Sloooooooooooooooooooow Play

[rezadue]

Let me start by saying that * is one of my favorite courses in the city. Love the layout, and the challenge. And pace of play has never been an issue there. Not until Last Thursday.

We (walking threesome) teed off at 3:30. By the end of the first hole we were waiting on the 2some in the cart in front of us.

By the third hole we had us on the tee, the 2some in the cart in front of us reachable, and in the fairway and a 4some of ladies in a cart in front of them on the same hole.

By the 4th hole we were on the tee, the 4some of ladies had let the 2some in the cart to play through, both groups were within out tee shots, and another group had just gotten off the green.

When we approached the marshall there, he told us we were a few minutes ahead of time, so all was according to plan!

On the 4th tee we asked a single member who was behind us all the way to join us. He did.

The front 9 went by slowly and at the turn the member who had had enough left. Also 2 of the ladies in the 4some left.

From the 10th on, the 2 ladies in front of us started playing 2 balls each. Pace of play got even slower.

By the time we got to 12, extreme frustration had set in. We were standing on the short par 4 tee waiting for the ladies in front of us who had hit many shots to be only 150 yards past the tee. One of the ladies hit her next shot which only went 40 yards (was that way most of the day) at a 45 degree angle with respect to target line, but still in the fairway!!! She took another ball out of her pocket and dropped it so she can hit yet another ball.

At that point, I yelled out COME ON! Yelled, because it is not possible to catch someone attention from a 150 yards by whispering or talking at normal voice levels. She picked up her ball and the continued playing the hole with one ball each...

At the next tee she asked if I yelled at hey. I said I did, and she said well, it is slow in front of us. Which it was. But still, that does not mean you should further slow the round down by playing two balls each.....

I told her I was going to call the proshop and get a marshall to see if they can pick up the pace of play. To which she responded " As if that is going to do anythings" - Prophetic statement.....

I called the proshop 5 times, no answer. Left a message. No call back. Even called the catering area and no answer!!!!

On the 14th tee we could see 7 groups within eye sight. Including us, there were 4 groups alone on 14. 2some after 2some after 2some.

I called back and left a message for the general manager explaining the situation and voicing my extreme frustration at the situation and pace of play and asked he call me back. NEVER GOT A CALL BACK.....

By the 14th green we found a marshall who asked if I had yelled at the ladies inn front of us. I explained the pace situation and told them about the ladies further making it worse by playing two balls each. My playing partners confirmed my account.

Marshall responded that he did not know that the ladies played two balls each, but did not go back to talk to them. He also said he asked a couple of 2somes to join to bring the pace of play into a more reasonable rate, but they did not want to! Aren't marshalls there to enforce pace of play?????

Thursday was the slowest round I have ever played and and what is even more disappointing was the lack of response from *** that day or at least a courtesy phone call another day.

Too bad.....

[cleek]

similar post by SteveK on slow play, I too have had the experience this year. Seems like courses are willing to turn a blind eye and let the customers set the pace and rules vs the pro shop, starter or marshalls. My biggest pet peeve is allowing multiple groups of twosomes out on the course. Pair up it helps pace. I often get paired with new people and almost always have a good time.

Playing two balls is just plain ignorant if there is a group behind you waiting.

Nothing worse than getting frustrated by slow play and then hitting a bad shot, your emotions spiral after that happens a couple of times.

[jeffc]

It was painful for sure. We had 2 singles join up with us as well, one on the front who quit after 9 and another on the back. So we were 4 walking. And waited on every shot.

[jvincent]

My biggest pet peeve is allowing multiple groups of twosomes out on the course. Pair up it helps pace.

Twosomes will always play faster than foursomes so pairing up isn't the answer.

Assuming everyone teed off at their scheduled time, then there must be a group out on the course that is slowing play down. It only takes one slow group to backup the entire course.

[rezadue]

Either way, it is up to the course to remind people of pace of play, get them to move along, stop people from playing 2 balls at a time, and address golfer's concerns.....

None of which was done here.

Twosomes will always play faster than foursomes so pairing up isn't the answer.

Assuming everyone teed off at their scheduled time, then there must be a group out on the course that is slowing play down. It only takes one slow group to backup the entire course.

[jvincent]

No disagreement that the course is responsible for the pace of play.

That said, it sounds like if the ladies played faster, it just means you would have been waiting on the next tee sooner, but ultimately not finished the round any faster.

[cleek]

Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
My biggest pet peeve is allowing multiple groups of twosomes out on the course. Pair up it helps pace.
Twosomes will always play faster than foursomes so pairing up isn't the answer.

if you have four people on a par 3 do you think it is faster to have two play the hole at a time vs. four?

[Marcos]

Walked off after 9 at *** this morning.Very very slow. No marshall to be found. Foursome ahead looking for balls in the woods and water every freekin shot !!!!!

[BARGEGOLF]

Teed off at 9am yesterday on Greensmere Legacy. Played in under 4 hours at a green fee of $40 all in.

Greens freshly cut and speedy. Some tee-boxes a little shaggy but that would be nit-picking.

[jvincent]

Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
My biggest pet peeve is allowing multiple groups of twosomes out on the course. Pair up it helps pace.
Twosomes will always play faster than foursomes so pairing up isn't the answer.

if you have four people on a par 3 do you think it is faster to have two play the hole at a time vs. four?

If nobody is holding up the.first twosome, they should be gone once you are ready to hit.

Once the course is backlogged merging groups will make feel faster because you have to wait longer for your group to hit but you'll still end up behind the slow guys.

[big mac]

IT IS THE COURSES FAULT FOR SLOW PLAY !!!!! It is ridiculous the number of times that courses allow 2somes to play--allow 2 ball players and do not have the sense to make people move. As I have said before the course management doers not want to offend their customers BUT when no one shows up to play---they may question that decision. Waiting on the tee a couple of minutes OK But 5 to 10 minutes is Ludacris ( gee is that spelt right ?)

There are quick players--but if they would relax a little they might enjoy the game more AND instead of playing as a couple---join up and get a decent rhythm going----most courses are 4:15--four average plus players should have no problem with that.

I always check my watch while playing---if I am in the 15 minute window per hole I won't say anything but if I am an hour and just finished the 3rd hole---- then something is amiss somewhere--------especially if you are paying 75.00 a round.

[3Jack]

Either way, it is up to the course to remind people of pace of play, get them to move along, stop people from playing 2 balls at a time, and address golfer's concerns.....

None of which was done here.

Reza -- how long did the round end up taking?

[jvincent]

IT IS THE COURSES FAULT FOR SLOW PLAY !!!!! It is ridiculous the number of times that courses allow 2somes to play--allow 2 ball players and do not have the sense to make people move.

I'll say it again, twosomes don't make the course slow.

If anything, a course full of twosomes should play FASTER than a course full of foursomes.

It is easy to find out who the slow group on the course is, they are the ones with an open hole in front of them.

[THUNDAH]

Walked off after 9 at Gatineau this morning.Very very slow. No marshall to be found. Foursome ahead looking for balls in the woods and water every freekin shot !!!!!

What time did you tee-off? Our foursome was done in 4 hours and 10 minutes. Teed-off at 10.

[rezadue]

It seems like my post has been censored. I am not sure exactly why this is as:

- I stated that the course is one of my favorites
- I have only stated facts about what happened
- I have stated my opinion of the situation and expectation

There was nothing second hand. Nothing derogatory. No hearsay!

As I know this course has an account on this site, would it not be more constructive if the name was left in to allow them to respond in anyway they see fit? Would it not help in potentially improving the experience for myself and/or other golfers in the future?

It is sad to see a perfectly reasonable post censored and no reasonable reason given:

The post that you created in the following thread has been edited
Post: Let me start by saying that * is one of my favorite......
Thread: Sloooooooooooooooooooow Play
Reason:

[Marcos]

What time did you tee-off? Our foursome was done in 4 hours and 10 minutes. Teed-off at 10.

Tee time was 9;22 am Dan. Just one of those days.

[Chieflongtee]

IT IS THE COURSES FAULT FOR SLOW PLAY they may question that decision. Waiting on the tee a couple of minutes OK But 5 to 10 minutes is Ludacris ( gee is that spelt right ?)

.

Nope

Ludacris is a rapper

Ludacris is ludicrous

[jeffc]

It seems like my post has been censored. I am not sure exactly why this is as:

- I stated that the course is one of my favorites
- I have only stated facts about what happened
- I have stated my opinion of the situation and expectation

There was nothing second hand. Nothing derogatory. No hearsay!

As I know this course has an account on this site, would it not be more constructive if the name was left in to allow them to respond in anyway they see fit? Would it not help in potentially improving the experience for myself and/or other golfers in the future?

It is sad to see a perfectly reasonable post censored and no reasonable reason given:

The post that you created in the following thread has been edited
Post: Let me start by saying that * is one of my favorite......
Thread: Sloooooooooooooooooooow Play
Reason:

What a joke. It'd be nice if you were told the rule you broke.

[Kilroy]

It seems like my post has been censored. I am not sure exactly why this is

Rant or "I had a bad day" threads are against forum rules and technically could be simply deleted, however they are allowed if they don't identify the course. This is to prevent golfers from using the forum to name and shame courses as has been done on several occasions in the past. Not saying this thread was posted to do that but all such threads are treated equally.
Threads on course conditions are ok to name the courses involved as long as the post is respectful and factual.

The policy has been in place for years and does not favor advertisers over non-advertisers. It applies to all facilities. Is not going to change, nor is it open for debate.

This policy is well known to forum users here and Rezza, you have been here for a rather long time (11 years). I did not think a reason would be required in this case as the edit only removed the name of the course. In the future, rather than calling me out in the open forum you could ask in PM if you feel you need an explanation, however, a quick review of the Forum Rules would have answered your question. Thanks.

[rezadue]

Dan, I see that you have mentioned "It is not open for debate" and while I get that, My post was neither a RANT nor a I HAD A BAD DAY. In my humble opinion it is perfectly ok to review facts in the hopes that golfers can be heard by courses, and adjustments/clarifications can be made accordingly, specially since the the course in questions posts here. That is why I asked for a public clarification.

But it is your site and your world. Thus endeth my observations about any course here.

Cheers,

[Kilroy]

Rezza, I respect your opinion. In my opinion your post is a typical, but respectfully crafted, bad day post. It documents several negative experiences you had during your round.
As with golf rulings they may not always seem fair given circumstances but they have to be equitable and apply across the board. The rule is there for a reason. If I allow exceptions nobody will respect the rule in the future.

[Leftymoose]

Now I want to know what course it was, for real

[3Jack]

New studies are starting to reveal that slow play isn't the fault of players, regardless of ability. Certainly players shouldn't play two balls while you wait on the tee, and 'ready golf' helps keep us all sane, but if there is nowhere to go, there's no where to go.

The growing sentiment is that the golf course, how it's routed, and in what order 'easy' and 'difficult' holes come that impact slow play more than any other factor.

TLDR - easy holes play faster. Follow an easy hole with a hard hole and slow play is the result. Course operators need to find ways to slow players down on the easier holes by making those holes harder, and by speeding players up on hard holes...

http://golfcanada.ca/blogs/article/g...esponsibility/

[jeffc]

New studies are starting to reveal that slow play isn't the fault of players, regardless of ability. Certainly players shouldn't play two balls while you wait on the tee, and 'ready golf' helps keep us all sane, but if there is nowhere to go, there's no where to go.

The growing sentiment is that the golf course, how it's routed, and in what order 'easy' and 'difficult' holes come that impact slow play more than any other factor.

TLDR - easy holes play faster. Follow an easy hole with a hard hole and slow play is the result. Course operators need to find ways to slow players down on the easier holes by making those holes harder, and by speeding players up on hard holes...

http://golfcanada.ca/blogs/article/g...esponsibility/

The course in question is not an easy course. Lots of water, fescue, tough greens can lead to a lot of looking for balls and general overall pain. I'd agree and wonder how a 25-30 cap would get any enjoyment out of playing a course like that and shooting 100+

[Leftymoose]

I also agree that the way a course is designed can also lead to slow play. I can think of several examples where the distance between tee boxes is ridiculous. One course in particular, has several of these. This is where a group walking can easily lose ground on a group in carts

[BC MIST]

I also agree that the way a course is designed can also lead to slow play. I can think of several examples where the distance between tee boxes is ridiculous. One course in particular, has several of these. This is where a group walking can easily lose ground on a group in carts

Greensmere Legacy is, perhaps, an example of what you described above. Four holes where the walk to the next tee is significant, and four heart break hills to climb. However, our 8:30, Saturday morning foursome plays in 4:00 with no one in front and seldom slower than 4:15 if there is. We have the occasional hunt for lost balls and too many time wasting three putts, but we play at this reasonable pace on a difficult golf course because we walk quickly between shots. IMO, this is the solution to much of the slow play problem. Too many golfers just dawdle long and are not ready to play when it is their turn.

[Chieflongtee]

Greensmere Legacy is, perhaps, an example of what you described above. Four holes where the walk to the next tee is significant, and four heart break hills to climb. However, our 8:30, Saturday morning foursome plays in 4:00 with no one in front and seldom slower than 4:15 if there is. We have the occasional hunt for lost balls and too many time wasting three putts, but we play at this reasonable pace on a difficult golf course because we walk quickly between shots. IMO, this is the solution to much of the slow play problem. Too many golfers just dawdle long and are not ready to play when it is their turn.

You forgot to mention that most of you I would thing shoot in the low 80's high 70's. Now how fast could a foursome that plays in the high 80's and low 90's get around under the same conditions?

[THUNDAH]

How is post number 8 different from post number 1 in this thread?

[Kilroy]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Marcos]

My post has been edited so no more comments from me.