142 or 111?

[g8r]

What should the record books say?

"Tiger Woods over a period of 142 tournaments made 111 consecutive cuts in 111 tournaments in which cuts were made".

Come on, its a record. He made the cut 142 times in a row (its not his fault the cut included the entire tournament in some events). What is the PGA's definiition of making a cut? If its the field that plays the final two rounds, then Tiger holds the record.

You can't asterix a record AFTER the fact (lets take a closer look and see how we can make him NOT have the record). Notice how this wasn't an issue over the past year and a half when he made barely the cut on his final hole with a 20 foot putt "impressively continue his cut streak of XXX". No one mentioned the those "no-cut" tournaments before, so why start now.

So, who hold the record for most cuts made when Thursday's rain delay caused half the field to finish on Friday morning? Any other records that Tiger holds that we can find a loop hole to give it back to someone else?

[EDSGOLF]

I guess my sarcastic eye roll smily did not have the effect I was hoping for So, for the record EDS, what do you think the number should be???

I personally think it should be 142.......if I go to Chapters and look it up in the Record Book (where is this record book???, hehe) it will say 142

[Andru]

Thread's about Tiger it has hit page two. Ahh Nike is getting back every penny they've spent.

[jbrace]

I personally think it should be 142.......if I go to Chapters and look it up in the Record Book (where is this record book???, hehe) it will say 142

B'ah! Conformity! Take a stance man!

[Andru]

I believe he has taken a stance. He won't be sucked into the anti-tiger vortex that has consumed this board.

[dbleber]

There's an anti-Tiger vortex? I hope the line isn't to long to get in!!!
On the above topic, it is to difficult to compare the two directly since there is the whole "no cut events" and "no cut at all" issue. I do think the record should be 142, even though I wish it was someone elses name in front of it!
Denny

[jbrace]

I believe he has taken a stance. He won't be sucked into the anti-tiger vortex that has consumed this board.

Yes Andru, as usual it's all about anti-Tigerism. Heaven forbid people have a somewhat contoversial discussion about a record that happens to be held by Tiger. If it were any other player, my opinion on this would be the same. I can't speak for everyone else though. I'll let them speak for themselves...

[HiG4s]

If Tiger got a check from his play,, not appearance money, he was "in the money/made the cut" whether there was an official cut or not. So how many of those 31 did Tiger finish "in the money"?I can't vote until I know the answer to that.

[el tigre]

Some info on the streak from the Golf Magazine site:

The streak is defined by the PGA Tour as most consecutive events without missing the cut. It's NOT most consecutive cuts made. That is why no-cut events are included in the streak. Tiger's streak included 31 no-cut events -- in which he had 26 top-10 finishes with 10 wins -- so the number of events in his streak that had cuts was 111. Byron Nelson's streak of 113 in the 1940s also included some no-cut events, in particular the Masters, which didn't have a cut until 1957. Nelson played in three Masters (1941, '42, and '46) during his streak.

Another thing to consider is the circumstances surrounding the "other" end of the cut streak in 1998, which is also outlined in the article (my bolding):

The first event in Tiger's streak was the 1998 Buick Invitational, played Feb. 5-8 that year, and the last event was the 2005 Wachovia Championship, played May 5-8, so his streak lasted 7 years and 3 months. The PGA Tour considers him to have missed the cut in the 1998 AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am, the event that began the week before the 1998 Buick Invitational, because he withdrew when the tournament's final round was postponed until August. The only other time he missed the cut in his professional career was at the 1997 Bell Canadian Open.

Frankly, I think there is a stronger case that the REAL streak should be extended rather than shortened.

[Andru]

Some info on the streak from the Golf Magazine site:

The streak is defined by the PGA Tour as most consecutive events without missing the cut. It's NOT most consecutive cuts made. That is why no-cut events are included in the streak. Tiger's streak included 31 no-cut events -- in which he had 26 top-10 finishes with 10 wins -- so the number of events in his streak that had cuts was 111. Byron Nelson's streak of 113 in the 1940s also included some no-cut events, in particular the Masters, which didn't have a cut until 1957. Nelson played in three Masters (1941, '42, and '46) during his streak.

Another thing to consider is the circumstances surrounding the "other" end of the cut streak in 1998, which is also outlined in the article (my bolding):

The first event in Tiger's streak was the 1998 Buick Invitational, played Feb. 5-8 that year, and the last event was the 2005 Wachovia Championship, played May 5-8, so his streak lasted 7 years and 3 months. The PGA Tour considers him to have missed the cut in the 1998 AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am, the event that began the week before the 1998 Buick Invitational, because he withdrew when the tournament's final round was postponed until August. The only other time he missed the cut in his professional career was at the 1997 Bell Canadian Open.

Frankly, I think there is a stronger case that the REAL streak should be extended rather than shortened.

I love it when thefacts come out. You Rock El Tigre!!

[jbrace]

The streak is defined by the PGA Tour as most consecutive events without missing the cut

Finally, there it is in black and white. Thank you El Tigre. This, IMO, is appropriate wording for Tiger's record and it should therefore say 142. If it were up to me and I was really picky, I would have said "Most consecutive events without missing the cut where there was a cut" Now, my question is:

Will anyone here (Andru, I'm looking in your direction ) concede that Tiger did not "make 142 straight cuts"???

[mberube]

Will anyone here (Andru, I'm looking in your direction ) concede that Tiger did not "make 142 straight cuts"???

And what would that accomplish?

[72 Divots]

How did Byron have the record for cuts made if he didn't play when they had cuts?

I think that the record should only include tournaments where there is an official cut - certainly not taking naything away from what Tiger or Byron has done.

[Andru]

And what would that accomplish?

I was thinking the same thing.

[jbrace]

I was thinking the same thing.

...

That's what I thought.

[EDSGOLF]

Now, everyone all at once:

[NoBack]

Now, everyone all at once:

Woooooo Hoooooo

[Big Johnny69]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this before but I heard on the Golf Channel that Nelson's streak referred to that in his playing days to make "the cut" it meant finishing in the money. Which during most of his streak was the top 20 and at a point Nelson never finished lower than 17th for the majority of his streak. Or it was something along those lines. And as for the events Tiger competed in with no cut, well those are special invite only tournaments based usually on the money list and money is only made when the cut is made. So I would say those tournaments just saved a lot of time by "cutting" the field down to reward consistency and keep a high level of play for the weekend of their tournament. Just an opinion though.

[broken27]

I believe he has taken a stance. He won't be sucked into the anti-tiger vortex that has consumed this board.

Andru, Andru, Andru.... I was going to pass this thread over, but you pulled me in...

As the record is for "cuts not missed", Tiger's record will stand at 142, of that there is no doubt.

But let's not get paranoid and suggest there is anti-Tiger sentiment in what people are saying here. For the most part, I have not seen a single negative comment about Tiger, or his ability or his accomplishment (no matter how you look at it). I have seen people saying that Lord Byron's 113 straight money placings are a bigger relative accomplishment than 111 straight cuts made. I have heard people concede that there were mitigating circumstances allowing Lord Byron to conceivably have an easier time setting his record (war, weak fields etc...).

It seems to me that it is a select group of Tiger (you, mberube and others) who make some conspiracy or jealousy comment and get the ball rolling.

In answer to the poll question: I think it should be whatever works mathematically. From the sounds of it, that's 142. And I am a Tiger Hater.

Dan

[mberube]

Andru, Andru, Andru.... I was going to pass this thread over, but you pulled me in...

As the record is for "cuts not missed", Tiger's record will stand at 142, of that there is no doubt.

But let's not get paranoid and suggest there is anti-Tiger sentiment in what people are saying here. For the most part, I have not seen a single negative comment about Tiger, or his ability or his accomplishment (no matter how you look at it). I have seen people saying that Lord Byron's 113 straight money placings are a bigger relative accomplishment than 111 straight cuts made. I have heard people concede that there were mitigating circumstances allowing Lord Byron to conceivably have an easier time setting his record (war, weak fields etc...).

It seems to me that it is a select group of Tiger (you, mberube and others) who make some conspiracy or jealousy comment and get the ball rolling.

In answer to the poll question: I think it should be whatever works mathematically. From the sounds of it, that's 142. And I am a Tiger Hater.

Dan

The fact that Nelson played during the war and against weaker fields is not jealousy. Far from it. Check the dates for your self.

This fact was stated by Ben Hogan him self. I read it in one of his interviews but I don’t remember where. They also talked about it on the golf channel.

I respect every great accomplishment that any great player in any sport has done. No mater how dislike the athlete. Can you say the same.

[Andru]

Andru, Andru, Andru.... I was going to pass this thread over, but you pulled me in...

As the record is for "cuts not missed", Tiger's record will stand at 142, of that there is no doubt.

But let's not get paranoid and suggest there is anti-Tiger sentiment in what people are saying here. For the most part, I have not seen a single negative comment about Tiger, or his ability or his accomplishment (no matter how you look at it). I have seen people saying that Lord Byron's 113 straight money placings are a bigger relative accomplishment than 111 straight cuts made. I have heard people concede that there were mitigating circumstances allowing Lord Byron to conceivably have an easier time setting his record (war, weak fields etc...).

It seems to me that it is a select group of Tiger (you, mberube and others) who make some conspiracy or jealousy comment and get the ball rolling.

In answer to the poll question: I think it should be whatever works mathematically. From the sounds of it, that's 142. And I am a Tiger Hater.

Dan

I have no problem being called a Tiger Fan. He's the reason I started playing golf how can I not be? What's not to like. Most of his colleagues like him. Anyone I've known who has worked with him says he's genuine. IE Commercials and charity events.

Here's the question. Have you ever seen a negative thread about John Daly or Phil Mickelson?

[HiG4s]

How did Byron have the record for cuts made if he didn't play when they had cuts?

I think that the record should only include tournaments where there is an official cut - certainly not taking naything away from what Tiger or Byron has done.

OK, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it is that now, everyone that makes a cut gets a paycheck.,, Back in the Byron's day often there were no cuts, but not eveyone got a paycheck. And Byron's streak is 113 is considered the same as making the cut because he finished with a paycheck that many times in a row.

[Big Johnny69]

You are correct. Alot of Nelson's tournaments did not have cuts. But being in the money (usually top 20ish) was considered making the cut. Because by Tour standards, getting a cheque is making the cut.

[broken27]

I have no problem being called a Tiger Fan. He's the reason I started playing golf how can I not be? What's not to like. Most of his colleagues like him. Anyone I've known who has worked with him says he's genuine. IE Commercials and charity events.

Here's the question. Have you ever seen a negative thread about John Daly or Phil Mickelson?

It wasn't an affront to you for being a Tiger fan. That's really nobody's business but yours, and those you choose to affect with your admiration of the guy. Same for me and Mickelson (being a lefty, it just makes more sense). My point was that nobody has said anything negative about Tiger, and yet somehow the thread has managed to come full circle back to the same old bs.

As for negative threads about Daly or Mickelson? Well, I've posted negative comments about Daly and his athleticism, but really don't have much negative to say about Phil...

Dan

[Andru]

It wasn't an affront to you for being a Tiger fan. That's really nobody's business but yours, and those you choose to affect with your admiration of the guy. Same for me and Mickelson (being a lefty, it just makes more sense). My point was that nobody has said anything negative about Tiger, and yet somehow the thread has managed to come full circle back to the same old bs.

As for negative threads about Daly or Mickelson? Well, I've posted negative comments about Daly and his athleticism, but really don't have much negative to say about Phil...

Dan

O.K. o.k. o.k.
Just a little pin*.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick.

No hidden message. Just what's on the iPod right now.

[broken27]

O.K. o.k. o.k.
Just a little pin*.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick.

No hidden message. Just what's on the iPod right now.

Despite my little avatar, I HATE Pink Floyd...

I already feel sick.... Just because I now have that terrible song in my head.

Golf = "Good friends and a bottle of pills".

I bolded that part of the Pantera song title I felt was appropriate...

Andru, we met, and I have nothing but respect for ya. I just find it ironic when Tiger fans call us Tiger Haters out in threads where we don't post anything negative about Tiger (except for maybe challenging the merit of the record itself, which was done mainly on a "sure, it's great, but what about Lord Byron?" level....).

Cheers to ya, and if yer playing at Cloverdale on Sunday, we can discuss it further over a beer on you.... LMFAO!!!!

Dan

[LobWedge]

[Andru]

Despite my little avatar, I HATE Pink Floyd...

I already feel sick.... Just because I now have that terrible song in my head.

Golf = "Good friends and a bottle of pills".

I bolded that part of the Pantera song title I felt was appropriate...

Andru, we met, and I have nothing but respect for ya. I just find it ironic when Tiger fans call us Tiger Haters out in threads where we don't post anything negative about Tiger (except for maybe challenging the merit of the record itself, which was done mainly on a "sure, it's great, but what about Lord Byron?" level....).

Cheers to ya, and if yer playing at Cloverdale on Sunday, we can discuss it further over a beer on you.... LMFAO!!!!

Dan

I'm not surprised you hate pink floyd. They're popular. have great commercial success, and have no criminal records.

As far as Tiger. I've given up on trying to understand why you or anyone would hate him. The truth is I believe if it was Phil Mickelson there wouldn't be a debate on the merit of the record. That's where the anti-tiger comments come from.

Wish I was going to Cloverdale. I've heard the greens are rolling quite nice.

We can discuss this further people( ok I ) tend to be more civil in person.

[broken27]

I'm not surprised you hate pink floyd. They're popular. have great commercial success, and have no criminal records.

As far as Tiger. I've given up on trying to understand why you or anyone would hate him. The truth is I believe if it was Phil Mickelson there wouldn't be a debate on the merit of the record. That's where the anti-tiger comments come from.

Wish I was going to Cloverdale. I've heard the greens are rolling quite nice.

We can discuss this further people( ok I ) tend to be more civil in person.

I don't "idolize" people, so I have no idea why you say things about popularity, commercial success or criminal records. Besides which, statements like that are assumptive of the "fact" that I condone the antithesis (sp?) thereof. I mentioned Pantera, and other than the former guitarist being shot to death in the face during a concert, I have no reason to suspect they were involved in anything resulting in a criminal record. Nor the contrary, however.... My basis for appreciation comes in the music...

Tiger? Well, I don't hate his game, there's no way I could, and still play. But as an individual, I don't much care for him, or at least his persona. I'm sure that given the chance to know him personally I'd find out both good and bad stuff about him, and blah blah blah, but I don't generally START discussions along the lover/hater lines...

We argue a lot, but I found you to be a very amicable person when we met at Calabogie, and quite contrary to your forum personality. Similarly, you mentioned the same about me not matching up with my smack....

Isn't it funny how we can "argue" here and find nothing but common ground in person?

Cheers. Na Zdravy!

Dan

[Kilroy]

I believe if it was Phil Mickelson there wouldn't be a debate on the merit of the record.

I doubt that. I think there would certainly be a debate.