NEW SkyTrak Launch Monitor

[bubba22]

This is my first post to this forum - my apologies for the length. Thank you for all the good information here, I find it extremely useful.

The 2 features I find very attractive about the SkyTrak are portability and the simplicity of an iPad app. I am looking forward to hopefully more sophisticated PC and SIM applications though, but realize this may significantly add to the total cost. For a novice like myself a simple app is appealing though.

From a budget/ pricepoint I am (or was) also interested in the Golfachiever II or GA-Xs systems - knowing these are quite different from the SkyTrak. Unfortunately I cannot find much information or reviews on them, and hope someone here might be able to help. GA now offers an all inclusive package that includes video analysis and simulator software (45+ courses) for $3K. If you use your own mat/ "platform set" the price for the package could come down to $1.7K (e-mail quote from sales representative in US). I believe this is much lower than what GA was selling for years ago.

My question is, does this lower price point and included software package turn the Golfachiever into a viable SkyTrak competitor? In theory it offers a lot more for less - it offers both ball and club tracking data and I think putting and chipping is possible. And the included software package looks interesting.

Personally, I would stay away from the Golfacheiver. Costly, breaks down a lot etc. Do a search on it here.

[DFDubb]

I currently have the GA II with SIM platform/software. I've also owned a GC2 in the past. I "downgraded" when I moved onto the golf course and started really only using the SIM when friends were over. I can't speak for the skytrak obviously, but can answer any questions you have. I've never had a problem with it or experienced any "break downs." The lasers do have to be adjusted from time to time, but after you do it once, it can be done in less than 10 mins. I can't remember what I paid for mine, around 2300 I think which included everything and 10 golf courses. I bought it used obviously. IMO you get a lot for your money. Club data is deadly accurate and ball data is reliable and accurate enough. It estimates spin, but launch angle, ball speed, etc...is measured. The only time I feel the ball data is a little off is if you were to crank out a massive hook/slice it doesn't penalize you enough. I'm a low single digit hcp so that isn't really a problem I have. Putting is a joke, but I feel that about all SIM putting. Soft chips seem good, but I probably am not a good judge as I feel anything inside of 50 yards on the SIM is more like a video game and less like golf.

Let me know if you have any questions, I'm probably one of the few on here that have any time on it.

[BHB1]

Anyone from Europe pulled the trigger? I would like to order it but had a bad experience with shipping a Vector Pro (its predecessor?) from Canada. The Vector lacked the CE sign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking) and a grumpy customs officer refused the shipment. "Only the CE sign will guarantee you it won't blow up once you connect it to a power supply". SkyTrak's chat service pointed me to their hotline in the UK. The hotline in the UK is basically clueless - they didn't know the device even exists.

Hi, I am new to this forum and live in Germany, near Hamburg.

I was interested in the SkyTrak Launch Monitor, but as there is an abysmal lack of hard facts on their website, no phone number and I cannot contact them by eMail (eMails bounce or are delayed for three days, etc.) I contacted Sky Trak via their On-Line Chat.

I had a lot of questions, so for the benefit of European potential customers, here is some of the info from the chat session:

I registered my interest in the Sky Trak Launch Monitor some weeks ago and received a US$500 discount code eMail a couple of days ago. However, it now seems that this discount code applies only to residents of the USA (or perhaps North America). Why did they send me a discount code if they won't let me use it?? I asked if there would be a similar discount for Europeans when the device launched here and was told there probably would be some discount. However, I won't hold my breath over that one, as I don't see why they would offer one, on a product already established in the USA.

The US Sky Trak is not CE Certified, so would be illegal to import it into the European Union. As Left72 has already experienced, the German Zoll/Customs are particularly officious and open, or at least X-Ray, almost all packages entering Germany. So if you catch the Customs guy on a bad or even a good day, it is very likely that the US version of the Sky Trak would not be allowed to enter the European Union market place.

The Chat Representative was clearly unaware of the existence of the CE Certification/Mark, but said he would pass that onto the development team and the UK distributor.

The Sky Trak unit is NOT available in Europe yet and there is no info on when it will be available, nor what price it will sell for. Assuming a US pre-launch price of US$1495, that would likely translate into Euro1500 (after adding European Import Duty and MWSt/VAT at around 19%, plus a bit for delivery costs). Or €2000 without the Pre-Launch discount.

The Chat Rep said that the Sky Trak is compatible with the iPad Air and NOT compatible with the iPad4. (This is at odds with what Bubba22 has reported on this thread. The chat rep was clearly reading from a script, so how accurate that is, is anyone's guess). That for me is a deal breaker as I bought an iPad4 just to use with the SkyPro Swing Analyser. I am singularly unimpressed with Apple IOS system as it is so dumbed down that even the most simple of tasks are near impossible. It is good for Kindle and the Skypro app works very well. The Apple iPad is in my opinion, unfit for purpose in so far that it is too fragile to take outside the house. I broke the Lighning plug off inside the socket and had to pay Euro300 for a replacement machine. The original was less than a year old! A simple micro USB socket would be far superior to Apple's proprietary hopeless Lightning connector. OK, so I am not an Apple Fan Boy!

There is a subscription fee for SkyTrak Basic Practice & SkyTrak Game Improvement Package of US$99/annum. I for one am not interested in paying probably Euro100/annum after forking out Euro2000 for the Sky Trak hardware. So that would be another deal breaker for me if that is applied to European pricing. There should be no subscription fee on the basic launch monitor without simulator.

There will presumably be an Android version release in due course, but as they do all their software development in house it takes much longer, though they are more responsive to customers requests for features. This is true of the SkyPro where the developers visit the WRX forum and give feed back, but we are still waiting for the Android app for the SkyPro, which was anticipated in this summer. The work entailed has clearly been far greater than anticipated.

I would have liked to use the Sky Trak in my basement for winter practice, but unfortunately the ceiling height is only 2.24m so I cannot swing a golf club there. My use of the Sky Trak Launch Monitor would be limited to the driving range and perhaps in the garden hitting balls into a net. I use the SkyPro to see my swing characteristics, but also need to see the ball flight. Ball flight is impossible to see with a net, so the Sky Trak would be useful.

So overall rather disappointed with the non availability of the Pre-Launch discount and unknown delays in the European launch date, pricing, etc. but against that, perhaps other launch monitor manufacturers will announce products before the Sky Trak is finally brought to market in the European Union.

BHB1

[BHB1]

Re the subscription charge above, it is not clear if this applies to just the basic launch monitor. The Chat Rep wrote:

"Yes, There is a subscription fee for SkyTrak Basic Practice & SkyTrak Game Improvement Package" (US$99/annum).

I had read that as two separate options, but it seems that this is for the Advanced Game Improvement package with Magazine Subscription, Preferential Tee Time Booking on selected North American Courses, Gift Pack of Golf Balls, etc. plus some more useful stuff like customisation of environmental conditions in the app, etc. He directed me to a web page here:

https://shop.skygolf.com/p-1679-skyt...t-package.aspx

I will try and see if I can download the app and have a play with it.

The other serious issue is compatibility with the iPad. Chat Rep says iPad only. Bubba22 here has reported iPad4 will also work, so it would be good to get definitive clarification on this. Otherwise wait a year or more for an Android version of the app to be released.

BHB1

[11bravo]

Uhghh..if this thing is tied to sky caddie with a subscription fee that will be very disappointing...

[wbond]

Uhghh..if this thing is tied to sky caddie with a subscription fee that will be very disappointing...

I asked the question today to a live chat rep about the game improvement package and whether or not you have to pay for this every year. Here is the chat session.

Marc Gerardo: Hello! Thank you for chatting. One moment while I review your pre-chat survey.
me: HI, I am looking at purchasing a skytrak but i have a question on the subscriptions. Is this a one time purchase for the game improvement package or do you have to pay this yearly?
Marc Gerardo: This is the link sir for you to check all the info about the SkyTrak
Marc Gerardo: https://shop.skygolf...op-skytrak.aspx
Marc Gerardo: that membership will last a year sir
me: I am specifically asking about the game improvement package. Do you have to pay every year to use this?
Marc Gerardo: yes

[northgolf]

Bad software choices and subscription fees on top, what's next?

The only way the subscription fee works is if the $100/year includes sim software. Repeatedly paying $100 for a range package won't fly. I think they want to kill this product before it even gets off the ground.

[Nodeurs]

well, the delay for Europe might be a good thing...

[TorchRedRob]

Still looks pretty good to me. I assume they will include courses in the future. If not, it is still much cheaper than anything out there that measures the ball. Even paying $100/yr, it would take another 45 years on top of the purchase price until I reach the cost of a gc2.

[BHB1]

It would be better if they left out all the dross like the Golf Magazine Subscription, Box Groove Preferential Tee Time Booking Scheme, 'Free' Golf Balls (delivery extra charge), the Sky Caddie Mobile App and the My Golf Rewards.com scheme. Then provide the useful customisable features free. But I doubt these will do that as they list the dross items as a bonus.

BHB1

[trumb1mj]

I seem to be in the minority but I definitely prefer the iOS direction that SkyTrak is taking and I do NOT own a supported device currently. If eventually I can take my iPhone 5 and run the simulation software, well that's just sweet.

[BHB1]

I seem to be in the minority but I definitely prefer the iOS direction that SkyTrak is taking and I do NOT own a supported device currently. If eventually I can take my iPhone 5 and run the simulation software, well that's just sweet.

I understand that IOS is much easier to programme in, as it doesn't have the complication of different skins that Samsung, HTC, LG and other Android device manufacturers add. Even iPhone cases, etc. were easier, because there was, until the iPhone 6 max, only one size.

There is another consideration in that Apple fan boys are considered to be more affluent (or to be more willing to pay for apps, etc./or perhaps have more money than sense), than the great unwashed masses who use Android or the other minor operating platforms!

Personally, the iPad is my first and almost certainly my last Apple product purchase, because I prefer form & funtionality over style, plus in my opinion, Apple stuff is greatly overpriced. Repairs are incredibly expensive and they don't provide the option of an SD Card slot, thereby forcing you to buy Apple memory at exorbitant prices. The Lightning connector is another joke. Proprietary, easily damaged and the optional card reader is crippled so you cannot transfer anything other than pictures and videos via the cable and then only one way.

Even transferring PDF files to the iPad can be a major hassle, as Apple seem to have crippled the use of Google eMail (arch enemy) to do this properly, though it is possible using some other eMail providers!

But because of the easier programming within the IOS system, it seems inevitable that apps will initially be written in IOS, rather than Android. I can't help thinking that this approach must be costing such companies a huge market share of the numerically superior Android users, who are frustrated with the sometimes long delay in bringing out the app in their operating system.

BHB1

[CatMan]

Have they decided to work with any simulation packages like E6 etccc....

[mayassa]

If anyone wants my code pm me

[TorchRedRob]

Personally, the iPad is my first and almost certainly my last Apple product purchase
BHB1

Agreed. My plan is to pick up a used iPad Air, use it with the SkyTrak until the Android or PC application arrives (hopefully), and then sell it.

[syhlif32]

$1,500 for an accurate LM sounded great. For that price I wanted one!

Jan 2013 SkyPro was on the PGA show. The software Apple only but Android version coming soon! Guess it still is.
The whole thing with subscription is a complete turn off for me. Do not mind paying for real upgrades but not this.

What I really do not understand is that Bubba22, Zmax and I assume others have tested the LM and still after the pre-order has started there are still not anything that looks like a user/ tester review!
Only real info is the post from CPA how it compared to Trackman. Which wasn't real great but none the less not explained by SkyPro.

Really hope the Skytrack turns to be a good unit but for now I will also not make use of my pre-order code.

[trumb1mj]

There is another consideration in that Apple fan boys are considered to be more affluent (or to be more willing to pay for apps, etc./or perhaps have more money than sense), than the great unwashed masses who use Android or the other minor operating platforms!

Apple and Android have approximately the same market share but what Apple has that Android doesn't is control over their hardware. If much of the expensive processing of the images during simulation is done on the iOS device, it makes a lot of sense that certain hardware would not be supported and why stepping into Android would significantly complicate things.

I think it's important to also look at the demographics of each market share. If 90% of Android users are under 21 years old, is it a good idea to write an Android app for a $2k device? I have no idea how that breaks out but I'd guess their marketing and management teams do.

It's a bit crazy to dumb down SkyTrak's decision making process to "it's easier to write code" or "I don't like Apple products so the masses must not like them either".

[DFDubb]

Its one thing to get ball data on a basic app, but none of these devices (Apple or android) have the processing power to run full simulation (which seems most here are waiting for), so the point is rather moot.

[bkcorwin]

Maybe its just around here, but every pro I know who uses a tablet for instruction runs an ipad of some sort for video. I've never seen a pro use an android tablet as an instruction tool. So from my limited sample, I can understand why they went ipad.

[BHB1]

Maybe its just around here, but every pro I know who uses a tablet for instruction runs an ipad of some sort for video. I've never seen a pro use an android tablet as an instruction tool. So from my limited sample, I can understand why they went ipad.

Two Pros at our club. The older one (not old!) is more into technology and uses the SCOPE system for fixed instruction. However, he occasionally uses an older iPad or iPhone when he wishes to be mobile. He also uses a SwingByte for club fitting. The younger Pro uses the double high speed video camera 'SCOPE' system. He doesn't use a tablet or phone camera as far as I know. Surprisingly, I haven't seen many Pros using phone cameras or tablets as much as I would have expected.

BHB1

[BHB1]

Apple and Android have approximately the same market share but what Apple has that Android doesn't is control over their hardware. If much of the expensive processing of the images during simulation is done on the iOS device, it makes a lot of sense that certain hardware would not be supported and why stepping into Android would significantly complicate things.

I think it's important to also look at the demographics of each market share. If 90% of Android users are under 21 years old, is it a good idea to write an Android app for a $2k device? I have no idea how that breaks out but I'd guess their marketing and management teams do.

It's a bit crazy to dumb down SkyTrak's decision making process to "it's easier to write code" or "I don't like Apple products so the masses must not like them either".

Sorry a bit late with this post as the website was not loading properly, but OK now.

I cannot agree that Apple and Android have approximately the same market share:

http://www.businessinsider.com/iphon...t-share-2014-5

This article 31 May 2014, predates the iPhone 6, but in Q4/2013, Android had a market share of 78% of all worldwide users, versus Apple's 18%. Hardly approximately the same share. The dominance of Android is predicted to increase further.

Yes, there may be an argument that older users are more affluent and will shell out for a US$2000 launch monitor. As I said, Apple users are considered to be more affluent, but I see plenty of teenagers sporting iPhones and similarly plenty of older affluent people choosing Android. If a youth with affluent parents wanted a $2k launch monitor, I think many parents would buy the device if it improved their off spring's golf (particularly if it reduced the time spent on Play Stations, etc). irrespective of whether the platform was IOS or Android.

I have a cousin who has his own software programming company. As a side line he programmes in IOS (remote wind turbine monitoring applications and such like). He had intended to do the same with Android, but he was not impressed with it as a programming language and dropped that idea.

We agree that Apple have control of the hardware & software whereas Android is an open market, so this complicates writing applications in Android. I think the SkyPro developers more or less admitted that on one of the forums, but they are aware that the Android market is far greater than Apple.

My experience with my Apple iPad4 has been very disappointing at best, but I didn't say that just because I find Apple products do not suit me, that they wouldn't suit others. But then again the market shares probably speak for themselves.

As DFDubb says, phones and tablets won't have the processing power to run full blown simulations. The Apple Store people have told me I cannot get advanced photo editing software for my iPad because it just doesn't have the processing power. The latest Android and Apple products probably compete well with each other, but they will not match a high specification desktop or laptop. That was never their purpose. The various Swing Analysers and Launch Monitors will need higher spec Android or IOS devices. SkyPro I think needed iPad 4 minimum, but that was driven by the BlueTooth flavour it supported. Apple devices are not any more powerful that the latest Android ones and Samsung and HTC often lead Apple in many areas. The Android developers would likely specify KitKat or Lollipop, etc. etc. as a minimum, plus any special BlueTooth/WiFi/Processor/Memory, G Sensors, Gyro requirements, in the same way as is done for Apple.

You pays your money and you takes your choice, but there is a huge Android market waiting for these apps.

BHB1

[wbond]

There may not be an annual subscription fee. I am emailing with someone directly at skytrak to clarify this. I will post what i find out. They do list some other developments in the works though, integration with skypro (whether or not you like that idea) and swinglab, bag mapping and some additional games.

I am still on the fence until the subscription fee is cleared up. I am currently chained to skycaddie now and hate paying yearly fees, even though i do love my sgx.

I don't have a dedicated area to use, so protee is not an option. I don't have unlimited funds, so GC2 is out. Since i am only able to use the garage and the unit needs to be portable, i see this as my only real option. Sim is not a determining factor for me, just accurate ball data.

[Kball]

Interesting all the debate on IOS versus Android. If the Android market was truly such a gold mine for SkyTrak (and many other companies) then what is the opinion as to why the Andorid market is not getting the Apps? These companies are in business to make money - if that opportunity was far greater in the Android market versus the IOS then they would likely pursue. The issue is likely that the complexity and support on the Android side is not worth the effort - at least out of the gate.

[BHB1]

I downloaded the SkyTrak app onto my iPad4 for a look. I didn't register and it allowed me to look at some screens.

EDIT: Tried to register on the app today, but it wouldn't let me. Looks like you have to register with the SkyTrak actually connected to your iPad.

The tutorial section would not load for some reason.
EDIT: Possibly not yet included in the app yet.

Oddly, the app allowed me to change the wind direction and strength, plus the humidity and ground condition (soft, firm, hard). I thought these were part of the subscription package, but maybe it determines these from the registration.

I could not see any way to change the distances into new money ;-) (from yards to metres) so that looks like an oversight if it is eventually going to be available in Europe.

No way of selecting altitude or temperature (unless this is automatic from within the device via GPS, etc. though that wouldn't work in a garage or basement of course.

Looks interesting though.

BHB1

[mxwoodman]

Not that this matters much but I can give some input on why companies target IOS vs Android or at least before Android.
It has nothing to do with how hard it is to program and Android is by far way easier to program using Java than using Obj-C for IOS.
Many devs out there are used to using Java and C# or javascript but when they move to Obj-C they have a very hard time so by a long ways Android is easier to program coming from different backgrounds. IOS does have a new language to make it easier.

The real issue companies make more money from IOS sales than Android and Android users want everything for free so that is one of the biggest reasons right there.

Next most companies that want to target Android are only going to support the latest OS's and certain screen sizes so when looking at market share doesn't really give the true picture since the apps only target a smaller segment of devices.

[HoganWoods]

Today, 08:26 PM
Breaking news! SkyTrak will not be integrated with TGC, ever!

[mthunt]

Today, 08:26 PM
Breaking news! SkyTrak will not be integrated with TGC, ever!

Is this product something promising that was ruined by how some American corporation decided to take it to market? 10 months of hype.

[HoganWoods]

Is this product something promising that was ruined by how some American corporation decided to take it to market? 10 months of hype.

I'm not involved in anyway, but that sounds about right.

[TorchRedRob]

Today, 08:26 PM
Breaking news! SkyTrak will not be integrated with TGC, ever!

That stinks. Can I ask your source of info? I was hoping that TGC might eventually happen.

[BHB1]

Next most companies that want to target Android are only going to support the latest OS's and certain screen sizes so when looking at market share doesn't really give the true picture since the apps only target a smaller segment of devices.

So no different to Sky Trak specifying that it will only work on the latest incarnations of the iPad (Air) even though many earlier models will run the latest operating system IOS 8.

I haven't seen any evidence that golfers overwhelmingly prefer Apple products. You could argue that golfing is expensive and golfers perhaps having above average spendable income, could be persuaded (given no other choice) to buy Apple in order to run any given must have golfing app.

Even SkyPro (which is Apple only) really only supports the screen size of an iPhone, even though better use could be made of the screen real estate of the iPad.

BHB1