Immovable Obstruction relief question

[GarthM]

To all you rules officianados, how would you setup a local rule for the following situation?

For those who know it, Hautes Plaines #18, dogleg right, OB left (houses). Origininally there was a small lateral hazard running down the left side (maybe 3 feet wide) between the rough and the OB fences. The course has now put up a net roughly 5-7 yards from the OB fences to keep balls out of the houses. It's runs about 50 yards down the left side and is roughly 60' high.

On the left side of the net (houses side) there is a single 3' wide strip of grass between the netting and then the rest is now large rocks (4-6" diameter) running all the way to the OB fence.

The issue is that there is always the slight chance that a ball will roll under the net (or go through and fall to the other side, but stay in bounds).

The pro wants to allow relief from the net under 24-2 for stance/swing but also wants to give relief from the rocks on the left side for line of sight. Now the area that is all rocks used to be a hazard that occaisonally you were lucky to be able to play out of.

From what I read in 24-2, there is no relief allowed for line of sight for an immovable obstruction, and in equity, I don't know that relief from the rocks should be allowed in this case as it used to be hazard (it's now essentially drainage).

Could we put in an optional DZ back by the 150 yard marker (in the rough of course ) for all balls that roll under the net and are affected by the net for stance/swing/line of sight (but not the OB fence??) and allow relief for balls that remain on the right side where stance/swing are affected?

I have attached a diagram (not very good mind you...) to attempt to illustrate.

Cheers,

Garth

[gbower]

Move the Out of Bounds to the course side of the net and the net will then be out of bounds with no free relief. This will eliminate the players just pounding the ball into the netting to get free relief. Don't forget that before the net was installed they would most likely have been out of bounds. Just think of the netting as a fence for out of bounds rather than an immovable obstruction.

[AAA]

I agree with the above but have a look at this.
I use it a my course where OB is not a factor but a protective fence is.

33-8/18
Local Rule Providing Line-of-Sight Relief from Protective Fence Near Line of Play

If a wire fence is erected to protect players on the tee of one hole from errant shots played at another hole, and it is relatively close to the line of play of the other hole, it would be permissible to make a Local Rule allowing a player whose ball is in such a position that the fence intervenes on his line of play to drop the ball, without penalty, not nearer the hole in a specified dropping zone.

[gbower]

AAA that was my first take on it but after seeing a photo of the area I think out of bounds stakes at the posts is the reasonable way to go as only about 15' to the left of the netting is an out of bounds fence now. I'm going to have a look at it myself on Tuesday as photos don't always show everything.

[GarthM]

Glad to hear you are dropping by Gerry! Thanks!

[gbower]

I hope to be there around 11:00am tomorrow to have a look at it with Jean. That's the only way to really get a good idea of the situation.

[DenisO]

I hope to be there around 11:00am tomorrow to have a look at it with Jean. That's the only way to really get a good idea of the situation.

This is awesome. Thanks Gerry!

[LobWedge]

This is awesome. Thanks Gerry!

This is why we have some of the best RO's around, Denis.

[gbower]

Well I got over to Hautes Plaines today and the pro and I had a good look and discussion of the situation and have agreed that anything beyond the netting is out of bounds and that the cable at the bottom will be defining the out of bounds and as the netting is attached to this cable there will be no free relief for swing or stance. If it interferes the player can try to hack the ball out or take an unplayable. This will be further protection for the homes and maintain the integrity of the hole. A note is being sent to all members with the following statement: There will be white stakes put in to identify the out of bounds but the tight cable at the bottom will be defining it. It's much better to see the whole situation in person than from talking and photos as we looked at it from the tee and at the netting itself.

"Retaining wire at the base of the net will be defining the out of bounds and stakes will be identifying it.
If you need to take relief; proceed under the Unplayable Ball rule."

[AAA]

Gerry

Good result.

A suggestion if I may. Over here we use white stakes with black tops (about 15cm) to identify the presence of a nearby OOB. Reduces any confusion.

[gbower]

Thanks AAA

[adanac]

Well I got over to Hautes Plaines today and the pro and I had a good look and discussion of the situation and have agreed that anything beyond the netting is out of bounds and that the cable at the bottom will be defining the out of bounds and as the netting is attached to this cable there will be no free relief for swing or stance. If it interferes the player can try to hack the ball out or take an unplayable. This will be further protection for the homes and maintain the integrity of the hole. A note is being sent to all members with the following statement: There will be white stakes put in to identify the out of bounds but the tight cable at the bottom will be defining it. It's much better to see the whole situation in person than from talking and photos as we looked at it from the tee and at the netting itself.

"Retaining wire at the base of the net will be defining the out of bounds and stakes will be identifying it.
If you need to take relief; proceed under the Unplayable Ball rule."

Obviously, I'm not there so see the situation so take this comment with that in mind. I'd be inclined to put in stakes a couple of feet inside the netting to define the out of bounds, which might give the players a chance to make a stroke at a ball in bounds without incurring a penalty stroke under Rule 28. Imo, the Committee should avoid situations where a player's only option is Rule 28, and the Committee should avoid suggesting Rule 28 (see Decision 34-3/6). Whether the netting is defining out of bounds or is out of bounds is irrelevant as the player is not getting free relief in either case. Just my $0.02
Glad you went out to see the situation and provide guidance.

[gbower]

adanac we talked about that and it's actually pretty hard for a ball to get under the netting and if we moved the stakes in a couple of feet then more balls would be out of bounds if they hit the net and the result is going back to the tee. This way at least the penalty for interference is only one stroke. That was definitely an option but felt it would be too severe. Thanks for the input.

[DenisO]

This hole just keeps getting tighter and tighter, damn..

[GarthM]

This hole just keeps getting tighter and tighter, damn..

Just hit your driver to the bunker....OB is way past the bunker....

[GarthM]

Well I got over to Hautes Plaines today and the pro and I had a good look and discussion of the situation and have agreed that anything beyond the netting is out of bounds and that the cable at the bottom will be defining the out of bounds and as the netting is attached to this cable there will be no free relief for swing or stance. If it interferes the player can try to hack the ball out or take an unplayable. This will be further protection for the homes and maintain the integrity of the hole. A note is being sent to all members with the following statement: There will be white stakes put in to identify the out of bounds but the tight cable at the bottom will be defining it. It's much better to see the whole situation in person than from talking and photos as we looked at it from the tee and at the netting itself.

"Retaining wire at the base of the net will be defining the out of bounds and stakes will be identifying it.
If you need to take relief; proceed under the Unplayable Ball rule."

Thanks for taking the time Gerry! Much appreciated, and since it was not an internal decision, no one can complain! Well they will anyways, but whatever....

[habsfan]

This is awesome. Thanks Gerry!

Quiet you, I heard you've been "pounding" it off the fence.

[GarthM]

Quiet you, I heard you've been "pounding" it off the fence.