Cost Question For Set Alterations

[bNeill]

I want to have my shafts cut down a half inch (including driver and 3 wood), loft and lie checked and adjusted and SW/MOI matched. I also need one iron shaft replaced.

How much would you think all of this would cost approximately? I figure grips/shaft will run around $150 but I'm wondering more about labor. Is this a project that I could take on in part by myself? I think it could be a good experience to learn a bit about club making but I also don't want to risk messing up.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[John]

You would need something to accurately cut the shafts, something to measure the swing weight with and tools/materials to adjust your clubs accordingly up or down.

[jvincent]

Grips and shaft length changes are easy. Measure twice, cut once. Using a dremel tool or a cut-off wheel are the best way to cut shafts.

If you have a SW scale, you can match swingweight (and MOI) relatively easily as well. To do an MOI match you'll need a spreadsheet to get the exact numbers.

Loft and lie adjustments need a bending machine to do. That's a big ticket item. I've been building clubs for a long time and even I don't have a loft/lie machine.

[Chieflongtee]

I want to have my shafts cut down a half inch (including driver and 3 wood),
Thanks in advance for the help.

How many shafts do you want shortened? The procedure for doing so is pretty basic. Do you have at tube cutter and/or something to cut through graphite? Can you install your own grips? Do you have anything to measure swingweight. Moi matching is a different story and not too many people around here have a MOI scale. You'd be best to go see Les or Don or GW for adjusting and measuring loft and lies.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE=jvincent;501770]If you have a SW scale, you can match swingweight (and MOI) relatively easily as well. To do an MOI match you'll need a spreadsheet to get the exact numbers.

QUOTE]

Actually if you just increase the swingweight by 0.65 points per club (

1.3 swingweight points per inch) in a 1/2" progression set)

You'll end up with a MOI matched set. It does not mean that this will be the ideal MOI for the golfer but it will be MOI matched Of course you can tinker with club lengths and get the same results. Why am I telling you this? You already know all that

[jvincent]

Correct, old news for me. Although I usually did my MOI matching with 0.5 SW differences and 0.4" length differences.

[Chieflongtee]

Correct, old news for me. Although I usually did my MOI matching with 0.5 SW differences and 0.4" length differences.

According to gurus the heads have to be 7 grams apart. The 0.4'' length has always baffled me.
3/8 of an inch per club or 7/16 or in between?

Ounces or 16ths, with decimal equivalents Ounces Fraction Decimal
3/8 .375
7/16 .4375

[jvincent]

I'm pretty sure Dave Tutelman's original MOI articles used 0.4" for standard weight spacing and I have a ruler that's marked in tenths, so I've always used that.

[Chieflongtee]

I'm pretty sure Dave Tutelman's original MOI articles used 0.4" for standard weight spacing and I have a ruler that's marked in tenths, so I've always used that.

Correct about Tutelman It's either .4 of an inch or 1.3 sw point per inch in a 1/2 progression set.
Never heard of such a ruler. Where did you get that?

[jvincent]

It's a "scientific" steel ruler. I'm pretty sure I got from work many years ago.

[Chieflongtee]

It's a "scientific" steel ruler. I'm pretty sure I got from work many years ago.

Does not come in 48 inches does it?

If not then how do you measure accurately using 2 rulers?
Best answer I could fin online so far:
https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/questio...7043746AAAXQzq

How do you measure tenths of an inch on a ruler?




So 2.4 inches on a ruler, where do you mark that? How do you figure out tenths of an inch? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Update 1: Wow! Difficult as it sounds........I really appreciate the details.






Best AnswerAsker's Choice

• Andy J answered 4 years ago

You can't accurately on a normal ruler, though you can estimate. So you want 0.4 inches. Multiply by 16 to get 6.4. That means 0.4 is 6.4 sixteenths of an inch. In other words, it is about half way between 6/16 and 7/16 (that is, 3/8 and 7/16).

My carpenter's square has 10th of an inch markings on one side. You can buy some rulers with 10th inch markings (see sources).

[jvincent]

It's a 12".

When I have done it in the past I have just measured from the butt end.

[Chieflongtee]

It's a 12".

When I have done it in the past I have just measured from the butt end.

Never thought about that.

[Chieflongtee]

Turns out I ended up having a decimal ruler( electronic caliper) Go figure. Why would you need a spreadsheet to MOI match if you're just going to use .4 of an inch instead of the standard .5?

[jvincent]

The spreadsheet advice was for BNeill in case he wants to check out a bunch of different options before he starts cutting.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a sheet that will calculate both SW and MOI at the same time. I just have a basic SW one on my computer.

[Chieflongtee]

Found a decimal ruler online. Could be printed and stuck to a 48 inch ruler.

Pretty sure I have the sheet you are talking about. I will have to check.

[Chieflongtee]

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/biblio.php#spreadsheet

Spreadsheet programs: I use a few spreadsheets (all compatible with Microsoft Excel) in my club design and analysis work.

• Carey Winquist's "Club Designer", version 1.2a, released in 2001. I have Carey's permission to send you a copy on request. (But see note *) I use it to try out head/shaft/grip combinations to see the swingweight and moment of inertia of the resulting club. It is one of the best and most careful swingweight programs I've seen.

[downhillslider]

I think you two lost B.Neil about 11 posts ago !!

[downhillslider]

Hold the club up like a rifle with the toe down. Check to see if the hosel lines up with the shaft. It will be very noticeable if there is a bend. I have seen many DG's with the tip bent.

[Chieflongtee]

I think you two lost B.Neil about 11 posts ago !!

Ha Ha and we have not even touched adjusting lie angles with .4 increments

[bNeill]

I figured I would just use increments based on Wishon's recommendations. I'm unsure whether I want to MOI match or SW match at the moment. I've had both done and it's hard to tell which I preferred however (with my limited knowledge) MOI matching seems to make more sense to me.

One could still MOI match simply using lead tape, correct? Or is there a need to use powder?

[Chieflongtee]

I figured I would just use increments based on Wishon's recommendations. I'm unsure whether I want to MOI match or SW match at the moment. I've had both done and it's hard to tell which I preferred however (with my limited knowledge) MOI matching seems to make more sense to me.

One could still MOI match simply using lead tape, correct? Or is there a need to use powder?

Yes you could using lead tape. However since you will be cutting a 1/2 inch see 3 and6 below.

From hireko:

1. All Swingweights are based on the raw weights of the club's components. The shaft is not to be cut to length in order to pre-calculate swingweight.

2. The balance point of the shaft, particularly certain graphite models, may change the final swingweight by several points. A lower balance point will increase the swingweight; higher balance points lower it.

3. A change in the head weight by 2 grams will yield a 1-swingweight change in the club. Heavier heads increase swingweight; lighter ones decrease it.

4. A change in shaft weight of 9 grams will yield a 1-swingweight change in the club. Lighter shafts decrease swingweight.

5. A change in grip weight of 5 grams will change swingweight by 1 point. Lighter grips increase swingweight; heavier ones decrease it.

6. A 1⁄2" change in the length of a club causes a 3-swingweight point change. Lengthening a club increases swingweight; making it shorter lowers it.

[bNeill]

I don't mind slapping a bunch of tape on the back and this will probably have to be the case. Mizuno uses light heads for over-length orders so once cut would likely be in the C range. Is MOI matching much more labor intensive for the person doing the work or is it just a matter of plugging a value into a spreadsheet?

[downhillslider]

Ha Ha and we have not even touched adjusting lie angles with .4 increments

I think you mean .4638*

[bNeill]

Another question: is there a way to determine if shafts have any bend to them? I've played these irons for 5 years with quite a lot of practice on mats and I'm a bit worried some of them could be warped but it's not noticeably visible.

[Chieflongtee]

I would say MOI is a lot more work if you want to get it right. In a SW set providing all the heads are 7 grams apart (or close) and grips more or less the same weight all you got to do is to cut the lengths in 1/2 increments and the swingweight will be more than likely the same across the set(PW might be different if you make it shorter than your 9) Now the same would apply under the same circumstances if you followed the .4 increments. A bit more work if you followed the 1.3 swingweight change per 1 inch. Now the catch is; what is the right MOI for you?
See below on how some golfers went about finding the right MOI( I guess you could say the same for sw but almost nobody ever does that)
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt4.php
Then, on 13 July 2010, a GolfWRX member called DieselG produced the following post:

I just built my "new" set of clubs. 3-L PING BeNi ISIs. I wanted to try something different this time - MOI matching.

I remember reading in the past about MOI matching clubs, as opposed to a standard swingweighting (example D1 for all clubs.). I found a great link at Tutelman website about this principle, that if you increase SW about 1.3 for every inch the club gets shorter you will be pretty close to MOI matched.

I took my old Eye2s out to the range and hit balls with the 3 iron, changing the swingweight until it felt "right". I then did the same with my Pitching Wedge until it felt right.

To temporarily adjust SW, I used pennies, and/or nickels that I "molded" into a rounded shape (the same radius as the hosel), and temporarily attached them to the hosel with tape. Each penny (2.5 grams) gave me approx 1.25+ Swingweight, and each nickel (5 grams) was about 2.5+ swingwight. I had cut one penny in half to "fine tune" as well.

Once I discovered what felt the best, I took them home and measured and found that my 3 iron felt best around D0 and my PW Felt best around D4.5.

I then built my BeNi ISI irons using this slope, where the 3 iron = D0, 4 iron = D0.7, 5 iron = D1.5, 6 iron = D2.2, 7 iron = D2.7, 8 iron = D3.5, 9 iron = D4.2, PW = D4.5. SW and LW were both progressively heavier as well. I have a spreadsheet I made that allows me to calculate SW to the tenth, using weight and balance point.
. . . . .

The results were fantastic. I love the way these irons feel. I feel much more in control than I ever have on all irons.

If you want to test this you might try the "taping pennies or nickels" to your clubs until you determine what feels best. One swingweight for all clubs may not work best for you.

Assuming DieselG's clubs had a half-inch length increment (a highly likely assumption), this comes out to a slope of 1.29 points per inch -- again, incredibly close to 1.3.

This admittedly limited and anecdotal evidence implies that matching clubs on a 1.3 swingweight slope is a very good way to make them play the same.

[jvincent]

Another question: is there a way to determine if shafts have any bend to them? I've played these irons for 5 years with quite a lot of practice on mats and I'm a bit worried some of them could be warped but it's not noticeably visible.

What shafts? The original ProjectX and the entire KBS line are notorious for bending right where the shaft goes into the hosel since Kim Braly does not believe in reinforced tips. Ask me how I know this.

As far as checking, just roll them on a granite counter top and you see it immediately.

[bNeill]

They're DG but set in the heads at the moment which I think would make it more difficult to test. They're also stepped obviously so I think it would be more difficult visually to tell.

I think I may try to build the set according to the information from the site posted by Chief. The bonus of this method for my case is the heads are probably already light so I wouldn't likely have a weight issue in the longer irons.

[jvincent]

Yep, you need to pull them to check for bends.

[Chieflongtee]

Bneil. Here is an excellent article on how to MOI matched a set:
http://www.golfsmith.com/cm/display_...oi_vs_swm&ln=N

I can tell you that is a lot easier to build a MOI matched set from scratch than to upgrade an existing set as some heads and shafts weights may not be up to specs.

Good luck.