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  1. #61
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    FYI, I was told by simtech that the system does measure spin/spin axis. However they did not reply when I asked them how (ie, dimples or marked balls).

  2. #62
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    It is definetely not Kinect technology. See Foregolf thread for technology of Simtech.

  3. #63
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans@france View Post
    euh.......did you calculate the error on the speed when measuring ballspeed at 1000 fps and the error when measuring it at 30fps? You are aware that the Kinect can NOT even see the ball because it's too small! And you can not run multiple Kinects! because besides the usb ports & cpu being overloaded the kinects interfere with each other. So you can only run 1 at a time.


    some data : a ball with an driver @ 90mph will with a smash of 1.48 will travel at a speed of 133.2mph. That is 50.6 m/s


    Using 30 fps the ball will travel 1.69 meters between frames. So if you are lucky and the camera is in sync with the impact you will get a max of 3(! three !) frames where the ball is in a frame. If you want more frames you need already more then 5 meters ball fight.
    I have read of many instances of 3-4 Kinect 1's running smoothly together, each on a separate USB2.0 bus. Kinect 2's interfere. Kinect 3 - who knows what it will do. I'm not suggesting Simtech use physical Kinects, but use a similar depth-sensing technology (time-of-flight, dot-field, structured-light, something else?) in their quest, maybe different frequency IR for each. 30fps is simply Kinect's scan rate, maybe because a wide FOV is required or maybe because it's sufficient for human movement. From my calcs I had at 1000fps (which are inline with yours at 30fps) it should have been obvious I knew 30fps by itself is inappropriate for speed measurement.

    Maybe they'll need other imaging techniques, maybe some fast hardware board giving a signal that can be easily handled by USB2. As I said, it's easy to postulate without actually doing it, but I don't believe something accurate and reasonably priced is too far away. It doesn't look like it'll be Simtech if the Full Swing Golf connection is still there though.

  4. #64
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    So what technology does the Fullswing/Simtech (assuming it's the same) use? 2 High speed cameras in stereoscopic vision?

    Assuming they're not lying (big assumption) about measuring spin/spin axis....how can you do it with infrared LED light, 2 cameras and a regular spot light? It would have to "see" the dimples (like GC2) wouldn't it?

  5. #65
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by steb View Post
    I have read of many instances of 3-4 Kinect 1's running smoothly together, each on a separate USB2.0 bus.
    I'm sure you have not read that, because it is impossible. In fact many tried to find special ways to make it work. The only way it works is when the Kinects do not overlap their FOV. The reason for not working is that the Kinect needs the speckle pattern that it project with the laser to be exactly as expected. When two kinects share the same 3d space then the speckle pattern from both kinects are mixed and they are unable to find their own pattern in the image.


    More expensive Kinect like camera's use different infra-red spectrums per camera and adjusted band-pass filter so that the camera's only see their own speckle pattern.

  6. #66
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by goatbarn View Post
    Assuming they're not lying (big assumption) about measuring spin/spin axis....how can you do it with infrared LED light, 2 cameras and a regular spot light? It would have to "see" the dimples (like GC2) wouldn't it?

    maybe use a ball with a infra-red reflector marking...

  7. #67
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    What about infrared reflective stickers? Much like the radar metallic stickers, although the use of cameras should allow tracking the stickers to find their axis of rotation.....eh?

    If they tell me they're not using marked ball I'm going to say bull on the spin/spin axis measurement.

  8. #68
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    Would think this is what Simtech is using or maybe developed from
    http://www.fullswinggolf.com/product...rformance-cam/

    Still very vague description but it clearly state one high speed cam for spin and club head.
    Guess that will mean the ball have to placed pretty accurate on the same spot for a zoomed in cam to catch the dimples.
    Didn't find any reviews/ info from users?

  9. #69
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    Update from Sim tech employee paraphrased of course:

    The dual camera system is not comparable to the ION spin cam.

    Dual camera system currently measures all ball data and will later record swing (zoomed out?) as well.

    They will be at the PGA show but not at a booth. Appointment to meet up and talk can be scheduled through email.

    Proof of the accuracy of the measurements will be determined once they release the product, I guess.

    I asked about how the measurement of spin/axis is determined (markings/dimples) and he said that there are no markings required but could not comment on whether their camera system recognizes dimples. Algorithms/high speed cameras/infrared lights are used to measure ball data. Your guess is as good as mine for the time being.

  10. #70
    Lob Wedge gwear55068 is on a distinguished road
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    Maybe Corey will have some time to meet up with them and give us his impressions?

  11. #71
    Lob Wedge 12tree is on a distinguished road
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    Any updates on this product? The ceiling mount would be good for me and would allow both left and right handed players, which is something I need. I know the floor models do this, but I would prefer not to build a platform since my room is upstairs and that would mean a step up in the room. I emailed Simtech on Monday about potential time frame, but no word yet. Hope my overactive spam filter has not caught it. Bubba22 and Zmax, can you hint whether the big changes coming will handle lefty/righty issues without a problem? I promise that is all I want to know. Thanks everyone.

  12. #72
    Shotmaker bubs3141 is on a distinguished road
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    my understanding is that it will not allow left and right at the same time. It will most likely be a floor model similar to the GC2.

  13. #73
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    Yes, from what they've said, the mystery LM will be similar to GC2, and won't handle left/right easily.

  14. #74
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    That's correct. But eventually, somebody will make an AboutGolf like device. Maybe Martin will get the Surround working or maybe somebody else. I highly doubt SimTech can measure spin though.

  15. #75
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    There very well may be more than one new product out there. And from what I know, Simtech does not measure spin.

  16. #76
    6 Iron tman is on a distinguished road
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    Angry

    Well I am still waiting hoping something comes out to buy. I have one heck of a theater room right now just waiting to become a golf room. I bought a HQ screen material from Cory and am very pleased with it. Sewed it up myself and built some side foam panels.Love it. Great for 16x9 movies in HD or Blue ray for sure. Now just the darn sim system.

  17. #77
    Lob Wedge 12tree is on a distinguished road
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    Just heard from the guys at Simtech. Here is what they said: "The time table for our release is going to be moving up into march. I will forward you information on pricing as it becomes available." I asked if they could provide details on what is measured versus estimated, but no response yet. That's all I know at this point in time.

  18. #78
    ace625
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12tree View Post
    Just heard from the guys at Simtech. Here is what they said: "The time table for our release is going to be moving up into march. I will forward you information on pricing as it becomes available." I asked if they could provide details on what is measured versus estimated, but no response yet. That's all I know at this point in time.
    This is for the PerfectGolf software?

  19. #79
    Ace goatbarn is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ace625 View Post
    This is for the PerfectGolf software?
    I believe he's referring to Simtech, a partner company of perfect parallels, who have a simulator coming out with pp as their software.

  20. #80
    Lob Wedge Tomukas1 is on a distinguished road
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    any news?

  21. #81
    Shotmaker bubs3141 is on a distinguished road
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    website should be updated this week with news.

  22. #82
    Lob Wedge Tomukas1 is on a distinguished road
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    i found their website already updated, it will use two high speed cameras, maybe someone knows more info? Price tags or smth?

  23. #83
    Lob Wedge Tomukas1 is on a distinguished road
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    I asked for the price they told me "basic package which would include the tracking system as well as the SIM software the price is $5,049.99", unfortenutely i am not so good in tech spec, maybe someone knows if this sim would be accurate and so on?

  24. #84
    Par Kball is on a distinguished road
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    There is really very little information on their web-site - which is too bad. It would be nice to see some more detailed information relative to system features, how it works, etc.

  25. #85
    Lob Wedge Tomukas1 is on a distinguished road
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    I emailed to get the price, someone should do the same to get info about system features and so on. I could do it, but i am not as good in these technical things as others here. It would be very interesting to get more information, maybe someone could write them?

  26. #86
    Par Kball is on a distinguished road
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    I made a request via E-mail - we will see if we get a response.

  27. #87
    Par Kball is on a distinguished road
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    Still no response.

  28. #88
    Putter Simtech is on a distinguished road
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    Kball,

    We are unable to find your email in our system. Can you please let us know where you sent it to. Thanks

  29. #89
    7 Wood Msuzippy is on a distinguished road
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    I sent this email to Nick but haven't heard anything back:

    Thanks Nick. Do you have any videos, whitepapers, etc that can explain the technology of what is measured and with what degree of accuracy? I have no idea how it works right now. I might be interested in buying one if you have a reasonable return policy.

  30. #90
    Par Kball is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simtech View Post
    Kball,

    We are unable to find your email in our system. Can you please let us know where you sent it to. Thanks
    Thanks for responding - I sent the E-mail through the contact feature on your web-site. If you would like please PM me and I will provide an E-mail where you can send information.

    Thanks

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