Green Fees rates….are they too high?

[rossigm]

Hi,

Not sure if you noticed this year but our local courses aren’t as busy as they use to be! How perfect was the weather this past weekend! Yet the courses weren’t that busy? With online booking now it’s a lot easier to check availability for tee times. I check all weekend long and it wouldn’t have been an issue to get a prime tee time on any given course in the area. Four, five years ago if you didn’t have a tee time for the weekend at least a week in advance you weren’t playing any time before 3 or 4 PM.

I played the Gatineau Friday afternoon the weather was perfect!!! My tee off was at 12:45 other than my foursome I hardly saw anybody on the course, we had a fee beers on the patio after our round, would you believe that it took more than one hours for another group to walk in after us on the 18^th hole!!! The parking lot wasn’t even half full, on my way home I drove by the Champlain, same thing there not even a half full parking. I bike into work every day; the bike path I take is right next to a local course I also notice that it’s very quiet there too!

Personally I think that the green fees are $15 to $40 too high in the Ottawa/Gatineau area golf courses, I won’t name any courses because I’m probably not allowed to but they are all overpriced. With today’s low economy people are doing other/cheaper activities, just think about it, a round of golf for a couple on an below average course will cost more the $100 with cart. How many kids/teenagers do you see at your local course? Who will be our upcoming golfers if kids aren’t playing golf? If the courses aren’t making enough money then they won’t have money to invest in their course which will eventually affect course condition……

Why don’t they all get together and come to an agreement that they should all lower their rates!?! What’s better an overpriced empty course or a packed average price club???

My two cents!

[big mac]

If you think Ottawa is expensive--try Toronto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want to beat the price ? Try walking--it will save between 30.00 and 40.00 per couple and secondly join one of the many discount golf clubs in the area. You don't have to play all the top end courses all the time either. I play about 60 games a year at almost all the clubs except the Club Link---walk 85 % of them and in the end my average per round cost is under 30.00---there is no way you can complain about that.

I think you may be right about the number of players--not sure--if courses start to close then there is definitely a problem BUT this discussion has been going on for years. In the end the proof will be in the pudding----I don't think I have heard of any course closing lately----I have seen some making good adjustments.

Time will tell

[314314]

Well, we are in Ottawa which is a very different market than Toronto. I think each owner will realize the number of players and adjust fees accordingly. As per my golf budget permits, I will take my business where I see it fit and get more games in. Yes, it would be nice to play at nice clubs but I prefer to play more. (Prime tee-time at $75/$80 vs 2 games at $40)

As a side note:
- With some of the rates charged by discounts clubs vs twilight rates offered directly by the courses being so close. I give my business to the course owners directly.

[mizzyboy]

I think a lot of people will find this report about the state of golf in Canada to be very interesting.

http://www.tsn.ca/golf/story/?id=453843

According to it, the average green fee paid across the country is $42, when you consider the supply/demand and income factors, I would say that Ottawa courses are fairly priced. But it really depends because value is all relative.

[Guzman]

I am sure there are places more expensive than Toronto, the numbers of golfers diminish gradually at to 2008 and probably have not bounce back, (no Tiger Woods) I was involve in golf venture and we put it on ice, because of the decrease of people taking the game, but really what in boils to is value, in the last 5 years I have found my self playing alone, my older friends are either sick or dead, my younger friends are starting a family, the recession have taken a chunk of entrainment dollars out of people pockets (mine included) and there are golf courses that charge like Stonebridge or Equinelle, but they are not even a shadow of this courses. This year I am playing where I think I get the most enjoyment per dollar, I check here constantly, to see where conditions are good, after all I rather pay $40. at Stonebridge than 30 somewhere else.

My two cents.

[big mac]

Seriously---I do agree with the "Tiger"---I love the game and I love to watch it on TV---when he's playing---not enough real excitement---except for Phil when he wants to try the "impossible.

I read the government report--it spits out overall numbers etc but the only one that makes sense is the 42.00 per round average. Course round numbers may be down but the revenue is up---that just shows the tightening of the belt by the owners. As I said in the other thread time will tell and the cream will rise to the top.

I don't understand this resident fee---I have run into it in the US and as far as I am concerned it "sucks". Why am I as a golfer--visitor--spender of $$$$ panelized because I do not live in the area. The government is not giving the course a break on taxes---the course is a business just like anything else. Imagine going into Home Depot and being charged 20.00 more because you do not live down the street. I have asked directly about this policy and the answer was "maybe it will entice residents to patronize local business more" ----maybe but in the long run any kind of discrimination puts a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

[rossigm]

Here a proof that a course is stuggeling, just received it from our Ottawa Golf site!

But instead of lowering the green fee rate they'll try to get you there with some other offer that's not really saving you any $$$$$

Nine & Dine Fridays at the new Gatineau Golf & Country Club for $54 plus taxes, for 9 holes. I want to play golf I can feed myself at home.

[BogeyGolf]

I think people just had better things to do this weekend, as it was the first nice weekend of the year. We had a garage sale on Sat. and it was a lot quieter than normal, and we just chalked it up to it was a nice weekend, and people were taking advantage of the nice weather and doing other things with their families...

[rossigm]

My point exactly, people are doing other stuff instead of spending $50, $75, $100 on a round of golf.........

[BogeyGolf]

Yes, but I don't think it is because green fee prices are too high....I think people just took advantage of the weather to do other things with their families....

[DecoyOctopus]

I do think that some courses price themselves out of their league.

[golfisforfun]

Some courses do not offer enough value/$ for me, and others do... It's the same in every industry, if you can't afford Product ABC, go shop elsewhere.
I play Stonebridge and Emerald Links for $50 tax incl every round all year. I find that is good value based on time commitment, drive to the course, course conditions, difficulty level of course, pace of play and overall enjoyment... I don't care about range facilities, clubhouse, beer cart, drink prices etc... I am there to golf and I bring my own snacks and drinks (not beer!)...

Would I pay $100 for the Marshes? No, not when that is 2 rounds at Stonebridge and an extra 50-60 minutes of travel time.

There is a lot of competition for golf courses. And having a 9and Dine is not a reflection on the course struggling... No idea how you can say that...

And if you wonder why fees might increase in price, just thank our provincial government... they do nothing to help the situation! But that's another topic!!!

[BogeyGolf]

Here a proof that a course is stuggeling, just received it from our Ottawa Golf site!

But instead of lowering the green fee rate they'll try to get you there with some other offer that's not really saving you any $$$$$

Nine & Dine Fridays at the new Gatineau Golf & Country Club for $54 plus taxes, for 9 holes. I want to play golf I can feed myself at home.

I think they are just giving people options, my wife cant play 18 holes, but she would be interested in 9 holes and a nice dinner....this just gives people choices, and it is always nice to have choices.... in my opinion....

[justsomeguy]

I have also noticed that my golf course (Metcalfe) is not as busy as it used to be, but I don't believe the membership has decreased. There seems to be fewer and fewer green-fee players on the course. I'm not really surprised though.

One reason: Demographics - Baby boomers are now in their 60's and 70's, so if they still play golf they don't play as many rounds as they used to.
Another reason: Local Economy - Ottawa region has traditionally had more golf courses per capita than other cities, and we have lost over 15,000 good-paying government jobs in the last few years. I think a lot of people are just playing fewer rounds and/or playing tournaments only because that is what they can afford.

Price is only one component of the "value equation", and we all have our own unique and subjective opinions about what makes up "good value". I do scratch my head sometimes when I see the prices that some courses charge, but golf courses are in business to make a profit and I don't think any of us really know whether they are struggling or not.

[Gobble_It]

I think people just had better things to do this weekend, as it was the first nice weekend of the year. We had a garage sale on Sat. and it was a lot quieter than normal, and we just chalked it up to it was a nice weekend, and people were taking advantage of the nice weather and doing other things with their families...

Doors Open weekend...everyone was out visiting old buildings

[Gobble_It]

I have also noticed that my golf course (Metcalfe) is not as busy as it used to be, but I don't believe the membership has decreased. There seems to be fewer and fewer green-fee players on the course. I'm not really surprised though.

One reason: Demographics - Baby boomers are now in their 60's and 70's, so if they still play golf they don't play as many rounds as they used to.
Another reason: Local Economy - Ottawa region has traditionally had more golf courses per capita than other cities, and we have lost over 15,000 good-paying government jobs in the last few years. I think a lot of people are just playing fewer rounds and/or playing tournaments only because that is what they can afford.

Price is only one component of the "value equation", and we all have our own unique and subjective opinions about what makes up "good value". I do scratch my head sometimes when I see the prices that some courses charge, but golf courses are in business to make a profit and I don't think any of us really know whether they are struggling or not.

Are you sure that it was not 15000 government workers taking early retirement packages instead ?. There should more people playing golf locally then

[golfisforfun]

I am also not sure if you can really relate the cost of fees to the lack of golfers overall...

With a 3 year old and another little one on the way, I know my rounds of golf will be limited, maybe 15 or so this summer...
The cost to golf does not determine how many times I will play. Our schedule does... Cost determines where I will play those 15 times.

If every course suddenly dropped their fees by 50%, that would not change the fact that on the weekend we need to do yardwork, laundry, groceries, go to soccer, visit the grandparents, make meals etc...

[cleek]

The course that offers a good golfing experience at a reasonable price will survive.
The course who is getting by with mediocre or worse conditions and average customer service and a dwindling membership may opt to get out of the golf business in the coming years. Seems like we have more courses in the Ottawa area and fewer players playing compared to 10 years ago.
I am part of a discount program so I have no complaints with price but if I were paying full pop I'd be playing a lot less.

[big mac]

The course that offers a good golfing experience at a reasonable price will survive.
The course who is getting by with mediocre or worse conditions and average customer service and a dwindling membership may opt to get out of the golf business in the coming years. Seems like we have more courses in the Ottawa area and fewer players playing compared to 10 years ago.
I am part of a discount program so I have no complaints with price but if I were paying full pop I'd be playing a lot less.

That's it in a nutshell---I'm in the same boat and loving every minute

[jeffc]

we've got lots of options in Ottawa, at every price range, for every golfer. I don't think we pay too much at all. In fact, I'd argue we don't have a really high end course with exceptional service, conditioning and layout. Can you think of any course in Ottawa that would make the top 100 in Canada? Rideauview is the only one to do it in the last round. For the size of the city, we do very well in terms of price/performance.

[kemcheca]

If two couples play prime time a golf course and green fees are $50 and cart around $36, Total $272 plus say drinks so make it $300. For $300 people are finding better value for their money then playing golf. If you add kids forget it! Golf is not a kid friendly sport! Unfortunately things are going to a lot worst in the next couple of years. U wonder why golf is loosing 1M net golfer a year you have to look no further. Time, Cost and wannabe elites!

[quinner]

A buddy of mine (a clublink member) played outside of CL last weekend at a local course and it was going to cost him $140 to play with a cart. The cart is gas powered and no gps. IMO there is no course in Ottawa worth that price tag. That obviously doesn't represent the overall pricing of golf in Ottawa, however these types of prices will drive up the overall cost as other courses as they will see an opportunity to bump up if other courses are charging inflated prices for lack luster conditions.

[Johnyc]

Sorry, but with all due respect, there are three better courses in Ottawa then Rideau View. The top 100 is not an accurate measure of Canada's best courses.

[jeffc]

Sorry, but with all due respect, there are three better courses in Ottawa then Rideau View. The top 100 is not an accurate measure of Canada's best courses.

Perhaps? Which 3?

[Johnyc]

Perhaps? Which 3?

Hi. In my opinion, Eagle Creek, Camelot and Hunt Club are all better tracks.

[jeffc]

They are all in the same ballpark. Still nothing in ottawa that is exceptional and what I would call high end or would be considered in even the top 50 in Canada.

[Johnyc]

They are all in the same ballpark. Still nothing in ottawa that is exceptional and what I would call high end or would be considered in even the top 50 in Canada.

I agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I like Rideau View, but I will never get the scoring that validated their standing in the rankings.

[KOKO72]

IMHO I think we have it pretty good here in Ottawa and the surrounding area,and all within a two hour drive North, South East or West. The prices for Green Fees are more than reasonable for the quality of courses we have the opportunity to play.

Golfers can choose the calibre of the course to fit their budget. Obviously if you want to play at prime time (Fri Sat or Sun mornings) then be prepared to pay premium prime time rates. We as golfers, also have the benefit of joining discount clubs such as Executive, RM, Red book, Golfnow and others to further reduce our Green fee hit to the wallet. Granted, some of the times are restrictive, but for the price conscious golfer these are the options available and at great rates. Many clubs also offer discounted rates on off peak times. All it takes is a few phone calls or Google searches to find some good rates. I personally have reduced my golf expenditure in half thanks to one of the Discount Clubs and Golfnow over the last few years.(I average 50+ rounds per year)

Given the choices of courses, some great rates (read cheaper than Toronto), we got it pretty good.

[pingzzing]

I agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I like Rideau View, but I will never get the scoring that validated their standing in the rankings.

Basically what happened is that they wined and dined and pretty well begged the people making the decision to include Rideauview in the rankings. Nice course, but overrated and overpriced.

[habsfan]

Basically what happened is that they wined and dined and pretty well begged the people making the decision to include Rideauview in the rankings. Nice course, but overrated and overpriced.

Best course conditions in the city for sure but nowhere near the best layout.