Placing flagstick

[James Chigs]

Is there a penaly if a player removes the flag stick and puts it on the putting green before taking his/her putting stroke. Can it be argued that he is testing the slope of the green or aiding in alignment. Where exactly on the green must the flag stick be placed other than being attended to by another person

[AAA]

There is no penalty for placing the flag on the putting green. It may be placed anywhere it is not going to interfere with play.
I can't see how it would indicate slope any more than the surface itself.
There is only a problem with alignment if it is left in a position indicating the line of play when a player actually makes a stroke.

Incidentally, when you open a new thread, 'Title' means the subject of the thread (** placing flagstick) not your title and name

[Kilroy]

Fixed.

[AAA]

[jlaidley]

Technically the flagstick can be placed anywhere, BUT if a ball strikes it the player who stroked the ball will get a 2 stroke penalty.

If the ball is heading towards the flag and someone moves it out of the way, that person gets a 2 stroke penalty.
EDIT: I've left the above sentence in for thread continuity but it is WRONG. See below.

[gbower]

jlaidley have a look at Rule 24-1 and you will see that if the ball is heading towards the flagstick anyone can move it with NO penalty.

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24-1. Movable Obstruction
A player may take relief, without penalty, from a movable obstruction as follows:

a. If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed. If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty, provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction. Otherwise, Rule 18-2a applies.

b. If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole.

The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.

When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

[jlaidley]

Thanks. I'm really surprised by that so I appreciate the clarification.

[quinner]

Thanks. I'm really surprised by that so I appreciate the clarification.

Just out of curiosity, why are you "really surprised" about that rule?

[jlaidley]

Just out of curiosity, why are you "really surprised" about that rule?

From the 2003 Cdn Open flagstick "incident" I thought you couldn't touch the flagstick while the ball was in motion unless it was attended. And that rule was revised to have no penalty if the flagstick wasn't in play.

Did some more reading and realize that I didn't understand that there is a difference between a flag left in the hole and and a flag removed and at rest. Don't know why that is, but the rules are the rules.

[BC MIST]

From the 2003 Cdn Open flagstick "incident" I thought you couldn't touch the flagstick while the ball was in motion unless it was attended. And that rule was revised to have no penalty if the flagstick wasn't in play.

Did some more reading and realize that I didn't understand that there is a difference between a flag left in the hole and and a flag removed and at rest. Don't know why that is, but the rules are the rules.

What is the difference? A ball played from the putting green that strikes the flagstick results in a 2 stroke penalty, whether the flagstick is in the hole or laying somewhere on the green, and the reasons are obvious. The exception, of course, occurs when the ball strikes the flagstick that is being attended without the authority of the player.

[jlaidley]

What is the difference? A ball played from the putting green that strikes the flagstick results in a 2 stroke penalty, whether the flagstick is in the hole or laying somewhere on the green, and the reasons are obvious. The exception, of course, occurs when the ball strikes the flagstick that is being attended without the authority of the player.

The discussion had evolved to being about moving the flagstick after the ball was in motion. I had thought it was a penalty to move the flagstick. Apparently it is if the flag was unattended (in the hole) but not if it had been removed and was lying on the green.

[AAA]

With the caveat in italics

If the flagstick is not attended, removed or held up before the player makes a stroke, it must not be attended, removed or held up during the stroke or while the player’s ball is in motion if doing so might influence the movement of the ball.

[FionaMc]

Sometimes the I find the rules to be as clear as mud!
To be clear; if the flagstick has been removed and is lying on the green,and a ball is then putted on the green and looks like it's going to hit the flagstick, may it (the flagstick) be moved or not, without penalty?... "when a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved".

[jlaidley]

Sometimes the I find the rules to be as clear as mud!
To be clear; if the flagstick has been removed and is lying on the green,and a ball is then putted on the green and looks like it's going to hit the flagstick, may it (the flagstick) be moved or not, without penalty?.

If the flagstick has been removed and is lying on the green,and a ball is then putted on the green and looks like it's going to hit the flagstick, IT MAY BE MOVED without penalty.

Same for a player's equipment: Can be moved without penalty.

Moving any other obstruction would be a penalty.

[AAA]

Sometimes the I find the rules to be as clear as mud!

may it (the flagstick) be moved or not, without penalty?.
.

Yes it may.

What other meaning can the words have?

When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

Are you suggesting that everything that can't be moved is listed?

[FionaMc]

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to understand the rule. The exception in this rule, relating to the flagstick and the equipment of the player, just seems to me to be contrary to the spirit of the rule, ie do nothing to influence the course of a moving ball. Thanks both of you, for clarifying this point.

[BC MIST]

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to understand the rule. The exception in this rule, relating to the flagstick and the equipment of the player, just seems to me to be contrary to the spirit of the rule, ie do nothing to influence the course of a moving ball. Thanks both of you, for clarifying this point.

If your fellow competitor inadvertently placed his golf clubs in a position where your
rolling ball might strike them, would you be happy accepting a penalty stroke if the ball did strike them because of your perception of the spirit of the rule?

[adanac]

If your fellow competitor inadvertently placed his golf clubs in a position where your
rolling ball might strike them, would you be happy accepting a penalty stroke if the ball did strike them because of your perception of the spirit of the rule?

This is often called the "good Samaritan" Rule because players used to rush over and move the flagstick laying on the green when it appeared a ball in motion might strike it. Such actions used to result in a penalty to the player who moved the flagstick. A common sense change for the better in my opinion.