Casual Water Relief

[BC MIST]

A golfer's ball comes to rest in a puddle, (casual water) and he elects to take relief. Marking the nearest point and the club length relief with tees, he drops the ball properly. His lie is poor so he then claims that he is still in casual water because when he fairly takes his stance, water can be seen by his shoes.

His intent in dropping where he did was solely to get a good lie. After taking "relief" the first time, can he now keep taking relief? Presumably the answer is, "Yes," as he is still in casual water.

Let's say after his first drop he likes his lie, but as he takes his stance a fellow competitor sees water by his shoes. The player hits the ball. Can the FC now claim that he did not take full relief from the casual water, moved his ball, and should now be penalized for playing from a wrong place?

[Kilroy]

Can the FC now claim that he did not take full relief from the casual water, moved his ball, and should now be penalized for playing from a wrong place?

I do think so, but if there is no reasonable full relief, maximum available relief would be used. Gary?

[Gary Hill]

A golfer's ball comes to rest in a puddle, (casual water) and he elects to take relief. Marking the nearest point and the club length relief with tees, he drops the ball properly. His lie is poor so he then claims that he is still in casual water because when he fairly takes his stance, water can be seen by his shoes.

His intent in dropping where he did was solely to get a good lie. After taking "relief" the first time, can he now keep taking relief? Presumably the answer is, "Yes," as he is still in casual water.

Let's say after his first drop he likes his lie, but as he takes his stance a fellow competitor sees water by his shoes. The player hits the ball. Can the FC now claim that he did not take full relief from the casual water, moved his ball, and should now be penalized for playing from a wrong place?

You get into trouble if you go too fast through the relief procedure steps. If you comply with the steps, you cannot get into trouble.

Lets go slowly.

"A golfer's ball comes to rest in a puddle"
1. You can play the ball as it lies.
2. You can take COMPLETE relief under Rule 25.

"he elects to take relief"
Rule 25-1. Abnormal Ground Conditions
When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition.

The ball must be dropped on a dry spot.

"he drops the ball properly. he is still in casual water because when he fairly takes his stance, water can be seen by his shoes."
Rule 20-2c. Dropping and Re-Dropping (When to Re-Drop)
A dropped ball must be re-dropped without penalty if it:
(v) rolls to and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground conditions).

He has NOT properly dropped the ball because the ball is still in casual water AFTER the drop and roll.
The ball must be re-dropped.
If the ball when re-dropped rolls into casual water, it must be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped.
We know from the above description of relief under Rule 25-1 that this spot is dry.

His intent in dropping where he did was solely to get a good lie. After taking "relief" the first time, can he now keep taking relief?
No. He can't keep invoking Rule 25-1. He has to properly drop the ball after invoking Rule 25-1 the first time.

Let's say after his first drop he likes his lie, but as he takes his stance a fellow competitor sees water by his shoes. The player hits the ball. Can the FC now claim that he did not take full relief from the casual water, moved his ball, and should now be penalized for playing from a wrong place?
Correct. The player has played from a wrong place.

[EDSGOLF]

Relief may be in the eye of the beholder. I think if there is casual water, he can take relief as many times until he finds a dry spot. But before dropping the ball, the golfer should test the ground to check for casual water first, if the golfer determines there is no causal water then hi drop should be ok.

[Gary Hill]

I do think so, but if there is no reasonable full relief, maximum available relief would be used. Gary?

Maximum available relief is not available under Rule 25-1 unless your ball is in a bunker or on a putting green.

[Gary Hill]

Relief may be in the eye of the beholder. I think if there is casual water, he can take relief as many times until he finds a dry spot. But before dropping the ball, the golfer should test the ground to check for casual water first, if the golfer determines there is no causal water then hi drop should be ok.

Relief is not in the eye of the beholder. There either is visible water or there is not.

You cannot invoke Rule 25-1 more than once before you make a stroke at the ball as I have already explained.

Maybe we are arguing symantics. You may have to "look" many times for a suitable relief point, but you may only "take" relief once.

[Kilroy]

Maximum available relief is not available under Rule 25-1 unless your ball is in a bunker or on a putting green.

So we all have to go home when the fairways are saturated.

This is a rule that denies the reality of everyday life. Maximum available relief in a drenched fairway is all you can do.

[Gary Hill]

So we all have to go home when the fairways are saturated.

This is a rule that denies the reality of everyday life. Maximum available relief in a drenched fairway is all you can do.

Relief from casual water is an option. You can play the ball as it lies.
If you cannot find a spot on the golf course where there is no casual water, then you should be at home.
If you want to play on completely drenched fairways, then don't invoke Rule 25-1.
Bottom line - You DON'T get to move the ball around where you feel like it when you play golf.

[Kilroy]

Relief from casual water is an option. You can play the ball as it lies.

If the puddle is 5" deep, I cannot play it as it lies. I may find some turf nearby that is much better (playable) but water still gathers around my shoes. Sorry, that is not "moving the ball aound where you feel like" but I do understand. Seems silly, but I'll just have to go home.

[Gary Hill]

If the puddle is 5" deep, I cannot play it as it lies. I may find some turf nearby that is much better (playable) but water still gathers around my shoes. Sorry, that is not "moving the ball aound where you feel like" but I do understand. Seems silly, but I'll just have to go home.

Is there dry turf 150 yards behind you?
Or 2 fairways over?
Or on the 1st teeing ground?
That is where the Rules say you have to go.

Playing from beside the 5" deep puddle out of 1/4" casual water IS move the ball around where you feel like.

[el tigre]

So we all have to go home when the fairways are saturated.

The "nearest point of relief" is defined as "the point on the course, nearest to where the ball lies, which is not nearer the hole and at which, if the ball were so positioned, no interference (as defined) would exist."

Since the definition for interference from an abnormal ground condition (casual water) includes interference with the player's stance, then I would understand that if the "dry" spot was so small that you would still be standing in casual water to make a stroke, then you have not yet found the "nearest point of relief" to measure a club length from. This means that the "nearest point of relief" may be many, many yards away on a saturated golf course.

Also, just because your ball is in the fairway doesn't mean the "nearest point of relief" must be in the fairway. This is especially relevant at this time of year because the rough is often drier than the fairways - therefore it is very likely that the "nearest point of relief" will be found there.

[EDSGOLF]

Gone home to soak my feet in the bathtub

[twister]

If the nearest point of relief is a cart path, do you drop on the cart path? If the ball remains on the cart path or you are standing on the cart path to play your shot do you then take relief from the cart path?

[Gary Hill]

If the nearest point of relief is a cart path, do you drop on the cart path? If the ball remains on the cart path or you are standing on the cart path to play your shot do you then take relief from the cart path?

Yes and Yes.

[jvincent]

Yes and Yes.

Are you REQUIRED to take relief from the path?

Just wondering since the original drop was to take relief from the casual water and not the path and there is no requirement to take relief from a path under normal conditions.

[Big_duck]

If the nearest point of relief is a cart path, do you drop on the cart path? If the ball remains on the cart path or you are standing on the cart path to play your shot do you then take relief from the cart path?

You may take relief from the cart path but you don't have to take relief from the cart path it is a different abnormal ground condition. Unless I am wrong.

[spidey]

A cart path is not an abnormal ground condition, it is an obstruction.

[Big_duck]

A cart path is not an abnormal ground condition, it is an obstruction.

Even more on point then.