FLA joined I think). Only teams who missed the playoffs are seeded into the lottery, and have more chance of getting the #1 pick if they were dead last. It's all weighted.

Now, the lottery they're talking about at the moment would involve ALL teams, not just those who missed the playoffs. Technically even a successful team like Colorado or Detroit or New Jersey could get the top pick, but it isn't likely.

Nothing has been decided yet, according to my sources (David Pagnotta, editor in chief, thefourthperiod.com and The Fourth Period Radio Show). It isn't likely that they'd announce plans for the draft until the CBA is settled. Otherwise it would create backlash for sure from agents, players and potential prospects.

Dan

[flagolfnut]

The NHL had lotteries in the past bunch of drafts (since ANA and FLA joined I think). Only teams who missed the playoffs are seeded into the lottery, and have more chance of getting the #1 pick if they were dead last. It's all weighted.

Now, the lottery they're talking about at the moment would involve ALL teams, not just those who missed the playoffs. Technically even a successful team like Colorado or Detroit or New Jersey could get the top pick, but it isn't likely.

Nothing has been decided yet, according to my sources (David Pagnotta, editor in chief, thefourthperiod.com and The Fourth Period Radio Show). It isn't likely that they'd announce plans for the draft until the CBA is settled. Otherwise it would create backlash for sure from agents, players and potential prospects.

Dan

I think ALL teams should have a chance in the lottery, that's how it is in the NBA. Of course the better teams would have less of a chance of winning but hell why not? Wouldn't be cool to see Crosby playing with a good team instead of some crap team? It would definetly peak my interest, sort of like watching the Bulls when they had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman ect...or like they Yankees. People love to watch good teams play, if Colorado won Crosby from the draft I think a lot more Colorado games would be played on t.v, but if he went to Washington a crap team they would air a few games but everyone knows that they're going to lose anyway with or without Crosby and in time nobody would really care about Crosby or the Capitals. He would be awesome developing his skills with a good team and then he will be a superstar. Look at Gretzky when the Oilers won, they had a good team...Kurri, Tikkanen, Fuhr ect...

[broken27]

I think ALL teams should have a chance in the lottery, that's how it is in the NBA. Of course the better teams would have less of a chance of winning but hell why not? Wouldn't be cool to see Crosby playing with a good team instead of some crap team? It would definetly peak my interest, sort of like watching the Bulls when they had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman ect...or like they Yankees. People love to watch good teams play, if Colorado won Crosby from the draft I think a lot more Colorado games would be played on t.v, but if he went to Washington a crap team they would air a few games but everyone knows that they're going to lose anyway with or without Crosby and in time nobody would really care about Crosby or the Capitals. He would be awesome developing his skills with a good team and then he will be a superstar. Look at Gretzky when the Oilers won, they had a good team...Kurri, Tikkanen, Fuhr ect...

From the point of view of a fan of a good team (Ottawa), I can understand your logic, but there's a fundamental element or two that's missing...

Firstly - How can a "crap team" ever improve under your proposed lottery system? It's not very likely. There seems to be far more parity in basketball, simply because more people play it, so there's more "talent" (coughs) to go around. Hockey is much harder in this respect...

Secondly - The NHL is not the NBA, no matter how much Gary Bettman wants it to be. The NBA is the model for how to ruin economics. Overspending, ridiculous in-house equalization systems, and an image that is starting to surpass the WWF in terms of being low-class. I heard some of the interviews last night after game 7 DET/MIA, and I could barely understand the players.... Get an education, but this time actually GO TO THE CLASSES YOU MORONS!!!!

Finally, you assert that Washington is a "crap team". I'm assuming that's just an example, as Washington is far from the worst team in the league. You have to evalute a team on their present direction, and the Caps are rebuilding following a poorly executed Jagr strategy. Had the Washington coaching staff allowed Jagr to play open ice hockey, instead of chastizing him for not playing defensive hockey, they would still have Lang, Bondra, Konowolchuk, Klee, etc... Instead, they have to wait for guys like Alexander Semin to mature and take on the roles they are expected to (this Semin kid is AWESOME!!!).

So, while the NBA continues to be a money-pig, and as they continue to make a worse and worse product for inner-city America to watch, I'll applaud hockey for staying the course where prospect drafting is concerned. Remember that the NBA (as far as I know) doesn't have a farm system. Hockey does. NHL teams actually play an active role in DEVELOPING talent, whereas the NBA simply BUYS talent. If the NHL had equitable TV dollars, the league would not be in the trouble it is in today. They tried following the NBA model, and it did not work.

Keep the NHL as far away from the NBA as possible, or lose hockey forever.

And as for the Yankees... Don't get me started on that abomination of a franchise... Nice record their boasting for a so-called "good team"....

Dan

[Green Jacket]

I think ALL teams should have a chance in the lottery, that's how it is in the NBA.

Actually, only teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are eligible for the lottery.

From NBA.com:
Results of NBA Draft Lottery 2005:
1. Milwaukee; 2. Atlanta; 3. Portland; 4. New Orleans; 5. Charlotte; 6. Utah; 7. Toronto; 8. New York; 9. Golden State; 10. LA Lakers; 11. Orlando; 12. LA Clippers; 13. Cleveland (To Charlotte via Phoenix); 14. Minnesota.

The following is the order for the remainder of NBA Draft 2005:
15. New Jersey; 16. Philadelphia (To Toronto via Denver and New Jersey); 17. Indiana
18. Boston; 19. Memphis; 20. Washington (To Denver via Orlando); 21. Chicago (To Phoenix); 22. Denver; 23. Sacramento; 24. Houston; 25. Seattle; 26. Detroit; 27. Dallas (To Utah); 28. San Antonio; 29. Miami; 30. Phoenix (To New York via San Antonio).

[broken27]

Actually, only teams that miss the playoffs in the NBA are eligible for the lottery.

From NBA.com:
Results of NBA Draft Lottery 2005:
1. Milwaukee; 2. Atlanta; 3. Portland; 4. New Orleans; 5. Charlotte; 6. Utah; 7. Toronto; 8. New York; 9. Golden State; 10. LA Lakers; 11. Orlando; 12. LA Clippers; 13. Cleveland (To Charlotte via Phoenix); 14. Minnesota.

The following is the order for the remainder of NBA Draft 2005:
15. New Jersey; 16. Philadelphia (To Toronto via Denver and New Jersey); 17. Indiana
18. Boston; 19. Memphis; 20. Washington (To Denver via Orlando); 21. Chicago (To Phoenix); 22. Denver; 23. Sacramento; 24. Houston; 25. Seattle; 26. Detroit; 27. Dallas (To Utah); 28. San Antonio; 29. Miami; 30. Phoenix (To New York via San Antonio).

I thought so, but not being at all a fan of basketball, I wasn't entirely sure... Wouldn't have shocked me to see it the other way, but this is exactly the NHL model Gary Bettman imposed on the league...

Dan

[broken27]

Well, according to Hasek's agent, Rich Winter, the Dominator will still suit up for the Senators after all! Two years off (if you consider he only played 14 games in his past two seasons) should help that April '04 groin surgery.

This is the best news about hockey I could possibly hear, other than there actually being a solution to the CBA thing...

The best goalie of all time (barring possibly Tretiak, screw Roy, he's the best wife-beater of all time) is coming to my favourite team!!! WOOHOO!!!

GO SENS GO!!!

Dan

["Richard"]

Hasek COULD be considered the best goalie of all time but you can't overlook roy, broduer and Tretiak. Gretzky said the two best goalies he has ever played against are Tretiak
and hextall.

I personally would say the best goalie ever is martin brodeur and then hasek and then roy

[broken27]

Hasek COULD be considered the best goalie of all time but you can't overlook roy, broduer and Tretiak. Gretzky said the two best goalies he has ever played against are Tretiak
and hextall.

I personally would say the best goalie ever is martin brodeur and then hextall and then roy

Hextall???? Are you serious??? He wasn't even as good as the late Pelle Lindbergh. Hasek has the Vezinas and other awards to support my argument that he's the best ever. Tretiak can't possibly have the same accolades, because of the Soviet Union's political climate... Roy doesn't have the Vezinas that Hasek does.

Who cares what Gretzky says? He's not an analyst... Just because he couldn't score on Hextall doesn't mean Hextall is one of the best ever... Hell, I'd say he's not even in the top 20.

Of course, although I am an analyst, it's still 80% opinion...

Dan

[powerlefty]

I thought so, but not being at all a fan of basketball, I wasn't entirely sure... Wouldn't have shocked me to see it the other way, but this is exactly the NHL model Gary Bettman imposed on the league...

Dan

The current draft system (i.e. that contained in the recently expired CBA) is much better than the old system. Under the old system, based solely on final standings, a team could tank the last couple of weeks of the season to try and finish last to get the #1 overall pick. I think Ottawa was accused of that in the Daigle draft year and Sam Pollock did a deal with LA back in the early 1970s whereby he traded some quality player near the end of their career (Backstrom maybe?) so that LA would finish ahead of Oakland (or California, or whatever that inept franchise was called then). Oakland would get the first overall pick then by finishing last. Of course Pollock had already acquired the Oakland draft pick in a deal a year or so earlier. The prize - Guy Lafleur.

Under the current system with the lottery, there is no guarantee that by finishing last, you get the first pick, just a higher probability of doing so. Also I think there is a limit as to how many places you can move up or down in the draft order. That way the terrible team that finishes last, if they lose the lottery, may only get bumped from say the first pick to the third pick. Likewise I think a team that finishes just out of the playoffs can't get the #1 but can improve their sleection spot somewhat.

["Richard"]

ahaha, I edited that right away. Hextall was on my mind when I was writting that. I wouldn't have hextall in my top 20 either. I meant to say HASEK. I think gretz was just talking about that one year they met in the playoffs.

[broken27]

My opposition to the post in question revolved around the proposed NBA system (since debunked) of all 30 teams being in the lottery. Gary Bettman imposed the current lottery on the league, and I think it works fairly well as is. To expand it to all teams would be stupid.

It was based entirely on the initial post. I basically agree with you, although I believe Guy Lafleur was MTL bound regardless because they got the first pick of any Quebecker in the draft no matter where they were in the order. Basically MTL got a free pick for years.....

Dan

The current draft system (i.e. that contained in the recently expired CBA) is much better than the old system. Under the old system, based solely on final standings, a team could tank the last couple of weeks of the season to try and finish last to get the #1 overall pick. I think Ottawa was accused of that in the Daigle draft year and Sam Pollock did a deal with LA back in the early 1970s whereby he traded some quality player near the end of their career (Backstrom maybe?) so that LA would finish ahead of Oakland (or California, or whatever that inept franchise was called then). Oakland would get the first overall pick then by finishing last. Of course Pollock had already acquired the Oakland draft pick in a deal a year or so earlier. The prize - Guy Lafleur.

Under the current system with the lottery, there is no guarantee that by finishing last, you get the first pick, just a higher probability of doing so. Also I think there is a limit as to how many places you can move up or down in the draft order. That way the terrible team that finishes last, if they lose the lottery, may only get bumped from say the first pick to the third pick. Likewise I think a team that finishes just out of the playoffs can't get the #1 but can improve their sleection spot somewhat.

[powerlefty]

My opposition to the post in question revolved around the proposed NBA system (since debunked) of all 30 teams being in the lottery. Gary Bettman imposed the current lottery on the league, and I think it works fairly well as is. To expand it to all teams would be stupid.

It was based entirely on the initial post. I basically agree with you, although I believe Guy Lafleur was MTL bound regardless because they got the first pick of any Quebecker in the draft no matter where they were in the order. Basically MTL got a free pick for years.....

Dan

True MTL got the first Quebec pick for years but that system was gone by the 70s. Lafleur was the #1 pick overall that year in the draft. I'm not sure when it disappeared but even before Lafleur, Gilbert Perreault went #1 in the Buffalo/Vancouver expansion draft and that would be in 1970. Buffalo actually won a lottery (spin of a wheel I think) to get the first pick. Vancouver got #2 and chose Dale Talon. The system you are referring to likely disappeared in 1967 with the first wave of expansion but I am not certain.

[broken27]

True MTL got the first Quebec pick for years but that system was gone by the 70s. Lafleur was the #1 pick overall that year in the draft. I'm not sure when it disappeared but even before Lafleur, Gilbert Perreault went #1 in the Buffalo/Vancouver expansion draft and that would be in 1970. Buffalo actually won a lottery (spin of a wheel I think) to get the first pick. Vancouver got #2 and chose Dale Talon. The system you are referring to likely disappeared in 1967 with the first wave of expansion but I am not certain.

I think you're right... But there was something about Lafleur that all but guaranteed he'd end up in Montreal no matter what... I can't put my finger on it, but I'll do some research.

Dan

["Richard"]

Dan, what are some of the most lop sided trades in Sports history? Either at the time of the trade or something that was obviously lopsided a few years down the road...

[broken27]

I think you're right... But there was something about Lafleur that all but guaranteed he'd end up in Montreal no matter what... I can't put my finger on it, but I'll do some research.

Dan

Didn't take long:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/...98802&page=bio

This paragraph in particular:

As a child, Lafleur was so in love with hockey that he used to sneak into the arena in his hometown of Thurso, Quebec, early on Sundays and weekday mornings to get extra ice time when no one else was around. He also slept in his hockey equipment to make his trip to the arena in the morning easier. "When I was a kid, all we saw on TV was the Canadiens, and all I wanted to be was Beliveau. We had one bleu, blanc et rouge Canadiens sweater and I fought the others for the right to wear it. I dreaded to be drafted by any other team but the Canadiens, and when they took me I was so happy. If any other team had taken me, I would have signed with the Quebec team in the other league [the Nordiques, who were then in the WHA]. But the Canadiens had the greatest tradition in hockey and it was my dream to play for them."

Sounds like Eric Lindros' role model!!!

Dan