This got me permanently banned from the other golf sim forum!

[m3w]

All I did was post this youtube video, and they permanently banned me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbGrBp8idJM

[goatbarn]

hmmm, i don't read their policy but maybe the video sends you to another forum or something?

Maybe talk to bubba...

[wbond]

Did they have issue with it because the video promoted PG over TGC?

[m3w]

I have no idea why they removed it and banned me. They didn't give me any messages before they did it. I just tried to log on, and it said I was permanently banned.

[goatbarn]

Here is what the rules say, since you can no longer read them, and I can't really tell where your infraction would fall:

General Rules

Do not do any of the following:
Flame or insult other members
Bypass any filters
Abuse or encourage abuse of the Reputation, or Post Reporting Systems
Post personally identifiable information (i.e. name, address, email, phone number, etc.)
Bump threads
Derail a thread's topic
Post links to phishing sites
Post spam or Re-post Closed, Modified, Deleted Content
Repetitively post in the incorrect forum
Openly argue with a moderator
Off-Limit Topics/Replies

Do not post any topics/replies containing the following:
Porn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez or leaked content or anything else not safe for work
Any discussion of piracy will result in a permanent ban from the forum
Cheating, hacking, game exploits
Threats of violence or harassment, even as a joke
Posted copyright material
Redirecting to other forums
Soliciting, begging, auctioning, raffling, selling, advertising, referrals
Racism, discrimination
Abusive language, including swearing
Drugs and alcohol
Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads

[mthunt]

This is a new one for me. You should email them. Could be a mistake. I can't see them purposely kicked off for that video but what do I know. There's lots of video links about other software. If they did, they shouldn't have.

[psgolfer]

Nope, not a mistake. There was another ban.

Luv2golf (I know some of you guys won't be sad) was banned for posting the same video.

There is not infraction with the video, it's a good video touting both Perfect Golf and TGC. The only possible infraction I can see is that at the end of the video the narrator states:

I believe that Perfect Golf is a better Golf Sim option than TGC.

[mthunt]

That bans someone? Strange.

[psgolfer]

It's not strange, I don't want to be to verbal of my thoughts and views here or I might get banned on this forum.

I guess at the end of the day, you never really know who or what your dealing with until sometimes it's to late and at the point your in so far
that you just have to accept things the way they are.

That's not going to make sense to some but it will to most who know the history.

Just to bad that in this day and age the owner of a golf game (remember folks, it's just a game) is so threatened by a video that he needs to ban users.

[AJA]

I don't think the "it's just a game" comment is on the mark since it also happens to be that person's business.

With respect to the video itself, there were a few gaffes that kind of spoke volumes. Most telling to me was that they never showed that PG or TGC worked with SkyTrak, as no shots were shown. The one shot that was shown was simply of SkyTrak and it could not hide the delay from shot to display.

Otherwise it could be construed as "advertising" since at some point there were web page addresses posted. On the basis of the content it was somewhat dismissive of TGC and in my view didn't give a fair account of it's capabilities. At the same time there are features in PG that aren't in TGC currently.

[mthunt]

I actually didn't watch the whole video so I went back and did. I still think it's strange. The site is about simulators and peoples opinions on them. The guy posted his opinion. I still think it's strange and sad.

I do find it funny how people immediately attack a few little features. It's called FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Sales poeple make it seem like the feature you have and the other doesn't is the most important thing in the world. The guy pointed out separate tees like there's no point in even playing a game unless there's sepperate tees. He also made it sound like the 11 courses on pg are the way to go because they aren't user created. That's funny because the courses are the best thing.

IMO, the bottom line is if you're going to create a user forum about ALL simulators with sections about them, how can you ban someone for posting an opinion?

I should add that imho both are amazing software and I don't have an opinion on which is better. I'm not commenting on that, just this whole situation.

[wbond]

I think they considered it free advertising and as such banned members who posted the link. I merely took it as one persons opinion that he thought PG was better than TGC. To me though, some of his points seemed off base. Just another opinion from someone. He highlighted the new feature of skytrak and talked about two software packages and possible pricing for each. Maybe the advertising was his hat or the links, don't know. Don't think it should warrant a permanent ban unless they warned you not to link it again and you did anyway.

TGC does work in the video, person hits shot and from what i counted, less than 3 seconds to display.

[mthunt]

I actually thought it was a forum about all sims. Removing the post, no problem. Banning someone, problem.

[Stonebattle]

I'm not a member on this other sight and don't plan to be, but I could have easily made the same mistake m3w did. Although like most/all of you, I don't know what that mistake was.

I read posts on that sight, so I can see why Luv2golf may have been banned, but m3w is a solid citizen as far as I can tell. Therefore, banning him without a warning makes no sense to me.

I'm wondering if a member on that sight might start a threat asking the reason m3w was banned. That way others could at least avoid that particular pitfall. It would also seem appropriate to ask that m3w be reinstated.

[wbond]

I'm guessing here is the reason for the ban.

Commercial video's from companies or individuals related to golf simulator hardware or software containing links to other commercial websites or competitive websites, containing pricing and specific statements about what to buy and where to buy it is considered advertising. Please do not start a public discussion on this subject.

On a side note, they just posted about why luv2golf got banned. Apparently he was also banned earlier under a different user name and maybe someone who posted earlier in this very thread.

[psgolfer]

I don't think the "it's just a game" comment is on the mark since it also happens to be that person's business.

With respect to the video itself, there were a few gaffes that kind of spoke volumes. Most telling to me was that they never showed that PG or TGC worked with SkyTrak, as no shots were shown. The one shot that was shown was simply of SkyTrak and it could not hide the delay from shot to display.

Otherwise it could be construed as "advertising" since at some point there were web page addresses posted. On the basis of the content it was somewhat dismissive of TGC and in my view didn't give a fair account of it's capabilities. At the same time there are features in PG that aren't in TGC currently.

It's not advertising, the only thing this guy was advertising was the name on his hat.

Even that's not worth a ban, made delete the link. He does that alot too.

It was a fair discussion of both Golf Games (I guess seeing as protee sales are spiraling, that this game is his only revenue).

The only reason to remove the link was because of the commentators last statement and I quote:

"In my opinion, Perfect Golf is better than TGC" - His Words

[psgolfer]

I actually thought it was a forum about all sims. Removing the post, no problem. Banning someone, problem.

Me too, it's crazy that the insecurity of one individual can have that much impact on how he runs a business. Yes, I understand that the owner of the SIM version of TGC also owns that site. But wheres the impartiality?

Here's another post I saw that was deleted:

Golf sim season is almost over (for most it'll end around March 30th) why would anyone spend $1,000 on TGC when other options will come out before the start of next sim season?

To me it would make sense to wait till October, then if nothing else is available, make your decision.

[m3w]

Whether the video was advertising or not (which I don't think it was), the least they could have done is delete it and give me a warning. Nope. They just deleted it and banned me without any sort of explanation. Not even a PM to say that I was banned. I just couldn't log in anymore.

[psgolfer]

I agree m3w, it's very petty to just ban you and delete your account. IMHO, it wasn't advertising, it was just a guy reporting at the PGA show showing 2 different sim options for Skytrak.

Even if it was advertising, definitely, delete the link and give you a warning.

[goatbarn]

maybe we all come back to ottawa for an unbias forum discussion on golf simulation!

[psgolfer]

I think that would be great. I want it to be clear here seeing as I can state facts without being banned (hopefully):

Luv2golf/psgolfer = same person - true statement

1. I am not a golf sim re-seller (I have a Home Theatre Company and we install golf sims - maybe 2 a year).
2. I have NEVER tried to sell GC2's with PG TO ANYONE. I am a player and enjoy playing. That's it.
3. I bashed Skytrak because of their slow progress. I had enough, so I share my experience.

Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

[Kilroy]

I think that would be great. I want it to be clear here seeing as I can state facts without being banned (hopefully):

3. I bashed Skytrak because they led me on when I was a re-seller. Same as they continue to do now. I had enough, so I share my experience.

Just an FYI, bashing (ranting against) companies here is not permitted for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is that sometimes a company has a rogue employee causing problems, or policies can change, rectifying a problem. Internet searches will reveal bashing and damage a companies reputation long after a problem is resolved. We advocate taking such things up with the management of the company or if that fails take legal action against them. Ranting on a forum to 'get even' is not the way to handle things.

[goatbarn]

I just assumed that someone was allowed to offer their opinion. And if the company wanted to right their "name", they'd respond accordingly. Not so much censor that individual because their opinion didn't sell product.

Idk, I guess I see it both ways, cuz here, Ottawa Golf Forum does not want another company coming in and saying your website is slandering our product...blah blah, legal blah blah.

Free speech doens't exist, but I just don't like the fact that most users on that site are unaware of site ownership and what that may mean for open/honest talk.

[psgolfer]

Just an FYI, bashing (ranting against) companies here is not permitted for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is that sometimes a company has a rogue employee causing problems, or policies can change, rectifying a problem. Internet searches will reveal bashing and damage a companies reputation long after a problem is resolved. We advocate taking such things up with the management of the company or if that fails take legal action against them. Ranting on a forum to 'get even' is not the way to handle things.

Yes I agree, bashing wasn't the correct term I meant to state. I also have stated here and elsewhere that skytrak is a great launch monitor. I had no issues with the actual product. I would consider owning one again if there wasn't so much else surrounding it.

Goatbarn, I appreciate your honesty in this area and hope that it doesn't get you banned elsewhere. At the end of the day as a previous skytrak owner and a current GC2 owner, I'd like to be able to share my opinion on the products.

[goatbarn]

In the end we all just want to play sim golf!

[psgolfer]

Yes, your right, I'm having a great time playing and that's all I've ever wanted to do!!!!!

[mthunt]

Luv2golf/psgolfer = same person - true statement

I'm only curious but why have two sepperate handles?

[psgolfer]

Hey mthunt, be happy to answer that question. I was psgolfer on the other forum for almost a year, played the optishot tour, messaged with guys there and all was good. Then I started selling skytraks and the forum owner didn't like that I was shipping them overseas (I don't know why, I can make some assumptions, but you'd have to ask him). So there were a few posts and I challenged him questioning his position and learned at that time, if you argue with warden you go to the hole (and never come out).

I was still a skytrak owner (till beginning of December was when I sold mine and not 6 months ago as I was mentioned), so I wanted to keep on what was going on. I asked Seth to post on other forums, but he was sticking with just one. So in June (after 2 month hiatus), I joined as luv2golf. Feel free to ask bubba22, I asked him if there was a way to lift the ban for psgolfer, he said there was no way. I was never trying to hide my identity, I just wasn't allowed who I usually am.

It wasn't until E6 demo came out in October that I registered as psgolfer for the cloud competitions and posted scores and challenges that the owner figured out who I was - hence his statement that - I'll be back (mimicking Arnie in terminator).

Without going on any further, that's the back story, any questions feel free to ask. I will not sign up on the other forum, I'm actually glad this has happened, it just shows who we are. It's nice to share the history, and that's all it is, history.

So that being said............LET'S PLAY GOLF!!!!!!

[Kilroy]

Yes I agree, bashing wasn't the correct term I meant to state. I also have stated here and elsewhere that skytrak is a great launch monitor. I had no issues with the actual product.

No worries, it's all good. Negative reports about a sim product, software, golf club or conditions at a local course are permitted here. Bashing a company one is pissed at, even for perfectly valid reasons, is not. That is our policy, just to be clear.

[double_bogey]

m3w and luv (sorry used to calling you that psgolfer), thanks for explaining what happened. Yes it is rather harsh they banned you guys just like that - so I decided to join this forum too =)

And thanks for posting the link to the YouTube video (as I was unable to view it before it got deleted in the other forum and I was unable to find it in YouTube myself). I actually thought it is pretty useful video seeing both PG and TGC played on ST back-to-back in one video (gives you better sense that the PG graphics are indeed more like a real golf course than TGC as others have mentioned). I was leaning towards PG already (given feedback from others lucky enough to play its demo on GC2) and if this guy's speculation is right that PG will be at $400 then it will be a no-brainer for me.

Again miss you guys in the other forum. But hopefully more will join us on this forum as I find the insights from other users very helpful esp when having to deal w the headaches of ST at times.