Define slow play...

[golfisforfun]

I keep seeing posts about slow play and the frustration is causes...

But does anyone really have a true definition of "slow play"?

Is anything more than 4 hour rounds slow play? or 4:15? or 4:30? I am sure that most courses would be very happy with 4h30m rounds, but I am betting many people consider that "slow play".

Is it "slow play" if you are waiting on every tee? Not necessarily in my opinion. I am the fastest player you will ever find, no warm up swings, no practice motions and I never go look for balls. And my playing partners are pretty quick also, which means we are often waiting on tee boxes, but that doesn't mean anybody ahead of us is slow.

I think courses are happy with 2h15m 9s, and if you play at that pace, then nobody has the right to accuse you of being slow. That is a very comfortable pace of play.

And if I look over and see the group ahead of me walking to the next tee and there is a group there already, don't get mad at me if I play a second ball on a shot or two, it won't make the round go any slower.

If you want rounds played in under 4hrs, tee off at 6am and have a nice jog.

Now if groups are headed for 5 hr rounds, well, that is slow and that needs to be dealt with by the marshalls, but that is if and only if the course warns golfers of pace of play policies.

There is no rule that says I can't re-do a putt, or a chip during my round. There is nothing saying I can't hit an extra tee shot if I want to...

I expect 4h30m rounds when I go play and most often I am right in that range.

How many of you think 4h30m is "slow play"?

[Johnyc]

I think 4:30 is slow. With 3 young children at home, every minute is precious. I play in the morning or in the late afternoon in 3:15 to 3:30 always walking, and carrying my bag 95% of the time. I've played resort courses that have a longer transition between holes and those rounds can be much longer. Key, IMO, is waiting on the group ahead. We use 11 min t intervals at our course and you don't really step on the group ahead. Everyone seems on the same page and is knowledgable enough to know if they are off the pace. We don't have a Marshall, nor do we need one. The slowest round I played last year was 4:15 in club championship.

[Johnyc]

I don't believe you can redo a putt or chip in stroke play. In a match, yes

[spuds]

played in 3:30 today,Gatineau walking but it was a 715 tee off,lots of bugs and very wet from dew.Man is that rough there deadly!

[justsomeguy]

I think 4:30 is borderline. Anything more than that is definitely slow.

I often tee off at 9:30 am on weekends and see the first group of the day walking down the 18th fairway. So that is basically a 3.5 hour pace for decent players when there is nobody in front of them. So with good tee time intervals and proper etiquette from golfers, foursomes should be able to finish in 4 hours without being rushed.

Unfortunately, most courses still have 8-minute tee time intervals and proper etiquette is not always in practice.

[chucky]

I don't wear a watch on the golf course,slow play to me means there is a gap of one hole between groups the group that is behind should recognize this and pick it up or let the group behind play through regardless of the time. If there is a group in front of you and you are not lagging behind then it is up to you how many balls you want to play with, we are all not professionals and some might not even take it that seriously. The question is how do you educate the golfer who just doesn't care how many people they holding up.

[golfisforfun]

I would agree... 3.5 hour for "decent" players with nobody in front of them...
So let's say a foursome of guys who shoot 90-105 and are in their mid 60s... We give them each an extra 15 minutes and that takes you to 4.5 hours... That 15 minutes is for added shots, more time looking for balls in the rough, more time looking for a ball or two in the woods, and maybe just a slightly slower walking pace...

I think it is easy to see why people get frustrated with "slow play" if 4hrs is considered the proper pace of play... I don't think it is realistic for a public course with golfers of all abilities.

How long does it take to walk from point A to point B and then take your next shot? 2 minutes? Ok, so player XYZ who takes 30 shots more than me will need an extra 60 minutes to play? I know it doesn't work exactly like that, but you have to account for 4 golfers taking 100 shots vs 4 golfers taking 90 shots or 80 shots...

[jmwhite]

Played behind Steve Yzerman's brother at Le Sorcier one evening last week. Boy was his foursome slow....Took us almost 4h30 on a quiet course with carts. These guys were looking for balls in the woods on almost every hole on the back nine. Yzerman shanked a tee shot on a front nine par 3 and let his iron fly in disgust....what a clown. The Starter told me before the round he had quite the attitude and was throwing clubs there a week before.

[jvincent]

But does anyone really have a true definition of "slow play"?

If the course has a defined pace of play, then anything slower than that is slow.

Some courses will be faster than other because of the length of the course, distance between tees, etc so you cannot have one time that fits all courses.

So, let's assume the course management has decided that the pace of play for 18 holes is 4:05 minutes. If there is a group that is in front of you, but on pace, then you really don't have anything to complain about. Sure, you COULD play faster than if they weren't there, but they are not, but definition SLOW. They are slower than you, that is all.

[Marcos]

Over 4:30 is slow,period.

[chucky]

Just so I understand if I'm behind a group and they are two holes behind and we are waiting on every shot but they are ON TIME that is OK ? Please help me understand because I don't care about TIME on the golf course I care about pace of play.

[downhillslider]

Get out of the way, let us through and then continue your "on time "pace of play witch was designed for the majority of golfers who can't break 95 on a good day. That way everyone is happy, But wait, that would require some common sense and a knowledge of golf etiquette 101.

This is where the problem lies.

I'm afraid it is what it is and will always be.

[Chieflongtee]

Played behind Steve Yzerman's brother at Le Sorcier one evening last week. Boy was his foursome slow....Took us almost 4h30 on a quiet course with carts. These guys were looking for balls in the woods on almost every hole on the back nine. Yzerman shanked a tee shot on a front nine par 3 and let his iron fly in disgust....what a clown. The Starter told me before the round he had quite the attitude and was throwing clubs there a week before.

Have not played there in a while but at the time I thought there should have been more red stakes. Take a stroke drop a ball and be on your way.

[SnazzyD]

I'm generally OK with waiting a bit as long as people are more or less matching pace. What really irks me is when you get a bunch of hackers who slow things down by searching 5 minutes for their balls every other hole. If the green ahead is clear and they are artificially holding everyone else back....that's not cool.

I've done my small part by skipping all practice swings (doesn't look nearly as bad if I end up topping it...) and limiting lost ball searches to 1 minute tops...and that's only if the ball looked findable to begin with.

[jvincent]

Over 4:30 is slow,period.

On some courses yes, on others no.

[jvincent]

Just so I understand if I'm behind a group and they are two holes behind and we are waiting on every shot but they are ON TIME that is OK ? Please help me understand because I don't care about TIME on the golf course I care about pace of play.

Is it OK from a pace of play perspective, yes. The group ahead of you is playing at the pace required by the golf course management so you can't all of a sudden change the rules on them.

From an etiquette point of view should they let you play through if you are clearly faster than them? Yes, but that is a different subject.

[Chieflongtee]

If everybody played by the rules i.e 5 minutes for a lost ball and finish every putt I would say that 4h30 minutes is on pace
Public courses are public courses and you'll unfortunately run into slow players from time to time.

[Marcos]

On some courses yes, on others no.

Can you name a course that plays over 4;30 hrs ?

[Chieflongtee]

It will take you a lot longer to play Gatineau, Mont Cascades, Edelweiss if you're walking....

[Marcos]

It will take you a lot longer to play Gatineau, Mont Cascades, Edelweiss if you're walking....

Sorry Andre, play all those within 4;30 hours carrying.

[Chieflongtee]

Sorry Andre, play all those within 4;30 hours carrying.

When not busy during the week. If the tee sheet is pretty packed and mostly all foursomes not sure you will finish in 4H30.

Lots more walking than Champlain or Chateau Cartier for example. I'd be curious to know the walking distance between Gatineau and Champlain.

I always try to get an early tee time on the weekends to avoid slow play.
If I tee off around 8or a little before we usually get in pretty fast. If I tee off at 10 then it's another story

[Marcos]

When not busy during the week. If the tee sheet is pretty packed and mostly all foursomes not sure you will finish in 4H30.

Lots more walking than Champlain or Chateau Cartier for example. I'd be curious to know the walking distance between Gatineau and Champlain.

Even on weekends, Edelweiss and Gatineau have been able to play inside 4;30 with a foursome. I agree that Gatineau and Edelweiss are a good walk compared to a lot of other courses. Some times slow play happens and i deal with it in my own way. Its all good my friend. Today was an exception at Gatineau no biggy.

[Chieflongtee]

Of course it's all good Marc. I compare public courses to highways. I stay away during rush hours

[jvincent]

Can you name a course that plays over 4;30 hrs ?

Bethpage Black.

My point is that you have to factor in conditions, time of day, what management wants, etc.

[Chieflongtee]

Bethpage Black.

My point is that you have to factor in conditions, time of day, what management wants, etc.

And the talent or lack of in front of you

[John]

I hate slow golf. We play at 7am or shortly after and never have issues walking with 4 guys in 3.5 hours. We play some late afternoons and its a complete crapshoot however I have no problem calling the pro shop and telling marshals to let the slow group ahead of us that we will be playing through on the next tee. It often comes down to the fact that some people out there have no concept of pace or spacing and are in their own little bubble. They just need to be yelled at.

[Johnyc]

I hate slow golf. We play at 7am or shortly after and never have issues walking with 4 guys in 3.5 hours. We play some late afternoons and its a complete crapshoot however I have no problem calling the pro shop and telling marshals to let the slow group ahead of us that we will be playing through on the next tee. It often comes down to the fact that some people out there have no concept of pace or spacing and are in their own little bubble. They just need to be yelled at.

I completely agree with this. In all honesty 3.5 hours while walking is pretty much spot on and should be the rule, not the exception

[HoganWoods]

I don't care what anyone thinks is too fast or slow as long as they allow a faster group through if there are gaps in front of them. I'm also in the camp that plays super early or on weekdays nowadays, I don't play Saturdays/Sundays unless I have no choice.

[Leftymoose]

I try to play early as well..I worked at a course for several years and it's inevitable that if you tee off during prime time hours (especially on the weekends), you'll most likely be slower than you would like. There's always gonna be one group who slows it all down for everyone behind them, just like that car or red light that starts the traffic jam we all curse at on the Queensway

[golfisforfun]

I completely agree with this. In all honesty 3.5 hours while walking is pretty much spot on and should be the rule, not the exception

A bit ridiculous... I play once a week with my father and uncles who are in their late 60s and shoot mid to high 90s with a few "cheats and mulligans" and there is no way that we can play in 3.5hrs and none of us are slow or time wasters...