Define slow play...

[Johnyc]

A bit ridiculous... I play once a week with my father and uncles who are in their late 60s and shoot mid to high 90s with a few "cheats and mulligans" and there is no way that we can play in 3.5hrs and none of us are slow or time wasters...

Then something is wrong. You mentioned above you don't take practice swings, etc and are the fastest player you know.....if 3.5 hours is ridiculous, then I humbly suggest that something is wrong.

[rezadue]

What he said!

I hate slow golf. We play at 7am or shortly after and never have issues walking with 4 guys in 3.5 hours. We play some late afternoons and its a complete crapshoot however I have no problem calling the pro shop and telling marshals to let the slow group ahead of us that we will be playing through on the next tee. It often comes down to the fact that some people out there have no concept of pace or spacing and are in their own little bubble. They just need to be yelled at.

[bentgrass]

For those who think 3.5 hrs or under is ridiculous or impossible. Have you ever tried to play faster with nobody in front of you? Maybe trying to finish before dark or to beat the rain? If not, you would be surprised at how well you might play and just how fast you can go. Think of the time it would take to walk the course and double it. If you never play fast just for the fun of it, you will have trouble picking up / keeping up the pace on a busy course.

[jeffc]

Funny thing is when we are playing, I never feel like we are playing fast. Efficient is probably a better word. We are not blazing fast golfers by any sense and take out time to line up putts, take practice swings, sometimes grab a dog or whatever in between 9's, search for the odd ball, and have the odd blow-up hole. I've played Greensmere Legacy with "John" in 2.5 hours and regularly play eQuinelle in under with a foursome 4 if there is no one holding us up. We're generally high 70's to low 90's in our group.

[orangeTANG]

All depends on the course. My assumption is that not too many foursomes can finish Greensmere legacy in 3.5 hours even with the course to themselves. Its an 8.5km walk up an down hills. And those that say they can need to remember that not everyone is out to get finished as quickly as they can, some are out enjoy themselves (although I agree there is a limit).

I absolutely hate slow play, in fact I probably spend a little too much time worrying about the group behind us than I should considering the speed our group normally plays. What I see more and more at courses are 4somes, followed by a couple 2somes followed by another 4some. Because the pace is set by the lead 4some, the 2somes will naturally catch up pretty quickly hitting half the shots. If the last 4some plays even a bit faster than the first, then all of a sudden it appears there's a log jam when in reality, its the smaller group in the middle that makes it appear that way.

Some courses have clocks on the course that show what time you should be on each tee box, I think thats a great way to judge pace. A few weeks ago while playing Greensmere Premiere @8am we felt the round was going really slow, that we were constantly riding the 4some in front of us, we were all starting to get a little bit frustrated. We ended up finishing the front 9 in 1:45, where I consider anything under 2 hours with a 4some as reasonable. We then realized the group in front of us wasn't going too slow, we were going too fast. We dialed it back a notch, enjoyed the back 9 and finished in 3:45 just in time for lunch.

[golfisforfun]

Then something is wrong. You mentioned above you don't take practice swings, etc and are the fastest player you know.....if 3.5 hours is ridiculous, then I humbly suggest that something is wrong.

Correct, I am about a 3 handicap, and my last game where I shot 70 would have taken me a grand total of 70 swings! No practice swings necessary thanks... But it doesn't matter how fast I play when I am golfing with 3 guys who are almost 70 who take 25-30 more shots than me and take a little more time at each shot. Nobody should ever feel rushed on a course. We play ready golf.

It is pretty easy to see why golfers get frustrated on the course when some people think because their buddies can play in 3.5 hours everyone else should do the same...

[Johnyc]

Correct, I am about a 3 handicap, and my last game where I shot 70 would have taken me a grand total of 70 swings! No practice swings necessary thanks... But it doesn't matter how fast I play when I am golfing with 3 guys who are almost 70 who take 25-30 more shots than me and take a little more time at each shot. Nobody should ever feel rushed on a course. We play ready golf.

It is pretty easy to see why golfers get frustrated on the course when some people think because their buddies can play in 3.5 hours everyone else should do the same...

Not everyone plays in 3.5 hours. I get that. I don't think that's fast, but to each their own. I belong to a club where rounds don't often exceed 4 hours. i played with two older members this morning, neither of whom broke 55 on the front 9 and we finished in 100 min. In any event, good on you.....if I was shooting 70, no practice swings and waiting 4.5 hours to finish I'd have a stroke. You are a better person than I. Kindly, jc

[stevek]

Anything over 4.5 hours at prime time on Legacy or Loch March (or 4:15 on Premiere) or the like would be the cut-off to slow play. Anything over 3:45 early morning on these courses would be the border between ok and slow.

[justsomeguy]

Just to clarify, I certainly know that 3.5 hours for a foursome is possible under ideal conditions. However, ideal conditions rarely exist. My expectation is that a round of golf should take 4 hours, but I am prepared to be on the course for 4:30 on weekend mornings from May to September.

[Gobble_It]

Played behind Steve Yzerman's brother at Le Sorcier one evening last week. Boy was his foursome slow....Took us almost 4h30 on a quiet course with carts. These guys were looking for balls in the woods on almost every hole on the back nine. Yzerman shanked a tee shot on a front nine par 3 and let his iron fly in disgust....what a clown. The Starter told me before the round he had quite the attitude and was throwing clubs there a week before.

Yzerman himself or his brother ?. Who cares if it's his brother

[dbleber]

I think it's very subjective as you can tell from the responses. I now play a lot at 0630 and 1830, by myself in a cart. I do 9 in the morning in 45 - 1hr or 18 in the afternoon in 2 hours max. When I play with buddies during normal golf times everything seems slow! IMO anything over 4.5 hours is slow or if a group has a hole and a half in front of them and your waiting they might not be slow but are slowing you down and should let you play through. I played two weeks ago and got stuck behind a tournament, wish they would have told me at time of booking, 5:15hrs to play. That was slow but the people in front of use seemed obilivious and if I'd asked them probably wouldn't have found it slow.

[golfisforfun]

Is it reasonable to expect that a foursome of golfers just out for fun who take 100+shots each might take closer to 4.5 hours compared to a foursome of experienced golfers who take50-60 less shots and spend a lot less time looking for balls?

Just because you are waiting on every tee doesn't mean the group ahead is slow. Maybe you are fast???

[GarthM]

Can you name a course that plays over 4;30 hrs ?

Le Maitre almost every day of the week.....:-(

[Marcos]

Le Maitre almost every day of the week.....:-(

Surprised to hear that a private course has slow play.

[jvincent]

Surprised to hear that a private course has slow play.

It happens. I was stuck behind a foursome of elderly ladies earlier this summer. It took them almost 3 hours to finish the front nine. Thankfully they quit after that.

[John]

Is it reasonable to expect that a foursome of golfers just out for fun who take 100+shots each might take closer to 4.5 hours compared to a foursome of experienced golfers who take50-60 less shots and spend a lot less time looking for balls?

Just because you are waiting on every tee doesn't mean the group ahead is slow. Maybe you are fast???

The point being made though is that if that group is off pace they need to catch up or let the faster group play through.

[BogeyGolf]

Like others have said....we play at 6:30am on weekends and our foursome is done in 3hrs...during the week in the afternoons, it is usually 4.5 hrs, which I personally find slow...I find the more I have to wait, the crappier I play...

[Pine View]

Slow play can be an issue at any course. The key is what do the courses do to try and move things along. Keep in mind there is no magic bullet solution that fits every situation.

We have recently installed some pace of play clocks. This should assist golfers and marshalls by providing a general guideline as to how far along each group should be at any given time.

[golfisforfun]

Glad to see a course chime in on this one...
What is the expected pace of play at Pineview?

[Pine View]

The "expected" pace of play can vary on any given day. Lots of rounds are played in less than 4 hours.

The clocks are being set for 4:15 minutes which is ample time to play 18 holes. We have a pretty standard layout. most tee blocks are adjacent to the previous greens and there are no long walks between holes.

We also installed a new bridge on #12 last year to speed up play.

[BogeyGolf]

Take yesterday afternoon for example at the Meadows, we were playing and waiting on each shot on the front nine, we noticed the 4 some 2 groups ahead were 2 full holes behind the group in front of them....The Marshalls drive around the course all the time there, and should have mentioned to them to pick up the pace as they are 2 holes behind....

Just little things can help, leave you cart near the side that takes you to the next tee box, be ready to hit you shot, after someone else has hit their shot... just little things that add up that would make the pace quicker....

[Wknd_Warrior]

4:15 sounds about right for general public @ Pine View. 4 hours is an rational round there for players that stay out of trouble and get around ok. I don't mind being out there over 4 hours, it's the 2 and a half hour 9s that kill me. When it's not that you wait on every shot, but you wait a full 10 minutes on every other shot, it's just too much. Rounds like that usually blow the 4 and a half mark easy.

Completely unimpeded I think many foursomes of average skill level would play in under 4. You have to factor in at least 15 minutes of waiting here and there. I also hate when you have all of 20 seconds at the turn before the Marshals start dogging you, like why have a hot dog stand if you aren't allowed the time to order one lol.

I always used to figure 4:30 all in was an acceptable round, even if I played faster myself. All in all it depends on the course. Anything close to 3 and a half is starting to feel rushed to me, maybe if I was a better player?

[moneymaker]

Clocks are ridiculous - they all need to go in the trash. Just look at the differences in opinion what a "normal" round should.

Your position on the course is just like driving in traffic. You should be a safe distance from the guy in front of you.

That is to say, no matter if you are alone or 4, you need to keep up to the group in front of you, no matter if they are 1 or 4.

If every single group did that, there would never be slow play.

If there is no one in front of you, but groups behind waiting, then you are the traffic - no two ways about it.

Those need to step aside or skip ahead.

It's all about self-awareness - usually those causing the issue haven't got enough to help things along unfortunately.

I play alone often early (because I can fast) I can walk 18 in under 2 easily, nearer 90 min if I play well.

We were 4 the other night on an open private club, walkers from the tips in 2:55.

2 of them were in the 90's - score is never the issue. Ready golf & self-awareness always is.

[dbleber]

Yesterday was a good example of how different slow play can be perceived. 4 walking, us 4 carting, and 4 groups of 2 carting behind us. We let the first 2 go through on number 3 because they were moving along and we were playing for money which can slow things down. By 9 we were waiting on the same 2 some and the 2 behind us were waiting on us. Checked our time and we were on pace for 3:45. The groups behind us probably felt it was slow. We found it to be fine with minimal wait. This is where people have to use common sense, if the course or the players who are waiting would have made 4somes the course would have been fine. We finished just under 4 hours on a Saturday and I made 8 bucks!

[dq2003]

That is to say, no matter if you are alone or 4, you need to keep up to the group in front of you, no matter if they are 1 or 4.

Am I reading that you think a 4some should be able to keep up to a 2some (even worse, a single player)?

[dq2003]

Yesterday was a good example of how different slow play can be perceived. 4 walking, us 4 carting, and 4 groups of 2 carting behind us. We let the first 2 go through on number 3 because they were moving along and we were playing for money which can slow things down. By 9 we were waiting on the same 2 some and the 2 behind us were waiting on us. Checked our time and we were on pace for 3:45. The groups behind us probably felt it was slow. We found it to be fine with minimal wait. This is where people have to use common sense, if the course or the players who are waiting would have made 4somes the course would have been fine. We finished just under 4 hours on a Saturday and I made 8 bucks!

I agree.
Under busy conditions, courses should make 2somes into 4somes.
Nothing worse for slow play than having 4 twosomes in front of you.

[Guzman]

100% Agree twosomes into foursomes is the solution, Slow play is more than 4.5 hrs in a par 72, I walk all the time and the longest course around here is 8 miles and I have played in 4.5 hrs or less

I agree.
Under busy conditions, courses should make 2somes into 4somes.
Nothing worse for slow play than having 4 twosomes in front of you.

[jvincent]

I'm going to keep beating this horse until it is dead.

Twosome into foursomes is NOT the solution to pace of play. All it does is keep the course full. Slow play means that there is an open hole(s) in front of the slow group. That group could have any number of players in it.

[justsomeguy]

I agree with jvincent - slow play is caused by slow players.

Putting twosomes together - whether on the first tee or during the round - does not really do much for pace of play. All it does is move the tee time ahead for the second twosome, so they will finish 8 minutes earlier then if they had not been put together. Potentially each foursome behind them could also finish 8 minutes earlier too - assuming that they are ready to tee off 8 minutes before their scheduled tee time or are able to make up the time while playing. Even if you had 4 consecutive twosomes, the most time you could save would be 16 minutes. I don't think 16 minutes is the difference between a fast and a slow round.

[big mac]

OK OK---slow play is caused by slow players !!! BUT---if courses print on their score cards "keep up with the group ahead etc etc) then it is up to the course management to enforce this and to educate players on the etiquette of the game ???????????????

Personally I have no solution to the problem except to play during the week and to stay away from tournament courses and RELAX