What do you expect?

[AKY99]

I dislike slow play so much that unless I am playing with some buddies I almost exclusively play by myself later in the evening and I finish my 18 holes in 2 hours walking. I am not against playing with other people, but usually I just check out the tee sheet and find a gap. I'd rather have the extra two hours at home doing something else then waiting on people's shots. Nothing worse then getting stuck behind a bunch of foursomes that are painstakingly slow and there is no way to play through. Last year I got stuck in a five hour round and I regretted it.

[chucky]

We have all been there your foursome is all playing well keeping the ball in play moving along ,some days not so much. I dont wear a watch and waiting a few seconds on the tee box doesnt bother me.If we are playing slow we ask the group behind if they would like to play through its easy.If we are playing well and waiting 10 mins per shot and group in front is a hole behind we dont wait for a marshal we will ask to play through.Like the left lane huggers some need alittle convincing.If you want to play a 5hr round go right ahead walk slow,take 10 mins to look for your lost top flite,take 15 pre shot swings,have your instructor friend give you a lesson on every shot,Hit your 180 drive from the back tees and then wait until the group in front is off the par 5 green before you hit your 350 yrd approach shot, take what ever time you need to hit your three putts,Its your day you paid your hard earned $$$ do what ever the course allows.

Every time a group approachs the first tee box the starter should remind every group fix your divots and pitch marks,and if you are falling behind pull over and let the group behind play through so they can also enjoy there hard earned $$$.

[dq2003]

in my observation, the number one reason for slow play.....

players taking long preshot routines even when they've already attempted 3 or 4 full shots on the hole.

Typically this is a average player having a bad day, or a poor player trying to become better.

Once you're making 7 move it along, you're just holding everyone up. Lying 4 in the fairway on a par 4 and standing over that wedge for 40 seconds while you think about 17 different swing keys, hole after hole after hole, save it for the range, I don't care what your instructor says. And while we're at it, when you've already lost 2 ball on this nine, no looking for 5 minutes for ball number 3, 4...too bad.

If we could get the really slow players to speed up we probably wouldn't have a reason to talk about this much anymore.

I agree with the pre-shot routine.
I don't mind a low-handicapper taking a few practice swings, but when you follow a group where a player CONSISTENTLY takes 6-7 practice swings then slices it, hooks it or mis it ... you have to wonder. Also, as you mention, have a MAX number of strokes per hole (ex: double par).

[justdoit]

2 weeks ago my friend and I played Les Vieux Moulins.It was god awful slow with a 4 some 2 groups ahead holding everyone up.The marshall who I talked to later on told me he did notice 1 girl that was very slow and when he asked her that they had to speed up play or she could play best ball she told him I paid my green fees and not going to play best ball,so thats the attitude of some new golfers it seems.

That was the question a marshal ask me when we complain about slow play.
I wonder if I expect to much, I like to play a round under four hours if possible, I like that if the group can not keep up with the pace, they should pick up their balls and move, I like to see the managers making this happen, I remember when Mr. Lacasse owned Eagle Creek, (I am not sure if I spell his name right) he will marshal the course and was not shy about keeping things moving, slow play bothers me more than anything else, and usually is people that walk slow or leave their carts on the wrong side of the green, or spend endless minutes looking for balls like if they were made out of gold, I do not know maybe I expect to much.

[Guzman]

I was playing Monday 8th, and the twosome in front of us waited for the twosome in front of them to get to the green in par 4s and par 5s, marshal came by said that it will be faster in the back nine, instead of making two groups into one, or explain how to properly keep pace, this people they were late 30s or 4os, not seniors or juniors or high hcp. as some people have suggested, I think the real reason for slow play is ignorance from the players and from the marshals, nobody seems to take the time to explain how it should be done or to suggest a better approach, I understand that course has to be busy, but that should not imply slow play.

[golfisforfun]

@ Guzman, how long did your round take?

[Guzman]

5 hrs, one of the longest this year.

[Kiwi]

Sorry if I am repeating someone else's suggestion... Post the times at the counter. Everyone has to pay/sign in. Have staff point it out, times and consequences, whatever the club feels is reasonable. For me that would be to stand aside and if it becomes chronic, refund and fair-thee-well. Have Marshalls enforce and problem will likely fade away once the club's rep gets around... but we're in an age of no one is accountable and god-forbid you tell someone to do follow the rules after they have paid. If the course won't stop it then let your feet do the talking. Read on here that there are too many courses and not enough golfers. Someone wants our money.

[justsomeguy]

Sorry if I am repeating someone else's suggestion... Post the times at the counter. Everyone has to pay/sign in. Have staff point it out, times and consequences, whatever the club feels is reasonable. For me that would be to stand aside and if it becomes chronic, refund and fair-thee-well. Have Marshalls enforce and problem will likely fade away once the club's rep gets around... but we're in an age of no one is accountable and god-forbid you tell someone to do follow the rules after they have paid. If the course won't stop it then let your feet do the talking. Read on here that there are too many courses and not enough golfers. Someone wants our money.

Stonebridge tried that when they first opened, and the "club's rep" got around. The hardcore golfers were OK with it, but the occasional green fee players resented getting hassled and stayed away. At the time they didn't offer memberships, so at the end of the day the golf club had to back off taking the "hard line" or they would quickly risk going out of business.

It's always a balancing act. I'm a member at Metcalfe, and when I'm playing with members pace of play is not normally an issue. Most of the marshalls are pretty good at delicately making "suggestions" to pick up the pace if it looks like a 5-hour might be in the cards. But I usually book as a single, and I have been stuck with some slow players once in a while and I would be pretty p*ssed off if I had to pay the "consequences" of their slow play. Personally I think that education is the key. Most slow players do not realize that they are slow.

IMHO the biggest contributor to slow play is the "potential lost ball". Now given that most occasional golfers do not hit a provisional in this situation and simply "drop one" anyway, it is not the errant shot itself that causes the problem. It is the fact that the other 3 golfers in the foursome feel that they should spend 10 minutes "helping" their unfortunate fellow competitor search for a golf ball before playing their own ball that wastes so much time. Multiply this situation 18 times (because there is always someone out of the group that hits an errant shot) and you get a 5-hour round - and nobody in the group thinks that they have done anything wrong because they are just trying to help their fellow competitor.

If you want to improve pace of play, then play your ball first and then help somebody else find theirs. Wasting 10 minutes per hole without anyone playing golf penalizes everyone on the course.

[Kilroy]

Well said.

[Stonebridge]

Some helpful tips to speed up play

Most importantly be on time. If your tee time is 9:16, be at the first tee and ready to play at your tee time. Your tee time is not when you arrive at the Pro Shop to check in or pay your green fee.

• Play from the Tees that match your skills
• Quit emulating Tour Players, prune a long pre-shot routine to something concise
• Save the coaching of other players for the practice area
• Shut off the Smartphone or leave it in the car
• Putt out instead of marking that tap in
• Take enough clubs to your ball if it’s cart path only
• Consider a GPS or rangefinder to calculate yardage
• Spend minimal time at the Beverage Cart or Snack Shack
• Clear the green quickly
• Mark your scores on the next tee
• Head to your ball only – EVERY SHOT
• Hit a provisional ball if you think the first one is lost
• Limit time spent looking for a lost ball
• Wave a group through if you insist on looking for a ball
• Read the green as you approach it
• Split the difference with the golf cart. Don’t drive to the first ball, wait for the first player to hit, and then drive to the second ball. Park the cart between the two balls. Walk to the balls, play and then meet back at the cart.
• Use your time in the cart. While riding next to your ball use the travel time to think over your next shot such as yardage, club to use and so on.
• Let a shorter hitter play if he/she can’t reach the group ahead
• Hit when ready if order does not matter

Always keep in mind that:
"Your position on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind."

Hopefully some players find these tips helpful.

[golfisforfun]

@Stonebridge...
Instead of suggesting golfers buy GPS for yardages, courses should do a better job of marking their courses, providing pin sheets, having visible blue, white and red yardage stakes (200,150,100) and maybe even yellow stakes for 50 yards... It is so frustrating when you can't find yardage markers with ease!!!

Why does my pace of play have to be related to the pace of the group ahead of me? The 2 are not related at all. maybe they have less golfers, maybe they are scratch golfers who never look for balls, maybe they don't putt out... The fact is, all my group needs to worry about is our own pace of play, nobody elses.

The fact is, as a paying customer, I have the right to mark my putts, look for balls, take practice swings, go through my pre-shot routine etc etc etc as long as my group plays in 4h30min or less... RIGHT?

I have said it before, courses need to post signs so golfers know what the expected pace of play is, and as someone else mentioned, the person collecting the money needs to mention it, the starter needs to mention it, and the marshalls needs to monitor it properly, in a customer service friendly manner. Print it in BOLD on scorecards and in golf carts.

And as an fyi, I prefer to walk a course, and if a course has proper yardage markers, I can pretty much figure out my yardage for my next shot within a few yards, while walking to my ball, I don't need to stand with a laser and waste time figuring that out when I could be hitting my shot...

Cheers

[Stonebridge]

"Consider" a GPS or rangefinder. This would help players who pace off yardages. Those who eyeball their yardages wouldn't benefit from the suggestion.

Courses are equally responsible for pace of play as the Golfers are. For example, all our sprinkler heads have yardages on them and each tee sign has yardages to certain forced carry distances and landmarks (basically a simple yardage book on each tee for that hole). We also have a sign posted beside our counter saying the maximum time to play the course is 4.5 hours.

"Keeping up with the group in front" is a good general rule for any course. For further guidelines on pace of play please read the R&A's Pace of Play Policy as outlined on their website.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Am...e-of-Play.aspx

Why does my pace of play have to be related to the pace of the group ahead of me? The 2 are not related at all. maybe they have less golfers, maybe they are scratch golfers who never look for balls, maybe they don't putt out... The fact is, all my group needs to worry about is our own pace of play, nobody elses.

The fact is, as a paying customer, I have the right to mark my putts, look for balls, take practice swings, go through my pre-shot routine etc etc etc as long as my group plays in 4h30min or less... RIGHT?

Cut and pasted from that R&A page above:

How players can minimise round times:
Be aware of your position with regard to the group in front and keep up with that group.
If you feel that your group is losing ground, tell the other players in your group.
If your group is behind, try to catch up.
If you lose a clear hole and are delaying the group behind, or if there is no group in front of you and you are delaying the group behind, invite the group behind to play through.

So if you can't keep up with the group in front, BUT aren't delaying the group behind you, then your pace of play should be considered acceptable. Otherwise, proper golf etiquette dictates that the group behind should be allowed to play through.

[HoganWoods]

Well said Stonebridge.

[mizzyboy]

I feel like these helpful tips should be given out to everyone or should be on scorecards regarding pace of play. That way if groups are having issues with slow play, then they can refer to the "guidelines" and advise each other on how to proceed.

I might be dreaming but it would be ideal for me.

Some helpful tips to speed up play

Most importantly be on time. If your tee time is 9:16, be at the first tee and ready to play at your tee time. Your tee time is not when you arrive at the Pro Shop to check in or pay your green fee.

• Play from the Tees that match your skills
• Quit emulating Tour Players, prune a long pre-shot routine to something concise
• Save the coaching of other players for the practice area
• Shut off the Smartphone or leave it in the car
• Putt out instead of marking that tap in
• Take enough clubs to your ball if it’s cart path only
• Consider a GPS or rangefinder to calculate yardage
• Spend minimal time at the Beverage Cart or Snack Shack
• Clear the green quickly
• Mark your scores on the next tee
• Head to your ball only – EVERY SHOT
• Hit a provisional ball if you think the first one is lost
• Limit time spent looking for a lost ball
• Wave a group through if you insist on looking for a ball
• Read the green as you approach it
• Split the difference with the golf cart. Don’t drive to the first ball, wait for the first player to hit, and then drive to the second ball. Park the cart between the two balls. Walk to the balls, play and then meet back at the cart.
• Use your time in the cart. While riding next to your ball use the travel time to think over your next shot such as yardage, club to use and so on.
• Let a shorter hitter play if he/she can’t reach the group ahead
• Hit when ready if order does not matter

Always keep in mind that:
"Your position on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind."

Hopefully some players find these tips helpful.

[Kiwi]

Interesting and helpful comments on this topic. As I read it though I wonder when is it time to stand aside and let a faster group play? Do they have to be watching you tee off? Is it better to do it on a par 5 or a par 3? The guys I play with (seniors admittedly) usually do 4:15, 4:30 so this comes up quite often in a round, perhaps not every hole but on the "quicker" holes we usually all have the same questions, if the hole in front is open (i.e. off/walking off the green as we tee up) or they are two shots ahead (i.e. par 5 and chipping on) when do we stand aside and let the approaching group play through? We also take into account the approaching group, is it a foursome, walking or carts, have they been gaining steadily or did we just have a "slow" hole, etc? Thoughts?

[Stonebridge]

@Kiwi: Good question!

If a group is feeling slow, or rushed from behind, it's best to look at what's ahead of you. The standard for being "slow" is an open hole. Could another group fit in between your group and the one you're trying to catch? If so, then take a look behind you. Is the group waiting on the tee for you to clear the fairway? Are they waiting in the fairway for you to clear the green? Are they walking up to the tee as you're walking off? It's basically a judgement call at that point. But wouldn't you enjoy your day more if you weren't being pressured from behind? Would the others enjoy their day more if they played a tad quicker? I know we've all been in either of these two groups. A little bit of proper golf etiquette can go a long way.

The best way to allow a group to play through is to let them know as you're putting out (on any hole, par 3,4,5 doesn't matter) that you'll let the group behind play through on the next tee. This gives the group behind a head's up to maybe putt out a little quicker in order to play through at a quick pace. Then go tee off the next hole but wait on the tee. Allow the group behind to tee off as well and walk up the fairway behind the group after they've teed off. Be sure to give them a little bit of room as they play their next shot, then move to your balls once they've moved on. This way, you're in perfect position to resume play right behind the group you allowed to play through, and will be able to continue to enjoy your round!

Slow groups sometimes think that letting a group play through means they'll have to let multiple groups through. This is not the case. Most times allowing one group to play through to fill the hole ahead gets everyone back on track to finishing in an acceptable amount of time. Allowing one group to play through can easily make up about 10 minutes for every group behind you.

Hopefully this helps answer your question.

[Guzman]

I agree with Stonebridge totally, I love playing there for that same reason, I believe the biggest problem still people do not read this information even if it was printed on a fifty dollar bill, and nobody does the little pep talk at the beginning of the round.

"Consider" a GPS or rangefinder. This would help players who pace off yardages. Those who eyeball their yardages wouldn't benefit from the suggestion.

Courses are equally responsible for pace of play as the Golfers are. For example, all our sprinkler heads have yardages on them and each tee sign has yardages to certain forced carry distances and landmarks (basically a simple yardage book on each tee for that hole). We also have a sign posted beside our counter saying the maximum time to play the course is 4.5 hours.

"Keeping up with the group in front" is a good general rule for any course. For further guidelines on pace of play please read the R&A's Pace of Play Policy as outlined on their website.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Am...e-of-Play.aspx



Cut and pasted from that R&A page above:

How players can minimise round times:
Be aware of your position with regard to the group in front and keep up with that group.
If you feel that your group is losing ground, tell the other players in your group.
If your group is behind, try to catch up.
If you lose a clear hole and are delaying the group behind, or if there is no group in front of you and you are delaying the group behind, invite the group behind to play through.

So if you can't keep up with the group in front, BUT aren't delaying the group behind you, then your pace of play should be considered acceptable. Otherwise, proper golf etiquette dictates that the group behind should be allowed to play through.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Stonebridge tried that when they first opened, and the "club's rep" got around. The hardcore golfers were OK with it, but the occasional green fee players resented getting hassled and stayed away. At the time they didn't offer memberships, so at the end of the day the golf club had to back off taking the "hard line" or they would quickly risk going out of business.

While I prefer too much marshalling rather than less, I found clubs like Stonebridge and outaouais border on being harassing. Hit one crooked tee shot, get a quarter of a hole behind and a marshal magically appears telling you to pick up the pace. I'll take it just because I don't have to worry about long rounds there, which is great, but I don't know why it's so hard to find a happy medium. Find the slow group and get them to speed up. Despite what people see on the course that puts a bee in their bonnet, I bet it's usually just one really slow and inconsiderate group that's holding everyone up.

[dq2003]

This will not make a MAJOR impact, but everything helps.
DO NOT play in "honors" order.
If the person with the "honor" drives 280 yards (others drive less than 240), let the shorter hitters go first. Maybe the group in front is still in the longer hitter's range, but the others may be able to hit.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I don't agree with that. I hate this do everything under the sun to play as quick as possible thing the industry is fostering. If I'm in the fairway I don't want groups behind me bouncing ball up on me, even if they are 30 yards back. We should play the game properly, if you fall behind, speed the heck up, pick up if you have to, it's that simple. There's no reason to change the way we play the game.

A while ago I played with a couple guys, it was a very slow round, waiting on every single shot. Evey time I asked what someone made on the last hole "Ready golf" the guy kept saying in this self righteous way like he was trying to teach me something so we could hurry up and wait. They talked constantly, deliberately stood directly behind me on almost every tee shot, wouldn't stop pointing out how the group in front could play quicker or what a couple of dolts they were when they too were waiting a few minutes on every shot, it go really old really quick. Nice guys in general, but worst round in a while for me. I won't even mention the constant and unexpected putting out of turn on the green.

I can play ready golf, it's no big deal, especially if you've fallen behind to catch up. But there is a reason the order if play is the way it is, it's part of the game IMO, I just hate seeing everything dumbed down because a hand full of inconsiderate people can't play a round in anything close to a rational time.

Guys behind me on the tee urging mew to hit when the group in front is 280 in the fairway, "you can't hit that far", have they ever even played with me? Where are we gong to go anyhow? It's bad enough when it's a slow round, but then you have to deal with all this other stuff as well, yikes...

[Sunny D]

So just wondering how many who have commented have Marshalled at a course. I Marshall at two courses. One here and one in Florida. Both have pace of play indicators on the score sheets. Pace of play is enforced not when a twosome thinks the pace is too slow, or a single wants to play through. Pace of play is monitored and enforced when a group is trending towards a round that is longer than the posted standard. I won't speak to a group that may have fallen a little behind on pace of play because bad holes happen to even the best of golfers. But if they get and stay behind pace of play for a couple of holes then I will step in. As a Marshall, when I find twosomes or singles waiting I speak to them and let them know if the possibility of playing through even exists. Sometimes it can happen and when it is possible I facilitate it.

Issues arise when any golfer low or high handicapper, daily fee or member feel that they can operate outside the posted time. The golfer who wants to play his or her round in 3 hours is going to be upset because no course that I know of is going to enforce a 3 hour round. Slower golfers and yes I see a lot of them for any number of reasons are gently asked to pick up the pace. Then they are monitored for pace of play. If the pace picks up then all is well. When it doesn't well there are many types of remedies that a Marshall can use it depends on the situation, the day and the golfers.

The number one thing to remember is that as a golfer you are sharing the course with about 200 other people and they are out there to have as much fun as you are.

Just my thoughts...