The MAsters

[Big_duck]

I think the biggest winner(besides Tiger) yesterday is NIKE golf. The close up on the ball slowing falling into the hole and seeing the NIKE swoosh...this shot will be re-played over and over again. NIKE can't buy publicity like it. Is Tiger's contract with NIKE expiring soon? It would be good timing...

Great finish to a great tournament. Fore!

I can see the ad now -

Tigers ball sitting there then slowly rolling in the hole. Voice over: "Nike, we go one more turn".

[broken27]

The shot on 16 was just incredible. Call it lucky? ( He didn't shank it off the grand stands, that's luck) He played a great pitch up the slope, Stopped it with spin, and it rolled back towards the hole. Did he expect it to go in? Probably not, but he executed a fantastic shot at the Masters with Dimarco breathing down his back. If he had skulled it or chili dipped it. It's not going near the hole. Probably one fo the best of all time. Sam Snead's 2 on 15 is probably the best.

Was an incredible shot, but even Tiger's look as it went in TOLD everyone how the shot was LUCKY to go in. Great players will create their own luck, and that shot was luck and nothing more. I'm sure he meant to put it as close as possible, but didn't think it would go in... Of course, you'd have to ask him. I haven't watched any post-Masters interviews, because I care nothing for what these people have to say after the fact, but I'd be willing to bet that he has a lot of "I meant to put it into tap in range, but seeing it drop was awesome" kind of comments....

Either way, was a fairly exciting tourney. Just too bad there wasn't a bigger chasing group.

Dan

[Kilroy]

that shot was luck and nothing more.

Nothing more than luck? In any chip you put the ball as close as possible, sometimes we get "lucky" and it goes in. It takes a lot of skill to see a line like that, and play the shot under preassure. Yes he was delighted to see it fall in after dying on the lip, but "luck and nothing more" is denying the skill.

If ya skull it, bounce off a tree and into the hole, that's "luck and nothing more"

BTW, Davis Love made an almost identical shot from a bit further down the hill, but without the "hanging logo" . I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before. It was spectacular too.

I definately would have rather seen the other players shots than DiMarco and Woods sitting around.

[Colby]

You have to be good to be lucky. It was a very good shot that executed as he envisioned it. He tried to put it close, and you can't get any closer than that.

[broken27]

Nothing more than luck? In any chip you put the ball as close as possible, sometimes we get "lucky" and it goes in. It takes a lot of skill to see a line like that, and play the shot under preassure. Yes he was delighted to see it fall in after dying on the lip, but "luck and nothing more" is denying the skill.

If ya skull it, bounce off a tree and into the hole, that's "luck and nothing more"

BTW, Davis Love made an almost identical shot from a bit further down the hill, but without the "hanging logo" . I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before. It was spectacular too.

I definately would have rather seen the other players shots than DiMarco and Woods sitting around.

Then I guess I'll be denying talent... You tell me, do you try to put that in, or close? I would guess that like most of us would, Tiger was trying to leave it for a tap in. Sinking it was LUCK.

I guarantee you he'll say the same.

Dan

[Kilroy]

I guarantee you he'll say the same.

OK, but I thought you didn't care what they say after the round.

[Andru]

Then I guess I'll be denying talent... You tell me, do you try to put that in, or close? I would guess that like most of us would, Tiger was trying to leave it for a tap in. Sinking it was LUCK.

I guarantee you he'll say the same.

Dan

Fine but unlike most of us he actually gets it close enough to have a chance of going in and that, is not luck.

[Golfpeasant]

Luck would be aiming somewhere else and having the ball bounce back into the cup. I am not a Tiget fan, at all, but he looked at the shot from every angle and knew where he had to hit it. That he did and the great birdie was the reward. Now if its luck that made it go into the hole, then what shot isn't luck in golf.
Denny

TIGER WOODS SAID, in post interview, paraphrased: I never intended it to go in, I saw Dimarco threatening a birdie, I wanted to make sure I put it into position for a par...that it went in was lucky. He even referenced remembering the SAME SHOT THAT DAVIS LOVE THE III made.

The notion that he alone could make that shot is silly.

[dbleber]

TIGER WOODS SAID, in post interview, paraphrased: I never intended it to go in, I saw Dimarco threatening a birdie, I wanted to make sure I put it into position for a par...that it went in was lucky. He even referenced remembering the SAME SHOT THAT DAVIS LOVE THE III made.

The notion that he alone could make that shot is silly.

I didn't say that he was the only one that could make that shot. I think that there are even guys on here who could make that shot, maybe not under that pressure but skill wise it was a pitch shot and given the proper read and picking the right line it would be doable. Tiger can say what he wants to the camera but I think we all hit shots with the intention of sinking them. The fact that it went in was a bonus, luck is something that you have no control over and a something good comes out of it. Tiger was in control of his own destiny, if he woud have missed would that make it luck for Dimarco? I guess it is all how you look at it.
For the record I am not a Tiger fan and it hurts me to post in his defence.
Denny

[Kilroy]

The notion that he alone could make that shot is silly.

I don't think that's what was being said.

[el tigre]

TIGER WOODS SAID, in post interview, paraphrased: I never intended it to go in, I saw Dimarco threatening a birdie, I wanted to make sure I put it into position for a par...that it went in was lucky. He even referenced remembering the SAME SHOT THAT DAVIS LOVE THE III made.

What I found interesting and rather ironic was comparing this shot to DiMarco's chip on the 18th (just before he forced the playoff). Although closer to the pin than TW's, it was also a very tricky chip shot that seemed to actually be dropping into the hole and then popped out. If it had stayed in, DiMarco would have won the tournament with a chip-in on the last hole and THAT is the shot everyone would be talking about.

It is truly a cruel game.

[Hank Hill]

Luck is too strong a word for me. He read the green, picked his club, picked his landing area where it would funnel back towards the hole and executed his shot. He did everything right and the fact that the ball went into the hole is "good fortune". He set himself up to get as close as possible and it was his good fortune that it eventually rolled into the cup. A lucky shot would be,if he picked his landing area and then bladed it, but it went straight at the hole, hit the flagstick and in. In that circumstance he wouldn't have intended to hole out in that fashion and did so as a result of luck.

[Andru]

TIGER WOODS SAID, in post interview, paraphrased: I never intended it to go in, I saw Dimarco threatening a birdie, I wanted to make sure I put it into position for a par...that it went in was lucky. He even referenced remembering the SAME SHOT THAT DAVIS LOVE THE III made.

The notion that he alone could make that shot is silly.

ZWho said anything about Tiger being the only one that could hit that shot?

[EDSGOLF]

If Jack Nicklaus or Arnold Palmer were to hit Tiger's shot on #16, everybody in the world would have said only good things about it (ie: Greatest shot ever), but since it was Tiger then some people will say otherwise and call it lucky and easy. Heck, even Tiger called it lucky in his press conference! It was a great shot if I would have done at Pineview , or if Annika did on the LPGA, or if Bill Murray did at Pebble Beach or even if Tiger did it

[davevandyk]

If Jack Nicklaus or Arnold Palmer were to hit Tiger's shot on #16, everybody in the world would have said only good things about it (ie: Greatest shot ever), but since it was Tiger then some people will say otherwise and call it lucky and easy. Heck, even Tiger called it lucky in his press conference! It was a great shot if I would have done at Pineview , or if Annika did on the LPGA, or if Bill Murray did at Pebble Beach or even if Tiger did it

I completely agree that it was one of the best shots at the Masters, given the fact that it meant so much to the eventual outcome. There hasn't been many better shots that contributed to the winner. Not many of the guys who had hole-in-one's or made double eagles were eventually winners or runner-ups.

On the other hand, the shot was both great and lucky. Tiger said it himself, he just picked a spot where he thought it would give him a chance to make the next shot for par. I found it qutie impressive that out of that lie, he said he hit the exact spot on the green that he was trying to hit. The rest of the shot was luck though, I can say this as a huge Tiger fan. I would have said the same for Jack or Arnie, the amazing part is the fact that he had the imagination to pick the perfect spot, some 25 feet left of the hole where it would have a chance to get close. Its not easy to pcik a spot that far from the cup and trust that its the correct spot to hit too!!! Great execution, led to one of the most meaningful hole-outs in Masters history!

[dbleber]

I completely agree that it was one of the best shots at the Masters, given the fact that it meant so much to the eventual outcome. There hasn't been many better shots that contributed to the winner. Not many of the guys who had hole-in-one's or made double eagles were eventually winners or runner-ups.

On the other hand, the shot was both great and lucky. Tiger said it himself, he just picked a spot where he thought it would give him a chance to make the next shot for par. I found it qutie impressive that out of that lie, he said he hit the exact spot on the green that he was trying to hit. The rest of the shot was luck though, I can say this as a huge Tiger fan. I would have said the same for Jack or Arnie, the amazing part is the fact that he had the imagination to pick the perfect spot, some 25 feet left of the hole where it would have a chance to get close. Its not easy to pcik a spot that far from the cup and trust that its the correct spot to hit too!!! Great execution, led to one of the most meaningful hole-outs in Masters history!

To be picky, if he picked the line and hit it on the exact spot on the green he was trying to hit, how can that be luck? Well executed with a good result yes, but luck? I think the word luck is just not right in this situation.
Denny

[broken27]

OK, but I thought you didn't care what they say after the round.

Read the rest of that sentence in my initial post Dan... It's very consistent with what I posted in the second.

Andru - Sticking it close enough to have a chance of it dropping is skill. It going an extra half revolution to actually drop is LUCK. Clearly if he had the skill to make that shot on purpose, he'd be posting -18 on almost every round of golf he played. I'm surprised that a Tiger supporter can't just accept the NICE things I said about his game (for a change, since I hate the guy) and move on. You have to pick apart even a positive post....

Screw it.... Enough trying to be nice.... I hate Tiger, and hope he never makes another cut and becomes the next Duval.

I find it hilarious that some people are arguing that Tiger's own comments about that shot have no validity... Yeah, you all know better than him about what HE CONSIDERED A LUCKY RESULT on a good shot..... That's why he's out playing the Masters and you guys are posting in Ottawagolf forums....

Dan

[davevandyk]

To be picky, if he picked the line and hit it on the exact spot on the green he was trying to hit, how can that be luck? Well executed with a good result yes, but luck? I think the word luck is just not right in this situation.
Denny

the only reason i say that it was luck is the fact that Tiger himself said he picked a spot on the green, so that if he hit that exact spot, it would give him a good chance of making the next shot for par. He said his "best" result would have been to put his ball inside DiMarco's ball to put a little pressure on him. That's why i call the fact that the ball went in "luck". If Tiger said " I picked out a spot where i thought, if i just hit that spot the ball will likely go in" then i would say it was 100% skill. Right now i would have to give him 95% skill for hitting the spot and 5% luck for rolling perfectly into the hole!

[Kilroy]

I find some of the pro - anti Tiger stuff funny, and personally I am not on either side. I like to watch him, but not just because he's in the field. When he plays well, I wanna see the excietment.

I hate Tiger, and hope he never makes another cut

That's pretty harsh. No bias then eh

[dbleber]

..... That's why he's out playing the Masters and you guys are posting in Ottawagolf forums....

Dan

And which of the 2 do you do?

What else are we supposed to do? There are only a couple of courses open and working is no fun, reading and posting seems like a better option! Besides it should all be takin as good fun since there is no real answer.
Denny

[broken27]

And which of the 2 do you do?

What else are we supposed to do? There are only a couple of courses open and working is no fun, reading and posting seems like a better option! Besides it should all be takin as good fun since there is no real answer.
Denny

How is there not an answer? People have posted his own comments from after the tourney. Yet, some people are talking about "when the cameras is on..." nonsense. If I made that shot on purpose, I'd hardly defer it to LUCK in my interview.... Tiger did.

I post in OG Forums, but I am not making assumptions really. I am clearly posting what even TIGER has said about that shot, and people are arguing it based on what they THINK may exist in some deep subconscious recess of Tiger's mind.

It would be taken in good fun by me, but sadly the Tiger supporters who always b|tch and moan about my negativity towards Tiger are now arguing even when I give him some credit. It's like elementary school....

Dan

[NoBack]

Broken, you said it best here.............

Clearly if he had the skill to make that shot on purpose, he'd be posting -18 on almost every round of golf he played. I'm surprised that a Tiger supporter can't just accept the NICE things I said about his game (for a change, since I hate the guy) and move on. You have to pick apart even a positive post....

I also agree with the fact that if Tiger said it was lucky then accept it guys, cause when he speaks you should listen.

And btw, what about Immelman's shot on 16? Luck or skill?

[broken27]

Broken, you said it best here.............

And btw, what baout Immelman's shot on 16? Luck or skill?

Apparently all skill... Oh wait, it's not Woods we're talking about...



Dan

[Andru]

the only reason i say that it was luck is the fact that Tiger himself said he picked a spot on the green, so that if he hit that exact spot, it would give him a good chance of making the next shot for par. He said his "best" result would have been to put his ball inside DiMarco's ball to put a little pressure on him. That's why i call the fact that the ball went in "luck". If Tiger said " I picked out a spot where i thought, if i just hit that spot the ball will likely go in" then i would say it was 100% skill. Right now i would have to give him 95% skill for hitting the spot and 5% luck for rolling perfectly into the hole!

Here's my point and please understand I get yours.

If Tiger had hit the same shot and it was rolling a 1/2 inch left of the hole and a beatle crawls in front and redirects it into the hole. I'd say that's good luck. If it redirects the thing out of the hole. It's bad luck.

Untimately Tiger was trying to put the ball as close to the hole as possible. The fact that it went in means he hit a perfect shot. If he makes a 99% shot it stops on the lip. If he makes a 40% shot it's on the top ridge and doesn't come back. He did everything to get that ball to the right spot. It was skill that got the ball rolling on the right line to the hole.

We just disagree on the definition of luck.

[Andru]

Broken, you said it best here.............

I also agree with the fact that if Tiger said it was lucky then accept it guys, cause when he speaks you should listen.

And btw, what about Immelman's shot on 16? Luck or skill?

Without a doubt skill. He played right of the hole so the ball would roll towards the hole. that's how most people play it. He just hit a perfect shot.

[broken27]

Here's my point and please understand I get yours.

If Tiger had hit the same shot and it was rolling a 1/2 inch left of the hole and a beatle crawls in front and redirects it into the hole. I'd say that's good luck. If it redirects the thing out of the hole. It's bad luck.

Untimately Tiger was trying to put the ball as close to the hole as possible. The fact that it went in means he hit a perfect shot. If he makes a 99% shot it stops on the lip. If he makes a 40% shot it's on the top ridge and doesn't come back. He did everything to get that ball to the right spot. It was skill that got the ball rolling on the right line to the hole.

We just disagree on the definition of luck.

Willing to accept a difference of opinion on what LUCK really is.... But, hitting a perfect shot means you have combined skill AND luck. Phil had a birdie chance or perhaps even eagle (can't recall) that looked like it hit a bug, so I can relate to your example as well....

But, Tiger didn't hit any other perfect shots all day, and SAID HIMSELF that the ball dropping on 16 was luck... Obviously he was trying to put it close, otherwise he's really missing the point of the game. From the commentators, it's one of the most unlikely places on the hole to make a birdie from, and he did it. He is quoted as saying he meant to get inside DiMarco, not put it in. Take his comments for face value. He'd know better than ANY of us.... Myself included.

Dan

[Andru]

Willing to accept a difference of opinion on what LUCK really is.... But, hitting a perfect shot means you have combined skill AND luck. Phil had a birdie chance or perhaps even eagle (can't recall) that looked like it hit a bug, so I can relate to your example as well....

But, Tiger didn't hit any other perfect shots all day, and SAID HIMSELF that the ball dropping on 16 was luck... Obviously he was trying to put it close, otherwise he's really missing the point of the game. From the commentators, it's one of the most unlikely places on the hole to make a birdie from, and he did it. He is quoted as saying he meant to get inside DiMarco, not put it in. Take his comments for face value. He'd know better than ANY of us.... Myself included.

Dan

That's a fair. Correction he did hit a perfect putt to win the playoff.

[Hank Hill]

... and a beatle crawls in front...

Maybe it was Paul McCartney...

[broken27]

That's a fair. Correction he did hit a perfect putt to win the playoff.

Agreed, but I consider putting a whole seperate beast. I do not consider putting "shot making". Chipping, yes, and obviously anything farther away than a chip as well. Tiger's putting was uncomfortably solid (from my Tiger-hater POV) through the last round. I honestly expected him to start lipping putts the way he has over the last two seasons. Especially when he got all pissed off at missing a putt. Usually when he starts to show signs of frustration, the collapse is on. He held it together very admirably.

.... and that's the last nice thing I'm saying about Tiger for this week!!!!

Dan

[Kilroy]

I love spring. BRING ON THE GOLF SEASON!!!!!