GSA Golf Simulators Question

[joncrezk]

I have a quick question for the members here regarding GSA golf simulators. I have been reading posts on here for about 2 weeks now (there are a lot of them) about golf simulators. I really want a system that can read both club data and ball spin and I am on a pretty tight budget. I have come to the conclusion that GSA is probably the best system for me.

The problem is I have called them. I have e-mailed them 3 times (at sales@gsagolf and at info@gsagolf) and I have not gotten any responses in almost 2 weeks now. This really scares me to deal with a company that doesn't respond to a sales call even. I was wondering how you get in touch with them as I see people post about talking to Martin all the time about installation questions. Or is there a third party I can buy their hardware from that would support it (as I am worried about dealing with them direct now).

Thanks for your time.

[bubs3141]

I have a quick question for the members here regarding GSA golf simulators. I have been reading posts on here for about 2 weeks now (there are a lot of them) about golf simulators. I really want a system that can read both club data and ball spin and I am on a pretty tight budget. I have come to the conclusion that GSA is probably the best system for me.

The problem is I have called them. I have e-mailed them 3 times (at sales@gsagolf and at info@gsagolf) and I have not gotten any responses in almost 2 weeks now. This really scares me to deal with a company that doesn't respond to a sales call even. I was wondering how you get in touch with them as I see people post about talking to Martin all the time about installation questions. Or is there a third party I can buy their hardware from that would support it (as I am worried about dealing with them direct now).

Thanks for your time.

you have not read the thread too well then. GSA is not the system to buy. Just read all of the issues with it. I would look in other areas. What is your budget?

[joncrezk]

you have not read the thread too well then. GSA is not the system to buy. Just read all of the issues with it. I would look in other areas. What is your budget?

Well most the posts I saw talking about it said it wasn't perfect but for what it can capture and price it was a great deal. Anyways we are looking to stay under 9k total. I can do the Impact Screen and Build the net myself and use an old computer and projector if I can piece a system together. so that would save a lot of money.

The problem with the budget is my brother who is doing this with me wants us to have both club head information and ball launch information. Basically Club Angle and Ball Spin and Launch Angle and ball speed.

GSA was really the only one I could find in that budget range.

[stevnkrn]

I for one like my GSA system. I have a PX5 system which was recently discontinued, but works just fine for me. I will say setting it up was no picnic, and service, as you have already noticed, is spotty at best. Like you I had a tight budget. I used an existing computer and a projector I already had. I also bought raw impact screen cloth and had my wife add seams and put mounting straps on my screen. For what it cost I feel like I got a very good deal and a system I would put up against many others that are heavily promoting on this website. I certainly would not entertain an LX system yet, but the CX systems work a lot like my PX5. I have to assume they could work as well as mine once it is set up correctly. There are not many of us GSA guys left but I think there are a few that would do out best to help get you up and running if you want to take the plunge.

[Dax]

My thoughts are to stick with what your gut is telling you at the moment based off of your experience. Ensure you read the latest post on an LX system set-up and if you feel you would have an equal amount of patience, then consider that but if not perhaps keep looking. Also, do a youtube search for GSA and I think you will find one buyers thoughts on his not so good experience with this company.

[ZMax]

Before you jump in, pm wigalo. He bought a CX5 2 years ago. And yes, check out the YouTube video by Marcus.

Good luck.

[stevnkrn]

As much as I like my GSA PX5, which is only a two camera, plus floor sensor system, I have to agree that going with extra cameras available in the more "advanced" systems offered by GSA is not advised. The one exception to that is probably the line scan trigger camera which I think is probably workable with the right lighting. Martin has been trying to perfect using cameras to read ball spin and club data for a couple years. Every couple of months there seems a promising new way to go that he ends up abandoning in favor of something different. I personally would (and have) stay away from those. If you decide to stick with GSA I would go with the lower end systems like CX2. You save some money versus other systems like Protee or GC2 and will still have a relatively accurate system that is a lot of fun to play. The big downside of the CX2 is the lack of any spin data. The floor sensor on my PX5 reads club face angle and swing path. From that spin is estimated pretty accurately. With a CX2 you won't get that.

For the record, I do like many of the other systems available. If I had an unlimited budget I would definitely have looked elsewhere for a system. But if you are on a budget like I was, the hardware and software you get with GSA is a pretty good value. You just have to decide whether the spotty service is something you can live with.

[wigalo]

I think I may be ths most patient person on the face of this earth...About 2 years ago this month, I purchased Martin's Cx5.

I have the H and V cams. Upgraded to the line scan cam from the optical sensor to trigger both the H and V cams. I have pretty much been able to dial the H and V cams in. (When I do fire up my sim, It feels as though most of the data fed to the simulation software is only from these 2 cams)

I also have the clubcam. The clubcam is operational. I can get the control panel to pick up nice bright traces most of the time. The problem is sometimes the recognition software doesn't always interpret the clubhead properly. In all fairness, I could probably work with Martin a whole lot closer to trouble shoot my issues more. It's problematic in that he only reviews his emails 1 time per day and doesn't always answer the question asked or only answers 1 question at a time.

This past month I was bound and determined to finally get my system going and.. well he wore me out with not answering the question that I asked or flat ignoring the question. My takeaway...only ask 1 question per email and be extremely specific. Be prepared for him to answer it and be prepared to have to ask a follow for clarification, and also be prepared to only receive 1 answer per 24 hour period. Sometimes Saturday and Sunday are included in this cycle. Knowing this, I'm going to hit it again.

In my quest to get my system up and running, I figured that I'd dust my Bcam off and get it going. (The LX measures spin, why shouldn't my cx5? After all, when I purchased it 2 years ago, "...it would be ready in a couple of weeks with a control panel update.") Well I asked him about getting my flash module at no charge since my system was supposed to be operational in terms of hardware when I made my purchase and he quickly responded that every cx5 should have been shipped with the flash module and asked if I'd received one. I reminded him that I didn't, and explained that I thought that I deserved one at no charge since my system could have never worked as he sold it to me.

He ignored my requests after our original emails. I was persistent for 1 week, with no reply. Then I figured out that I could not ask more than 1 question in an email as it would go unanswered. (I was trouble shooting the Ccam at the same time).

I finally sent 3 more patiently worded emails directly asking how he would be taking care of my flash module issue. Finally after a couple of weeks from my initial inquiry, I get a response that will floor you all...any guesses? No, wrong ZMax, he didn't ask me to pay for it. Wrong again MLincoln, they aren't on backorder...his response "...I'm still working on a new design of the flash model."

Of course I've asked for an eta on completion of this new design, but no response. I can't make this stuff up.

I want to believe that Martin can make his gear work, but after reading the latest on the LX thread with Schaedj's attempt at a working system, coupled with the lack of a laser focused attempt by martin to perfect the current LX before moving on to the forward sitting LX unit, my optimism is waning that I will have a completely working system with my current set up in Martin's lifetime.

It's hard for me to admit this because I am stubborn, do my homework and really feel that I am a persistent enough problem solver that I don't typically have these types of setbacks...sometimes we just have to admit that we've made a bad decision and move on.

I've reached out to the used sim folks and inquired about a used About Golf with a 3 track ISU. Maybe if I can get them to sell it without the computer ( not sure if that's the only way they can get the software out), screen, projector and flooring AND take my cx5 in on trade, I can make it make some sense for me. I sent them a pricing request email on Monday and haven't received a response.

[joncrezk]

Wow I am very glad I posted here. I think I am going to stay away from GSA and accept that I need to spend a little more money to get what I want. Maybe go with a TruGolf unit and wait for the new Launch Monitor from Accusport to come out.

Thanks everyone so much I thought maybe I was just "crazy" and that this company didn't want to talk with me.

[bubba22]

You need to read much more. I would recommend looking at ProTee for sure.

[dmartyna]

Yep, its pretty sad. I have a px5 system and I really like it, I think it is 90% accurate to what I do on the course. It's odd that it was discontinued because for as long as I can remember it was listed as "the best selling GSA system".

I keep hoping for a spin cam and improvements to real putting but have mostly given up. (I don't putt on the system at all).

Martin must be independently wealthy!

[stevnkrn]

dmartyna experience is much like mine. I too feel my PX5 is very accurate and think it odd that Martin discontinued it in favor of all camera based systems. If the club and spin cameras worked I would like that too, but I just don't believe they are as reliable as what I have. I would consider upgrading. but not with the way things are now with GSA. Unlike dmartyna, I putt with my system. I don't use the "real putting" function because it is very poorly named. It doesn't feel real at all. I want to use the full length of my turf, which real putting doesn't allow. Putting with the GSA is probably not quite as accurate as a Protee with a putting sensor, but I find it reasonable accurate, and putting adds a lot to the feeling of playing real golf. What I want that Protee offers is online play. Martin has promised it (ad many other things), but never delivered.

[ZMax]

stevnkrn,

Online play is a whole new world. I haven't played a round by myself in a long time. Even my practice rounds are played with somebody. And Teamspeak also adds to the feel of playing against a real golfer and not some armchair golfer behind a 360 controller or a mouse. There's also the little nervousness that comes along with playing in a competition. i.e. a 200 yard 4 hybrid to an island green is even tougher when others are watching you.

One of the reason why I switch was the lack of innovation for the PX5 and GSA golf. To discontinue it is a bonehead move. And only answering one email person per day is unacceptable. He probably doesn't care because it's just a hobby for him. Shame...

[dmartyna]

On a side note, you can still get the sensor mat as a do it yourself item from Martin and create your own px5 system

[ChuckC]

I joined because, I too want to purchase a simulator before next winter. I have played on a Full Swing with E6, and it does not respond to a hard draw. Pull hooks, seem accurate, but If I try a draw (or a fade for that matter) around trees, it seems to hang up more than in real life. The TruGolf systems seem to be user friendly, and plug-n-play. Will it be as good as the Full Swing at the course I play? I have read a ton on this site, but I think I get more confused with every minute I read.

[bubs3141]

I joined because, I too want to purchase a simulator before next winter. I have played on a Full Swing with E6, and it does not respond to a hard draw. Pull hooks, seem accurate, but If I try a draw (or a fade for that matter) around trees, it seems to hang up more than in real life. The TruGolf systems seem to be user friendly, and plug-n-play. Will it be as good as the Full Swing at the course I play? I have read a ton on this site, but I think I get more confused with every minute I read.

Full swing only measures the ball (speed, launch angle) It does not measure spin unless you have the added spin camera. It does not measure anything to do with the club.

Trugolf measures the club (face angle, swing path, swing speed) ball (ball speed, launch angle)

So in theory Trugolf should be more accurate. I say in theory because no one will post there error tolerances other that foresight.

[ChuckC]

Full swing only measures the ball (speed, launch angle) It does not measure spin unless you have the added spin camera. It does not measure anything to do with the club.

Trugolf measures the club (face angle, swing path, swing speed) ball (ball speed, launch angle)

So in theory Trugolf should be more accurate. I say in theory because no one will post there error tolerances other that foresight.

I can play a Fade or a Draw on the Full Swing at the Course... So it does read spin... I just can't bend the ball as much on the Sim, as I can in real life (or so it seems)

[ChuckC]

I also am guessing that the P3 Proswing is not much better than the Optishot? I have found some on Ebay that are very reasonable, but I don't want to spend money on something I will hate...

[bubba22]

Chuck, Bubs I right. The Full Swing without the spin cam will estimate spin. In fact even with the spin cam, spin is estimated. You can play fades or draws with estimated spin.

[ChuckC]

I see... I really want a sim for next winter... I want to get something that functions well, and not over-spend

[bubba22]

I would recommend the ProTee. The online play is great. The sim is very accurate for all shot shapes.

[stevnkrn]

stevnkrn,

Online play is a whole new world. I haven't played a round by myself in a long time. Even my practice rounds are played with somebody. And Teamspeak also adds to the feel of playing against a real golfer and not some armchair golfer behind a 360 controller or a mouse. There's also the little nervousness that comes along with playing in a competition. i.e. a 200 yard 4 hybrid to an island green is even tougher when others are watching you.

One of the reason why I switch was the lack of innovation for the PX5 and GSA golf. To discontinue it is a bonehead move. His CX club systems are not accurate. And only answering one email person per day is unacceptable. He probably doesn't care because it's just a hobby for him. Shame...

ZMax, did you buy a whole new ProTee system when you switched from GSA, or did you figure out a way to use some of your GSA hardware with the ProTee system? I'd consider switching just for the online play, but buying everything new just isn't going to happen. If I could get the club sensor and software for a reasonable price, and use my GSA cameras it might be something to consider.

[ZMax]

stevnkrn, I sent you pm.

[wigalo]

I'm back...and this time with a good report. Last summer Martin sent me the spin cam flash module (for free) as well as completing and sending the sensitivity mod on the line scan camera (also for free). Since I wasn't too optimistic that either would work, I opened the box to make sure that they were both there and tossed them in the sim room.

Well as my game started to decline this winter with my golf buddies riding me about said decline and they couldn't understand it with a sim in my house, I got the itch at the annual attempt to get the old GSA sim operational.

I first mounted everything, then carefully went back through Martin's install instructions...by this time I noticed a couple of key things. One, the Control Panel seemed to be fully operational and two, he had a slightly different light placement for the H/V cams. Well to my incredible delight every single shot is captured by the line scan cam and every H/V cam streak was captured. In addition, prior to the new IR light placement, the VCam streak was so faint, that 60% of the time the recognition software would not pick up both ends of the streak. (I actually made two adjustments...1. per martin's instructions, I placed an IR light right beside the Vcam on the floor and angled it up about 30 degrees. 2. I have dark gray wall panels, so in the field of view across from the Vcam and newly installed IR light, I hung some black material left over from the screenwall of the theater) Just like that, I have nice, bright thick streaks that are captured every single time.

In addition, Martin added an option for the Club Cam to place 1 sticker on each club instead of two. For whatever reason, my setup had a bear of a time getting an accurate reading on irons with two dots. When I changed the irons to 1 dot, the consistency of picking up a valid streak went up exponentially. (Now it uses calculated club face angle... a ratio of ball flight to come up with club face angle at impact (15%) but I think it's a very fair trade off)

With these changes alone, the system is absolutely playable. The only problem is spin is estimated which means that the club has to be selected prior to each shot.

Spin Cam: I still don't have this operational yet and probably won't tinker with it anymore until after the SuperBowl... Go Hawks! (we're throwing a Superbowl party and will be having a closest to the pin contest) I've played around with it and I'm amazed that the flash mod actually brightens the ball strike area as designed. My problem is that I've had a tough time getting the ball recognition portion of the software to work as designed. The parts and pieces seem to be there, so I'm sure with a couple of emails to Martin I'll finally be truly operational.

After almost 4 years, I have a sim that I actually look forward to hitting on. In fact, with the help of the sim (club cam in particular) I've gone a long way to solving my driver that was consistently the worst club in my bag all of last summer. We had nice weather here in the Seattle yesterday so I actually had a chance to go out and play an actual round and I haven't struck the ball as nice in a couple of seasons.

I'm not sure exactly why it's working now, but it's probably a combination of the following.

1. Lighting. I've read all the guys with experience talking about the importance of getting the lighting JUST right. Trust me, it is extremely important.

2. Martin added a modification to get the line scan cam to allow the sensitivity to be turned up and now driver's to putts are all being picked up and not being missed.

3. The control panel software actually works as it's supposed to.

For the longest time I thought that my GSA sim was one of the worst investments that I've ever made. Now I'm extremely happy that I didn't scrap it.

Will keep you posted on the Spin cam. Also, now that I have a sim that works, I'll be updating my Sim Room. See my Enclosure thread for details....

[bubba22]

Congrats. You have more patience than the Pope. Hopefully the spin cam pans out. I'm actually down in Naples in a few weeks and will pay Martin a visit.

[northgolf]

Two good reports on GSA this month. Maybe Martin has actually gotten all the balls in the air for now. Bubba, I'll be interested to hear how your visit to Naples goes.

[dmartyna]

I have to admit I have a gsa system with sensor mat, (px5, mat and 2 cams) and I have been using it successfully for a few years now. It did take some tinkering at the beginning but typically once you have it set up it is very accurate. My shots on the course are well represented on the sim. I do wish there was a spin cam though and hope at some point this get properly developed and not at $2k.

Zmax, can the system be converted? Would be nice to have access to some of the better graphics software that is coming out.

[bubba22]

I have to admit I have a gsa system with sensor mat, (px5, mat and 2 cams) and I have been using it successfully for a few years now. It did take some tinkering at the beginning but typically once you have it set up it is very accurate. My shots on the course are well represented on the sim. I do wish there was a spin cam though and hope at some point this get properly developed and not at $2k.

Zmax, can the system be converted? Would be nice to have access to some of the better graphics software that is coming out.

What exactly do you mean converted?

[goatbarn]

I think he means converted to a Protee compatible system, or to at least be used with TGC....which I don't think will be possible given the two companies backgrounds...

[dmartyna]

Yes, goatbarn got it right, just wondering if my cameras and such could be used or if everything would need to be replaced. TGC would be great not withstanding the other sports that some of the sims offer. I am aware of the background of the two companies though.