NEW Earnest Sports ES14 Launch Monitor for only $499?!?!?

[bubba22]

I completely agree Fran's. Like ZMax says, Zelocity like unit. Good luck to those that buy one!

[golfun]

Frans I was only repeating what they said. It doesn't matter if it works or not, unless some of you own simulator companies??...

Your overlooking one factor tho, they did compare it to the GC2. Anybody see it work side by side before it died is the real proof in the pudding. Please read again tho that it's another product and whether it works or not who knows, but it would be nice to see some testing.

Frans you are right tho, most of these companies read off incorrect or misleading statements and until you get the right member they won't clarify... sad really.

[Frans@france]

Frans I was only repeating what they said. It doesn't matter if it works or not, unless some of you own simulator companies??...

Your overlooking one factor tho, they did compare it to the GC2. Anybody see it work side by side before it died is the real proof in the pudding. Please read again tho that it's another product and whether it works or not who knows, but it would be nice to see some testing.

I understand that you are only repeating what they said. In no way it was meant as a negative remark towards you I only wanted to point out that the real functioning of this machine is like a moving target.


And someone did write down some cg2 data compared to the es14
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/...4#entry8535949

[Par2Pro]

Was at the show, but didn't get to compare it with the GC2 - I will do that as soon as it gets here

[golfun]

Thanks for the link Frans!

Seem like it could actually work well, depending on the club and all. But still real testing needs to be done. Thanks PAR2PRO! Can't wait to see your findings.

[throttle]

Was at the show, but didn't get to compare it with the GC2 - I will do that as soon as it gets here

Very much interested in your testing! I actually pre-ordered, hope I didn't make a mistake. Here is my delima, I am looking for a tool to help calibrate my optishot. I am looking for accurate data in regards to swing speed, ball speed and close enough estimate on carry distance. I know the optishot is not that accurate, but I would like to tweak it to be as good as I can get it. I have a swing byte but users on here say its garbage so I don't even know if I can trust just its club head speed. I had the es12 (already unloaded it on ebay after I heard of the es14) and was impressed with your video comparing it to the GC2, however it lacked club head speed. If you can validate that the club head and ball speed are accurate, I think I will be a happy camper. Let us know what you find out once you get it.

[golfun]

Let's say "if" this "launch monitor" actually could read +/- 3 degrees launch angle; then wouldn't it be a somewhat reasonable add-on to the P3 or Opti?
Example:
Let's say your average driver launch angle is 14 degrees. It's hard coded in P3 or Opti at 14.
Then you hit a shot that launches 20 degrees higher (34 total). The Sim will Still read 14 degrees. Which is way off.
If the ES14 was integrated it would read between 31-37 degrees. That is an immensely improved and closer reading.

Of course it could not work lol But that could be nice improvement for $450.

[FaultyClubs]

Let's say "if" this "launch monitor" actually could read +/- 3 degrees launch angle; then wouldn't it be a somewhat reasonable add-on to the P3 or Opti?

But it doesn't "read" launch angle, now does it? So you are making up a totally fictitious device and then further speculating that it could improve things.

As I posted earlier they clearly said in writing it only measures ball speed and clubhead speed. That's less than what the Optishot does.

I understand the need to dream...but the repeated ignoring of reality seems a bit excessive in this thread.

[throttle]

Wow such hate for something never tested yet... How about we wait until Cory compares this thing to a real launch monitor before we call it crap. Did anyone see his video on the ES12 where he compared it to a GC2 with HMT? It was pretty close... Honestly I don't care what is measured vs what is calculated as long as it is accurate or close "in class" considering it's price rage. After all most science/physics is calculations based on theory later proven by experiment... If some company is able to figure out ball flight with some fancy math and it works against "real measurements" then that's good enough for me.

[golfun]

If some company is able to figure out ball flight with some fancy math and it works against "real measurements" then that's good enough for me.

throttle- perfectly said!!

If it's obtaining a fairly accurate LA number from direct ball measurements or from calculations, it's obtaining an fairly LA accurate reading! And for only $450. Nothing is even close, and it's actually affordable.

[FaultyClubs]

Wow such hate for something never tested yet... How about we wait until Cory compares this thing to a real launch monitor before we call it crap.

Hate? Crap? Your words dude, not mine! You guys sure do make things up!!! And that vitriol was "well said"??? Yikes!!!!

I understand you guys *desperately* want to believe they've come up with some higher math to make gold out of dirt...but this device doesn't really measure all that much. There is no rational reason to think it will outperform other devices that are similarly "guessing" at the parameters.

[throttle]

Faulty not trying to start a pissing match and yes if this thing does not work I will be the first one to call it a piece of junk so no worries. Just awaiting Cory's testing results before I officially think its a good or bad device. Based off what I saw in his video comparing the ES12 to a GC2 with HMT this device may have a place in the market or it may not. Time will tell...

[SFR]

The big thing to understand here is that if the unit has to have the club entered to to give you the LA, it may just be a set degree that will not change for that club. And if you hit the club like you should, yes then the LA degree may be accurate to a couple degrees. But if you punch that same iron and de loft the face and get 1/4 of the LA on the real shot, the question is will that device give you a lower LA readout or will it still show the one that was pre set?

If it can some how calculate that punch and come up with a number that was a lot lower than a perfect hit ball then it may be worth it. I would think it would not be able to do this but we will see when tested.

[bubba22]

You need to select the horizontal direction (straight, left or right) and club. Selecting th horizontal seems silly to me. You can change the different club lofts. My guesse is that they will adjust the ball launch angle based on the ball speed and smash factor. Total spin will be based on ball speed and club selected. Don't expect 100% accuracy. It may be acceptable for some folks. I highly doubt it will get integrated with P3Pro or Optishot.

[HoganWoods]

I can't imagine this thing is accurate unless you hit like a robot. Even if you enter all the club data, every person delivers the club at impact with varying degrees of dynamic loft. This alone causes issues. I guess if a robot swung each club at its intended loft and hit the sweet spot each time, you could do something like this.

[clubchampx9]

I tested this unit at the Merchandise show while the GC2 sitting directly next to it was still working and the comparative numbers were almost identical. I actually felt bad for the folks at the GC2 booth which was only 50 yards away having their multi-thousand dollar launch monitor compared to the show special $350 unit actually show similar results. I ordered one at the show and it is scheduled to be delivered the 1st week in March, I will report back.

[northgolf]

I tested this unit at the Merchandise show while the GC2 sitting directly next to it was still working and the comparative numbers were almost identical. I actually felt bad for the folks at the GC2 booth which was only 50 yards away having their multi-thousand dollar launch monitor compared to the show special $350 unit actually show similar results. I ordered one at the show and it is scheduled to be delivered the 1st week in March, I will report back.

How did it do on mis hits (two words to avoid censor)?

[clubchampx9]

How did it do on mis hits (two words to avoid censor)?

Sorry I didn't pay much attention to those shots but both units showed a "bad" shot

[leftylucas]

For the recreational golfer wanting to see his actual yardages and gaps between clubs this is ideal. I would not use it indoors so much as outdoors where I can see my ball flight and know how well I hit each shot. I just got the ES12 on Valentine's day and I am anxious to use it during my practice sessions. I also downloaded the free app for android to use with it, it practice session history and you can even delete mis to get an better estimate of good shots with each club.

[golfun]

That's the big question, does it read punch, flop shots and mis hits well?

[Golfmaxxx]

Is there any courses to play and does it have online play ?

[hobokengolf]

No...absolutely not. My livelihood depends on this sort of thing - so much like Cory I was at the show to test a few things. I didn't take videos because I'm not a reseller - but I use this technology professional and make my living with it.

I did the same exact test - the two units are completely different.

GC2 measures the spin. Its very good so long as the unit is orthogonal.
ES14 uses a calculation for spin.

GC2 measures launch angle.
ES14 uses a calculation for launch angle.

Hit a punch shot:
The GC2 measures a low shot with low spin.
The ES14 measures a high shot that was poorly struck.

Two pros for the ES14:
GC2 can not calculate smash factor without HMT - ES14 can.
ES14 is $500. GC2 is $6750.

ES14 is something I am planning to carry as an item to sell to my customers - I plan to do this once they stop their 'distributors' from selling the item at wholesale cost on ebay (not really happening with the ES14, but was constantly happening with ES12).

GC2 is something I am using for fittings and teaching golf. I can even rent it to someone to use to practice in one of my hitting bays and easily get $30 per hour.

I tested this unit at the Merchandise show while the GC2 sitting directly next to it was still working and the comparative numbers were almost identical. I actually felt bad for the folks at the GC2 booth which was only 50 yards away having their multi-thousand dollar launch monitor compared to the show special $350 unit actually show similar results. I ordered one at the show and it is scheduled to be delivered the 1st week in March, I will report back.

[goatbarn]

Yes, the ES14 is nothing like the GC2. It only measures 2 things: club head speed and ball speed. Everything else is calculated.

Actually, ball speed is the only thing that is used to generate a distance estimate out of those 2, since club head speed has nothing to do with ball flight. So knowing that you need ball speed, launch angle, spin and spin axis for a true genuine ball flight....1 out of 4 is bad.

I don't think anyone with a GC2 would ever feel bad that they didn't wait to buy an ES14.

[hobokengolf]

GB:

Thats not 100% accurate. The ES14 actually uses the 'smash factor' to guess at the launch angle - because on a solidly struck ball a higher launch angle would tend to have a lower smash factor (due to a higher lofted club's more glancing ball strike).

I think the ES14 is the most basic ball measuring device (ball speed only) paired with the most basic club measuring device (clubhead speed only).

A device that measures clubhead speed, ball speed and launch angle can actually even give total spin (calculated) based on the fact that on a solidly struck shot ball clubhead speed is transferred into ball speed + spin. Its still calculated (not measured) - but its a level above what the ES14 presently does (but still not what the GC2 does). I think this is sort of what Zelocity was attempting - but its not the same as measuring the spin (less accurate) and there is no way to know the spin axis.

[goatbarn]

Thanks Hoboken, I didn't know it makes a guess at the launch angle based on the smash factor.

I could see that providing slightly more accurate carry distances for most solidly struck shots. Mis hits will throw that off though. But better than not having that extra algorithm I suppose.

In the end, it's still known that spin/axis measurement is the "holy grail", but apparently the most diffucult/expensive to obtain.

[golfun]

I hope someone can provide like 10-20 shot comparison with a GC2 or About Golf or similar when they receive it. Really test it out. And provide the shot by shot results.

[golfun]

Would a shot higher on the club face produce a slower ball speed, and lower on the club face produce a faster speed?

[Par2Pro]

Hey All,

Just recently got an update on my pre-order for the ES14 that due to the recent severe weather in the Atlanta area (which has greatly impacted their production schedule) they are now planning to start the shipping process the first week in March. They said that they have a lot of pre-orders so my order may take a little bit longer depending on where I am in the line.

I will be out on fundraisers and installs for most of March, so probably won't be able to do much testing in March - since the ES14 is so portable, I may take it to the fundraisers to see how it reacts with various levels of golfers (so long as it doesn't get in the way and doesn't interfere with the GC2 readings)

Happy Golfing,
Cory

[Frans@france]

Thats not 100% accurate. The ES14 actually uses the 'smash factor' to guess at the launch angle - because on a solidly struck ball a higher launch angle would tend to have a lower smash factor (due to a higher lofted club's more glancing ball strike).

No, not really. And you should know when working as a clubfitter. Try to compare a driver with a AoA +5 and dynamic loft of 16 with a smash of 1.48. That will give you a Launch around 14.35

Now a iron 7 with AoA -5 and dynamic 20, smash 1.38,

According to you this iron will fly higher but it's not. It's launch is 13.75degree.

So as you can see AoA is key here in understanding (calculating launch angle) and AoA is one of the most difficult values to measure after spin axis.

A device that measures clubhead speed, ball speed and launch angle can actually even give total spin (calculated) based on the fact that on a solidly struck shot ball clubhead speed is transferred into ball speed + spin.

No, not really. Again you need AoA and then the spin value data is still pure guess work and will not compensate for any gear effect. The error for that calculated spin value even without gear effect will still be around 25%

I think this is sort of what Zelocity was attempting.

No, not really

[Frans@france]

Would a shot higher on the club face produce a slower ball speed, and lower on the club face produce a faster speed?

if those shots are the same distance from the sweetspot the lower on the face shot will produce a higher speed, more spin and lower launch angle then the high on the face.