Ball on sprinkler and ball on cart path

["Richard"]

Hello, yes I have another question

I'm a little confused. The other day my ball landed on a sprinkler head on a par 3 left of the green but past the flag so I was allowed to move it. It was my understanding I could drop it within two club lengths of where my ball was but no closer to the hole but since I was already past the hole I dropped it on the green. Is this allowed? The ball stayed within 2 club lengths of the sprinkler but was on the green now instead of off the green to the left in the longer grass.

Under Rule 20-2c, a dropped ball must be re-dropped if it rolls more than two club-lengths

And I'm also looking at

20-2. Dropping and Re-Dropping
(iii) rolls onto and comes to rest on a putting green;

So I'm guessing based on the rules I posted that you can't drop a ball from off the green and have it land on the green... period!!


But I'm not sure so still need help. What is the exact procedure with dropping a ball on a cart path?

[HiG4s]

Off a sprinkler head it is, I believe, an abnormal ground condition, rule 25-1, and you get one club length no penalty..

["Richard"]

but can that one club length no closer to the hole be on the green?

[el tigre]

Hello, yes I have another question

I'm a little confused. The other day my ball landed on a sprinkler head on a par 3 left of the green but past the flag so I was allowed to move it. It was my understanding I could drop it within two club lengths of where my ball was but no closer to the hole but since I was already past the hole I dropped it on the green. Is this allowed? The ball stayed within 2 club lengths of the sprinkler but was on the green now instead of off the green to the left in the longer grass.

A sprinkler head would be considered an immovable obstruction. You would be entitled to relief under Rule 24-2, which allows a drop within one club length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief.

Since you were not on the putting green, neither the nearest point of relief nor the spot where you dropped the ball can be on the putting green. The fact is that the "nearest point of relief" from a sprinkler head is going to be a couple of inches from one side of the sprinkler head. I fail to see the significance of being "already past the hole". It makes no difference whether you are 20 feet past the hole, in front of the hole, left of the hole or right of the hole - you still can't drop within 20 feet of the hole.

[Gary Hill]

Hello, yes I have another question

I'm a little confused. The other day my ball landed on a sprinkler head on a par 3 left of the green but past the flag so I was allowed to move it. It was my understanding I could drop it within two club lengths of where my ball was but no closer to the hole but since I was already past the hole I dropped it on the green. Is this allowed? The ball stayed within 2 club lengths of the sprinkler but was on the green now instead of off the green to the left in the longer grass.

Under Rule 20-2c, a dropped ball must be re-dropped if it rolls more than two club-lengths

And I'm also looking at

20-2. Dropping and Re-Dropping
(iii) rolls onto and comes to rest on a putting green;

So I'm guessing based on the rules I posted that you can't drop a ball from off the green and have it land on the green... period!!


But I'm not sure so still need help. What is the exact procedure with dropping a ball on a cart path?

A sprinkler and a cart path are immovable obstructions. You will find your answer under Rule 24-2.

[spidey]

It was my understanding I could drop it within two club lengths of where my ball was but no closer to the hole but since I was already past the hole I dropped it on the green. Is this allowed?

Looks like Gary missed this little gem.

Thotho... closer to the hole is not relative to the tee, it's relative to where your ball is *NOW*. So if your ball or swing is affected by an immovable obstruction, you must determine the nearest point of relief, not nearer to the flagstick than the ball already is. Then you can drop within one clublength of that, but not closer to the flagstick than the point you determined.

Imagine you put down a tee to mark your nearest point of relief. Draw a circle around that point that is the radius of one club (any club). Now, half (approximately) of that circle is closer to the hole than the other half. You can only drop in the half of the circle that's furthest away from the hole.

Got it?

[LobWedge]

Check these out thotho. Very informative. There's one about immovable obstructions.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/animations/index.html

["Richard"]

"Imagine you put down a tee to mark your nearest point of relief. Draw a circle around that point that is the radius of one club (any club). Now, half (approximately) of that circle is closer to the hole than the other half. You can only drop in the half of the circle that's furthest away from the hole."

Ok I get it, but what if the part of that cirle that is farther from the hole is on the green? Because that was the case with my ball. The nearest point of relief was the was obviously an inch away from the sprinkler so if I pull out my driver and make a circle around that point... Then I would have been able to drop the ball on the green. Are you allowed to drop a ball on the green? I didn't think it would happen ever again but the same thing happened today on the same hole!!! I couldn't beleive it.

[el tigre]

Ok I get it, but what if the part of that cirle that is farther from the hole is on the green? Because that was the case with my ball. The nearest point of relief was the was obviously an inch away from the sprinkler so if I pull out my driver and make a circle around that point... Then I would have been able to drop the ball on the green. Are you allowed to drop a ball on the green?

No, you are not allowed to drop a ball on the green because your ball was not originally on the green. Even if it was on the green, you would place the ball rather than drop it.

Generally speaking, if you are in a bunker then your free relief must be in the bunker. If you are on the putting green then your free relief is on the putting green. If you are "through the green" (i.e., anywhere else on the course except in a hazard or on the teeing ground), then your free relief must be "through the green".

["Richard"]

Ok thanks, so if I'm in the rough on the side of the fairway... the drop due to relief cant be on the fairway then? Basically you can't improve your lie? Can it get worse?

[LobWedge]

Ok thanks, so if I'm in the rough on the side of the fairway... the drop due to relief cant be on the fairway then? Basically you can't improve your lie? Can it get worse?

Yes it can (to questions 1 & 3). The following is from the Rules & Decisions book:

24-2b/8 Dropping from Rough to Fairway in Obtaining Relief from Obstruction

Q. A player whose ball lies in the rough close to the fairway is entitled to relief from an immovable obstruction. In obtaining relief under Rule 24-2b(i), may the player drop the ball on the fairway?

A. Yes. There is no distinction in the Rules between fairway and rough; both are covered by the term “through the green.”

[Gary Hill]

Looks like Gary missed this little gem.

Thotho... closer to the hole is not relative to the tee, it's relative to where your ball is *NOW*. So if your ball or swing is affected by an immovable obstruction, you must determine the nearest point of relief, not nearer to the flagstick than the ball already is. Then you can drop within one clublength of that, but not closer to the flagstick than the point you determined.

Imagine you put down a tee to mark your nearest point of relief. Draw a circle around that point that is the radius of one club (any club). Now, half (approximately) of that circle is closer to the hole than the other half. You can only drop in the half of the circle that's furthest away from the hole.

Got it?

Nearest point of relief is cannot be closer to the hole. It has nothing to do with the flagstick.

[Gary Hill]

No, you are not allowed to drop a ball on the green because your ball was not originally on the green. Even if it was on the green, you would place the ball rather than drop it.

Generally speaking, if you are in a bunker then your free relief must be in the bunker. If you are on the putting green then your free relief is on the putting green. If you are "through the green" (i.e., anywhere else on the course except in a hazard or on the teeing ground), then your free relief must be "through the green".

Free relief from a ball on the putting green is not necessarily on the putting green.

[Gary Hill]

Ok thanks, so if I'm in the rough on the side of the fairway... the drop due to relief cant be on the fairway then? Basically you can't improve your lie? Can it get worse?

I already told you the answer lies in Rule 24-2. Tell me what part of Rule 24-2 you dont understand and I will try to explain it.

["Richard"]

(i) Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green.


Got it, thanks gary.