Score Golf Top 100 List

[Johnyc]

Thoughts on the Score Golf top 100 list? Personally, I can't believe Royal Ottawa merits a ranking of 53rd in Canada. Camelot, Rideau View and Eagle Creek round out the local contingent. Wondering just how this evaluation is done?

[jeffc]

It's odd indeed. RO is a quirky layout. No idea how it got in the top 100 let alone 53

[Johnyc]

I hate to say this, but I wonder what impact their anniversary has on the decision? They are hosting the CDN amateur, so that might also play into it to. I can't believe that the local panel could vote for it over Hunt Club. It's actually shocking. It's not as well manicured. The layout is extremely odd. I'd like to know when the courses were evaluated and by whom.

[jeffc]

there is a panel that evaluates them. details here: http://scoregolf.com/the100/how-we-rank-them/

[Travis]

A buddy of mine is one of the raters. He HAS to complete a minimum of 20 course ratings per season.

The courses are rated based on several different criteria including playability/fun, course conditions (greens, tees, fwy) challenge/design etc etc and is given a total score out of 10. I can tell you that centennial and other anniversary type celebrations are not part of the rating criteria.

For a course to be eligible they have to have at least 10 ratings completed by members of the panel. An effort has been made recently to get more raters from across the Country as there were complaints that too many of them were located in the GTA. My buddy happens to live in Toronto but he travels a lot for work and I was able to play with him last year when he was in town and he rated Camelot, the Hunt and Montebello.

Like any list there are going to be people who scratch their head and won't be happy but they do their best to achieve a large enough sample size and get it right.

I agree with some of you as well the Royal is a bit of a quirky design, especially from the back tees with forced layups and subsequent long second shots, back to back similar par 3's etc but it is still a hell of a track with VERY fast and true greens (albeit small ones)

[Johnyc]

A buddy of mine is one of the raters. He HAS to complete a minimum of 20 course ratings per season.

The courses are rated based on several different criteria including playability/fun, course conditions (greens, tees, fwy) challenge/design etc etc and is given a total score out of 10. I can tell you that centennial and other anniversary type celebrations are not part of the rating criteria.

For a course to be eligible they have to have at least 10 ratings completed by members of the panel. An effort has been made recently to get more raters from across the Country as there were complaints that too many of them were located in the GTA. My buddy happens to live in Toronto but he travels a lot for work and I was able to play with him last year when he was in town and he rated Camelot, the Hunt and Montebello.

Like any list there are going to be people who scratch their head and won't be happy but they do their best to achieve a large enough sample size and get it right.

I agree with some of you as well the Royal is a bit of a quirky design, especially from the back tees with forced layups and subsequent long second shots, back to back similar par 3's etc but it is still a hell of a track with VERY fast and true greens (albeit small ones)

When did he rate Hunt Club?

[Travis]

When did he rate Hunt Club?

Last Sept

[Johnyc]

Had the south nine opened yet? Were you able to play the gold course? They've made renovations since he evaluated last September. I've played the Ottawa courses a fair number of times. I still can't get my head around Royal being 53rd in Canada, but so be it.

[Travis]

We played the Red course (North/South) but rode around the West course to see the new design and layout.

[Michaelb235]

Obviously not many of you know what it takes to make a top notch golf course. If you ever played there you would know. It's ranked 43rd because the number of people who were raters judged the conditions and layout better than anything else in this region. At least Travis knows what he's talking about .

[jeffc]

Obviously not many of you know what it takes to make a top notch golf course. If you ever played there you would know. It's ranked 43rd because the number of people who were raters judged the conditions and layout better than anything else in this region. At least Travis knows what he's talking about .

I've played it. I wasn't impressed.

[Michaelb235]

Oh my, you must had a bad day.

[Johnyc]

53rd. And no, the layout is very finicky. I've never been impressed with the course. It's nowhere near as nice as Granite in Toronto. 53rd in Canada is shocking. Having done some digging I get the Hunt exclusion - they weren't considered as they didn't have the required number of ratings, not surprising considering the course wasn't finished until the end of last season. Royal isn't in my top 3 in Ottawa (I rank it 5th in the area behind Hunt, Camelot, Eagle Creek and Rideau View).

Sorry, but the most lasting positive impression of Royal was the clubhouse. Not sure if this is a consideration (I hope not) but it's more memorable than the golf course.

[jeffc]

Oh my, you must had a bad day.

not at all. had a wonderful day. I just wasn't impressed with the course. too many quirky holes for my liking and just kinda meh. And as mentioned below, the most memorable part was dinner on the patio at the clubhouse, which I would argue is the best in the city.

[Michaelb235]

Dear JohnyC - love those opinions FINICKY, NOT WELL MANICURED, LAYOUT ODD! Well Johny C it's a parkland course, you take what nature gave you and you work with it. So why don't you go out the Royal Ottawa this week for the Canadian Men's Amatuer Championship. You see how well manicured it is and ask the players what they think about. You'll find nothing but great comments.

[Johnyc]

If you're going to quote comments, get it right. I said it's "not as well manicured." I didn't say "not well manicured." Big difference.

I've played the course and stand by my comments. Back to back par threes of almost the exact same length is odd. Ranking Royal Ottawa 53rd in Canada speaks to a poor rating system. It's a nice course, don't get me wrong, but when you start to talk about top 60 courses in Canada it shouldn't be part of the discussion.

[Michaelb235]

Oh, Johnny C - seems like I touched a nerve. Again, did you bother to talk to anyone who participated in the recent Canadian Amateur? If you did you would hear comments that affirmed its ranking.

[jeffc]

Oh, Johnny C - seems like I touched a nerve. Again, did you bother to talk to anyone who participated in the recent Canadian Amateur? If you did you would hear comments that affirmed its ranking.

It's called an opinion. I think he touched a nerve with you. I assume you are a member?

[Michaelb235]

Hello Jeff C - well yes I am a member and pleased to play this great course. I do understand views posted are opinions. But as you know when posted publicly, others can respond (-as you have done). I understand that one's own views are subjective that is why I suggested listening to others, particularly those who have played courses throughout the country and can objectively state their views. Always open to rational debate.

[jeffc]

I think he was being rational, as was I. I think it's tougher when you are a member to be completely objective. It's a fine course, but not my favourite in the city.

[goochy]

I spoke to a lot of players who played the Amateur at Camelot a couple of years back and they loved it there too. I'm sure they enjoy playing that event regardless of where it's played as it is a prestigious, historical event played at very good courses prepared to be in prime condition for the tournament.
However, in my own honest opinion I too would not place the Royal in the top three courses in the National Capital Region.

[Johnyc]

Oh, Johnny C - seems like I touched a nerve. Again, did you bother to talk to anyone who participated in the recent Canadian Amateur? If you did you would hear comments that affirmed its ranking.

Didn't touch a nerve. You twisted my words, so I wanted to clarify my original position which I did. At the end of the day, as a member, if you're happy with the course than that's great. Unless the evaluators have played every course on the list in the same year, it's pretty much impossible to compare one to the other. Any list that has Royal Ottawa ahead of Rosedale raises red flags IMO.

On a complete aside, I just played Black Bear Ridge last week (twice). I've played nicer courses, but I'm not sure if I've ever played a course that nice for the price. Two rounds, including cart, was under $120. I can see where it merits the ranking and notoriety it has achieved.

[Nimm]

I like the RO, but it just would not be in my top 3 in the area, maybe 4th or 5th if i put a list together

[Travis]

Unless the evaluators have played every course on the list in the same year, it's pretty much impossible to compare one to the other. Any list that has Royal Ottawa ahead of Rosedale raises red flags IMO.

It is impossible. That is why the score that you see posted on the Top 100 list is actually an average of the last 5 years worth of ratings.

[Johnyc]

It is impossible. That is why the score that you see posted on the Top 100 list is actually an average of the last 5 years worth of ratings.

Interesting. If it's a five year average, how does a course move from outside the top 100 to 29th? Or, in the case of Royal Ottawa, if the course moves from the mid 60's to low 50's does that mean it was actually rated much lower during the most recent evaluation to pull it down (from 64th to 53rd) 10+ spots?

[Travis]

http://magazines.scoregolf.com/summe...ex.html?page=1

Check this link out a lot of answers can be found there.

[dmartin]

Been reading this post with much amusement for a while and felt it's about time
to comment.

Just saying but "Old Money" wouldn't bother with the views of this forum..

Myself ... I'll play anywhere with my friends or those who wish to be.

[Gobble_It]

Should change it to "Best golf courses in Canada that 95% of golfers cannot afford to play"

[John]

I was a junior member at the Royal Ottawa for a few years and still have a soft spot for that track however I can see how people do find it quirky. I always loved the layout of the property, the way most holes are well framed by older trees and I would still argue that their greens at least when I played were absolutely amazing and ive never putted anything faster since. I am however a little shocked to see it at 53 in all of Canada but it's history must have some part to play in that.

[jvincent]

I might as well wade in.

I haven't bothered to look at the list of raters for the Score Golf list but presumably they have played a lot of top golf courses both in Canada and world wide so I'll assume they are qualified. That said, the problem with any list of this kind is that the personal preference of the raters always comes into play.

I've played more than my share of top golf courses and certainly some of them are there based on reputation or history. There are also things that matter to some people (clubhouse, service) that don't matter to others.

One thing you can be sure of is that these lists are meant to create debate and drive traffic, so mission accomplished there.