The MAsters

[Kilroy]

:readheart Tiger :readheart


Sorry, I had to.

[Golfpeasant]

If I made that shot on purpose, I'd hardly defer it to LUCK in my interview.... Tiger did.

I post in OG Forums, but I am not making assumptions really. I am clearly posting what even TIGER has said about that shot, and people are arguing it based on what they THINK may exist in some deep subconscious recess of Tiger's mind.

Thank you. Exactly the point. Ask Tiger if he feels his putt on the play off hole was luck, he'd say "No way. I picked the line, I hit the speed, it was what I intended."

I'm sure theres a few people on here who are exceptional at one game or another, or several. I happen to be good at 8 ball. When I try a really complicated shot, Im playing with the hope that it goes in, but know my percentages are lower than other shots.

At the end, when someone says "Nice shot" after a 4 cushion, combo, Ill say "Thanks, but it was luck."

Whereas when I make a precision shot, Ill just say "thanks".

The difference: more times than not, Ill miss the complicated shot; more times than not, Ill MAKE the precision shot.

IF I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, than Tiger CERTAINLY knows the difference.

[broken27]

8-ball guy? We should rack a few up some day! I consider myself a decent shot, but usually stay away from 4-rail combo shots....

Quit my 8-ball league last year because of time constraints, but have been itching to get out for a night of pool...

LMK...

Dan

[davemiddle]

If I am not mistaken did not Phil lip out on the 18 at Doral- Chris lipped out on the 18 at the Masters

It great when you are as good as Tiger but it helps to get lucky

[Andru]

I made a mistake earlier it was Arnold Palmer who said this, not Gary Player

"It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get"

[leftee]

The guys hugging each other after Tiger made the shot on sixteen were priceless. The commentators even pointed them out. A true "Costanza" moment for the two of them.

[Golfpeasant]

I made a mistake earlier it was Arnold Palmer who said this, not Gary Player

"It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get"

I got it attributed to Sam Snead. It

[Golfpeasant]

8-ball guy? We should rack a few up some day! I consider myself a decent shot, but usually stay away from 4-rail combo shots....

If we ever meet, im always into a game.

[mberube]

Look what Tiger said at the ceremony on Sunday. It looks like luck was what mad him win all 4 jackets.

"Every year that I've been lucky enough to win this tournament, my dad's been there to give me a big hug. And today, he wasn't there," Woods said, his voice cracking and his eyes filling with tears. "I can't wait to get home and see him, and give him a big bear hug."

[kewarken]

I think that it might help to use the words 'lucky' and 'fortunate'. As someone above said, luck is shanking a ball off a tree and having it bounce back onto the green and into the hole. It's fortunate when you make a perfect chip and it just happens to roll into the hole. Tiger is saying 'luck' but he obviously doesn't mean 'blind fools luck', like winning the lottery.

cheers,

Kris

[Kilroy]

Isn't it the case that in some eastern cultures it is poor manners to take credit for achievements, and more proper to humbly say "I have been very lucky to get to this point"?

[broken27]

Isn't it the case that in some eastern cultures it is poor manners to take credit for achievements, and more proper to humbly say "I have been very lucky to get to this point"?

Maybe, but Tiger is American. I don't even think he's from Eastern USA...

mberube - I would say that he HAS been "lucky enough" to win the 4 green jackets. Luck PLUS skill is required at that level. There's tourneys where one lucky bounce, or fortunate break, or unlucky situation can change the complexion of the whole thing. It's like that in every sport, although in golf it's more individual, so skill can in effect create its own luck. Again, never took anything away from Tiger's game.

Dan

[mberube]

Isn't it the case that in some eastern cultures it is poor manners to take credit for achievements, and more proper to humbly say "I have been very lucky to get to this point"?

That’s what I think Dan. If Tiger was really thinking of making that chip and would have said it in the conference room he would of looked very portentous.

If I was in his shoes and made that chip while trying to, I would also say that it’s luck.

[Kilroy]

Tiger's mom is from Thailand.

[broken27]

That’s what I think Dan. If Tiger was really thinking of making that chip and would have said it in the conference room he would of looked very portentous.

If I was in his shoes and made that chip while trying to, I would also say that it’s luck.

If I were in his shoes, I'd tell my caddy "I'm gonna drop it in the hole", just so there was a witness to it. When I try to make chip shots go in, I call my shot. That way, if I get it, I can say "ask Johnny, I called that!"

Doesn't happen often enough in my case to be a major factor though.

Dan

[Golfpeasant]

I guess Tiger was intending to hit the flag and bounce into the bunker. I guess he intended to shoot 74 day one. I guess he likes snap hooking it into the woods. I guess he liked taking 2 years off. Tiger is a god. Tiger makes life happen. Tiger is secretly posting under various names in this forum.

[broken27]

I guess Tiger was intending to hit the flag and bounce into the bunker. I guess he intended to shoot 74 day one. I guess he likes snap hooking it into the woods. I guess he liked taking 2 years off. Tiger is a god. Tiger makes life happen. Tiger is secretly posting under various names in this forum.

LMFAO!!! Hit the nail on the head there bud!

Dan

[Kilroy]

Tiger makes life happen.

Well, as a Tiger " moderate" I think that knowing a great shot when I see one is simply respectful. The extremists can deal with that nonsense.

[broken27]

Well, as a Tiger " moderate" I think that knowing a great shot when I see one is simply respectful. The extremists can deal with that nonsense.

Nobody denied the greatness of the shot.

Dan

[mberube]

If I were in his shoes, I'd tell my caddy "I'm gonna drop it in the hole", just so there was a witness to it. When I try to make chip shots go in, I call my shot. That way, if I get it, I can say "ask Johnny, I called that!"

Doesn't happen often enough in my case to be a major factor though.

Dan

I try to make everything and I never tell anybody « I am going slam this one in ». I always say that I was lucky. Then my playing partners say that I was the luckiest b@stard out there!

[NoBack]

I guess Tiger was intending to hit the flag and bounce into the bunker. I guess he intended to shoot 74 day one. I guess he likes snap hooking it into the woods. I guess he liked taking 2 years off. Tiger is a god. Tiger makes life happen. Tiger is secretly posting under various names in this forum.

Exactly!!!

[Andru]

I guess Tiger was intending to hit the flag and bounce into the bunker. I guess he intended to shoot 74 day one. I guess he likes snap hooking it into the woods. I guess he liked taking 2 years off. Tiger is a god. Tiger makes life happen. Tiger is secretly posting under various names in this forum.

Sarcasm. Are you waving the white flag already?

I get it now. If you don't like Tiger ( for whatever childish reason ) The shot was luck. Or "pure luck". If you like Tiger is was a great result from a great shot.

I guess the debate is the definition of luck. Can winning the lottery and Tiger's chip both be considered good luck. To me No.

The lottery winner other than randomly picking numbers has no influence on the outcome of the draw. While Tiger has a major influence on the outcome of that shot.

If we can't agree on the difinition of luck you can't draw any conclusions from this discussion. We're applying a different set of rules to a situation and coming up with diffrent results it's not the conclusions that are busted, it's the formula. Let's agree on a formula and apply it.

[broken27]

Andru, I suppose Immelman's ace on 16 (or wherever) was pure skill as well? That's the point... To be as good as these guys, you will need to have exceptional skill (which they do, and nobody is taking that away from Tiger in this debate), as well as a certain degree of luck. In hockey, they call it "bounces" or "breaks", likely to avoid the word "luck" specifically.

Is "good fortune" the same as "luck"? Without going to a dictionary, I'll assume there are finer points where the two differ. If that is the agreed to formula, I'd say Tiger was the beneficiary of good fortune rather than lucky. Of course, this assumes that "luck" means walking @ss-backwards into a good outcome.

There's no doubt that Tiger himself called himself "lucky" that the ball went in. Regardless of that extra half-revolution of the ball, it was a hell of a shot! The sinking of the ball is essentially where I say "good fortune" played a role.

Dan

[Andru]

Andru, I suppose Immelman's ace on 16 (or wherever) was pure skill as well? That's the point... To be as good as these guys, you will need to have exceptional skill (which they do, and nobody is taking that away from Tiger in this debate), as well as a certain degree of luck. In hockey, they call it "bounces" or "breaks", likely to avoid the word "luck" specifically.

Is "good fortune" the same as "luck"? Without going to a dictionary, I'll assume there are finer points where the two differ. If that is the agreed to formula, I'd say Tiger was the beneficiary of good fortune rather than lucky. Of course, this assumes that "luck" means walking @ss-backwards into a good outcome.

There's no doubt that Tiger himself called himself "lucky" that the ball went in. Regardless of that extra half-revolution of the ball, it was a hell of a shot! The sinking of the ball is essentially where I say "good fortune" played a role.
Dan

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

I can go with good fortune because it implies there's an element of skill involved. Just as immelmans ace. I've always defined luck as a fluke. To enter another word into the equation.

So we agree tiger's shot on 16 was a well executed shot. That fact that it rolled in the hole was good fortune given slightly slower greens, wind, a diffrerent person cutting the hole etc, may have caused the ball to sit on the edge rather than fall in the hole. That sounds completely reasonable.


Just to clear things up. Yes Tiger did say it was lucky. But he's also said he was lucky to win 9 majors or 3 Amateur titles. I think he's being more humble than anything. You guys never take anything tiger says literally why start now?

[Kilroy]

OMG peace has broken out!

[Colby]

OMG peace has broken out!

Hahahaha, wait for more Stonebridge rumours

[Andru]

OMG peace has broken out!

I know peace is a thread killer

but the discussions are far more civil and productive.

[Kilroy]

It proves that disagreeing politely is possible and enlightening. Bashing just upsets people.

[broken27]

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

I can go with good fortune because it implies there's an element of skill involved. Just as immelmans ace. I've always defined luck as a fluke. To enter another word into the equation.

So we agree tiger's shot on 16 was a well executed shot. That fact that it rolled in the hole was good fortune given slightly slower greens, wind, a diffrerent person cutting the hole etc, may have caused the ball to sit on the edge rather than fall in the hole. That sounds completely reasonable.


Just to clear things up. Yes Tiger did say it was lucky. But he's also said he was lucky to win 9 majors or 3 Amateur titles. I think he's being more humble than anything. You guys never take anything tiger says literally why start now?

See, when someone says "lucky to win 9 majors", I don't assume they meant "I won them on luck alone". I take it to mean "things may have worked out differently if someone else had caught the same breaks I did, or I didn't catch the ones I got". In any elite-level activity, from sports to music to business or whatever, you need a bit of "good fortune" to go from "very good" to "best". It could be the order in which a contract tender is opened, it could be having the right agent in the audience for a concert, it could mean the wind tips the ball over into the hole for you while DiMarco's ball lips out on 18. Whatever it is, it certainly can't ALL be ascribed to skill.

If you go back to my initial post, I think I was fairly clear in NOT taking anything away from Tiger's shot or ability. In fact, my anti-Tiger posts overall tend to acknowledge his skill while frowning on his antics.

Glad we at least agree on the conceptual definition of "luck" as pertains to this thread...

Dan

[Golfpeasant]

Sarcasm. Are you waving the white flag already?

I get it now. If you don't like Tiger ( for whatever childish reason ) The shot was luck. Or "pure luck". If you like Tiger is was a great result from a great shot.

I guess the debate is the definition of luck. Can winning the lottery and Tiger's chip both be considered good luck. To me No.

The lottery winner other than randomly picking numbers has no influence on the outcome of the draw. While Tiger has a major influence on the outcome of that shot.

If we can't agree on the difinition of luck you can't draw any conclusions from this discussion. We're applying a different set of rules to a situation and coming up with diffrent results it's not the conclusions that are busted, it's the formula. Let's agree on a formula and apply it.

You're right, and on top of that, like Tiger, you'll always be right.



Just teasing. FYI: I'm a Tiger FAN. I just don't like the over the top brown nosing I see in the media, on shows like "the grey goose" (pathetic), and here.