Overlly Complicated?

[HiG4s]

Mark an X on your scorecard for that hole and play a little faster.

1. That doesn't answer the question.
2. Just because a marshal will not let someone go back does not mean they were playing too slow. Courses often put tee times too close togeather and try to rush the players.
3. so in stroke play what is an X and how would I add up my score?

[jvincent]

I still fail to see what isn't simple about a rule that can be applied "as is" 99% of the time.

The original discussion was that in general the rules are more complicated than they need to be.

I agree, that most of the time they are very simple to apply, assuming you know them.

BUT, and it's a big but, the rules are in fact relatively complex and that makes them very daunting to most players so many don't bother to read the Rule book.

Perhaps the question should be why are the rules so complicated and by extension, if they are as simple as they are portrayed, why is the decision book so large?

IMHO, by trying to be simultaneously fair, by granting relief in certain situations, while at the same time trying to not confer any advantage, restricting how and where relief can be taken, they have become confusing.

But then again I am neither the RCGA or the USGA.

[GarthM]

1. That doesn't answer the question.
2. Just because a marshal will not let someone go back does not mean they were playing too slow. Courses often put tee times too close togeather and try to rush the players.
3. so in stroke play what is an X and how would I add up my score?

So let the group waiting on the tee play through and then hit 3 off the tee. No big X's on the card to deal with and the marshall is happy (er).

[LobWedge]

I agree, that most of the time they are very simple to apply, assuming you know them.

That's why you should carry a rulebook.

BUT, and it's a big but, the rules are in fact relatively complex and that makes them very daunting to most players so many don't bother to read the Rule book.

That's their problem, not yours or mine. If you don't know, ask.

Perhaps the question should be why are the rules so complicated and by extension, if they are as simple as they are portrayed, why is the decision book so large?

Because no one golf course is like another, so you may come across a situation that doesn't exist anywhere else. Hockey, which is played on a defined surface, has over 90 rules and a decisions (casebook) to match. Baseball, again played on a defined field has over 100 rules and a casbook to match. Golf only has 34.

IMHO, by trying to be simultaneously fair, by granting relief in certain situations, while at the same time trying to not confer any advantage, restricting how and where relief can be taken, they have become confusing.

Again, if you don't know, ask the RCGA, or a club pro, or a fellow competitor, or a playing partner, or Gary. It's not a conspiracy of secrecy. The rules are based on equity. And what may be equitable in one situation may not be in another, so a different rule is required.

[jvincent]

Again, if you don't know, ask the RCGA, or a club pro, or a fellow competitor, or a playing partner, or Gary. It's not a conspiracy of secrecy. The rules are based on equity. And what may be equitable in one situation may not be in another, so a different rule is required.

Other than Gary or the RCGA, you're not likely to get an accurate answer from most of the people on your list. Hell, of the people I normally play with, there's only one who I'd even think to ask for a ruling because I know I know the rules better than any of them.

As was mentioned earlier, even on the PGA tour, with a dedicated rules official in each group, they make mistakes.

[el tigre]

BUT, and it's a big but, the rules are in fact relatively complex and that makes them very daunting to most players so many don't bother to read the Rule book.

Actually, if they bothered to read the Rule Book they would find that the rules are not that complex at all. At least 90% of rules questions can be answered by simply copying the applicable section of the Rule Book verbatim without any further explanation.

Considering the variety of circumstances you can come across on a golf course, I think the rules are pretty simple. The problem is that the rules are self-taught and self-policed by the players themselves. If they don't bother to try and read the Rule Book, how can they complain that it is too hard?

If we all had an official to follow us around and blow a whistle every time there was a rules infraction (like hockey), we would all get a "working" knowledge of the rules pretty quickly. We could simply ask the official what all our options are whenever we come across a situation we're not sure of. Life would be easy!

Of course, these guys don't work for free. I'm guessing an extra $50 - $100 added to your green fee should just about cover it!

[LobWedge]

Other than Gary or the RCGA, you're not likely to get an accurate answer from most of the people on your list. Hell, of the people I normally play with, there's only one who I'd even think to ask for a ruling because I know I know the rules better than any of them.

So then you're the go to guy in your group. If you have enough of an understanding of the rules to get you around the course, why are you so concerned with how everyone else interprets or uses the rules, unless you're playing for money?

As was mentioned earlier, even on the PGA tour, with a dedicated rules official in each group, they make mistakes.

Hockey uses 4 officials + video replay, baseball 4 (and 6 in the playoffs), football uses 8 + video replay, basketball uses 3, and still mistakes happen. It's human nature. We're not perfect.

[jvincent]

So then you're the go to guy in your group. If you have enough of an understanding of the rules to get you around the course, why are you so concerned with how everyone else interprets or uses the rules, unless you're playing for money?

Just trying to make the world a better place.

Given the general ignorance of the rules, and I am certainly no expert myself, I would never play for money without a rules official in place. It's just not worth the grief.

I play for fun and will mark the X on my card and just hit practice shots on a hole once it's gotten silly score wise.

If / when I ever end up playing in a sanctioned tournament, I'll be more careful.

P.S. Just noticed this discussion pushed me to caddy status. Better make sure I count those clubs.

[LobWedge]

Just trying to make the world a better place.

Given the general ignorance of the rules, and I am certainly no expert myself, I would never play for money without a rules official in place. It's just not worth the grief.

I play for fun and will mark the X on my card and just hit practice shots on a hole once it's gotten silly score wise.

If / when I ever end up playing in a sanctioned tournament, I'll be more careful.

P.S. Just noticed this discussion pushed me to caddy status. Better make sure I count those clubs.

Hey, no problem. The fact that you're talking about stuff like this shows that you care about the game. I'd tee it up with you anytime. Hit 'em straight. Cheers.

[Gary Hill]

I'm guessing an extra $50 - $100 added to your green fee should just about cover it!

I will GLADLY accompany your group for $100.

[LobWedge]

I will GLADLY accompany your group for $100.

LMAO!!

[BC MIST]

The rules of golf that apply to 99% of the situations we get ourselves into(lost ball, OB, hazards, relief from obstructions, etc.) are very easy to learn. There are books available(Golf Rules in Pictures) that use diagrams and pictures to illustrate procedures, and the RCGA/USGA has rules video tapes that one can purchase and are very well done.

The problem is that many/most golfers just couldn't be bothered learning the basics, or learn a little of the rule, but not all of it, so they get one or more of the procedures(lateral water hazards) screwed up. There are many, particularly old timers, who think they know the rules, but don't and will argue their invalid point and will not consider the truth. Trying to convince someone that it matters whether you are left or right handed when determining where to take relief from a cart path(immoveable obstruction) is a challenge.

There are many rarely encountered situations/rulings that come up during a round where we may not know what to do, but part of the fun is learning the correct procedure. Examples: You are chipping to a green with you FC attending the flag for you, and after you hit the ball he pulls up on the flag, the cup comes up with it and you hit the cup. What do you do? Or, you approach lands in the fringe between the greenside bunker and the putting green, and makes a ball mark. Can you repair the ball mark before putting and can you wisk away the loose sand that is on your line? Is there any occasion where playing a tee shot out of turn in medal play, would result in a penalty?

The rules are not difficult. Just learn them. Now, just where did I leave my rule book???

[Kilroy]

The more I learn about the rules, the simpler they seem. I know that sounds like I am simply learning and gaining understanding, but the truth is that they are simpler than we think they are when we don't know them.

[Gary Hill]

The more I learn about the rules, the simpler they seem. I know that sounds like I am simly learning and gaining understanding, but the truth is that they are simpler than we think they are when we don't know them.

Exactly.