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  1. #31
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The big focus is the software and linking with as many platforms/units as possible.

  2. #32
    7 Wood Msuzippy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    The big focus is the software and linking with as many platforms/units as possible.
    Maybe it is for you. There are some of us still looking for other hardware options.

  3. #33
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    I am saying that the big focus for Perfect Parallel is to sell as much of their software as possible including the pc market. Not saying my big focus is the software. In my discussions with them they are really focused on the software introduction now.

  4. #34
    7 Wood Msuzippy is on a distinguished road
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    Great, thanks.

  5. #35
    Known entity psace is on a distinguished road
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    I suppose we are all hoping that something in a descent price range will knock our socks off. We will have to wait and see what this option brings to the table when it is available.

  6. #36
    alpobas
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    Please do not forget their Terrain Importer and Course Forge software. Those allow users to "easily" create courses to use with Perfect Golf. At least, I am excited...



    http://www.perfectparallel.com/produ...in-importer-r5

    http://www.perfectparallel.com/produ...ourse-forge-r1

  7. #37
    alpobas
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    Oh yeah, "affordable" doesn't sound like $6000-10000, for me it sounds like $1000-2000 maximum.

  8. #38
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    You guys do realize that this is very similair to the ion/Sportscoach/Surgril sim technology. It will not be 1000. The big question is how much will Perfect Parallel be? Given that it will be mass produced for pc and other sim platforms, I am hoping it will be low cost for the software.
    This SimTech thing just looks depth sensing to me like a Kinect (measuring time-of-flight from led pulsing to seeing the pulse), rather than machine vision cameras processing photographic images like all the others.
    Last edited by steb; 12-31-2013 at 07:10 AM.

  9. #39
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Simtech is linked and partnered with Perfect Parrallel. They are the owners of Foresgolf Sirgul. Same tech as Ion camera, SportsCoach but with ceiling mounted and IR and no floor launch cam. I question how accurate it will measure the launch angle.
    How I believe it to be is a few years ago Full Swing Golf bought out Fore Golf, who was owned by Erik Lugris (The Sirgul sim is Lugris backwards I note), and at about the same time they started working with SportsCoach. Erik became CTO at FSG.

    Later Erik founded PP. I was hoping Erik had left FSG to compete against them but I see his Linked In profile says he currently works at both places so FSG probably own everything.

    SimTech - well Erik posted the pic of the unit above saying, "From our friends at SimTech", but both SimTech and PP appear to be in Buffalo, NY, and I note the contact for SimTech has the same name as Erik's wife.

  10. #40
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    About launch angle, if the SimTech technology is indeed depth sensing with the same accuracy as the Kinect 2, that would be about ±0.5 degrees if the ball was tracked over a meter, or about the same as the GC2 (±0.2 deg), if tracked over 3m.

    Also I note Swinguru is being flogged by FullSwingGolf also, which uses Kinect style sensors. I had a play with it the other day, but drove me insane with crashing.

  11. #41
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    Anybody emailed the contact for more info?
    I did not assuming they would not say much anyway before the PGA show.

  12. #42
    7 Wood Msuzippy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
    Anybody emailed the contact for more info?
    I did not assuming they would not say much anyway before the PGA show.
    I did. No response. Not a great start.

  13. #43
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    I for one would like to get ride of anything on the floor even if that meant losing club tracking.
    Not sure why there should be more concern about LA than GC2 got with horizontal angle.
    But I guess we will have to wait and see.

  14. #44
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    I for one would like to get ride of anything on the floor even if that meant losing club tracking.
    Not sure why there should be more concern about LA than GC2 got with horizontal angle.
    But I guess we will have to wait and see.

  15. #45
    Shotmaker bubs3141 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by steb View Post
    About launch angle, if the SimTech technology is indeed depth sensing with the same accuracy as the Kinect 2, that would be about ±0.5 degrees if the ball was tracked over a meter, or about the same as the GC2 (±0.2 deg), if tracked over 3m.

    Also I note Swinguru is being flogged by FullSwingGolf also, which uses Kinect style sensors. I had a play with it the other day, but drove me insane with crashing.
    So you would not recommend Swingguru then?

  16. #46
    Known entity psace is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
    I for one would like to get ride of anything on the floor even if that meant losing club tracking.
    Not sure why there should be more concern about LA than GC2 got with horizontal angle.
    But I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Totally agree here.

  17. #47
    3 Wood northgolf is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
    I for one would like to get ride of anything on the floor even if that meant losing club tracking.
    Not sure why there should be more concern about LA than GC2 got with horizontal angle.
    But I guess we will have to wait and see.


    Distance from the ball - the GC2 is close so it can get good pictures of the ball. The simtech has the advantage of well separated camera's for parallax. At the distance the simtech is, I have a hard time believing it can pick up spin.

  18. #48
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
    Anybody emailed the contact for more info?
    I did not assuming they would not say much anyway before the PGA show.
    I also emailed 5 days ago with no response. I don't see PP or Simtech in the exhibitor list either.

  19. #49
    Par Kball is on a distinguished road
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    I E-mailed as well and received no response.

  20. #50
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by northgolf View Post
    Distance from the ball - the GC2 is close so it can get good pictures of the ball. The simtech has the advantage of well separated camera's for parallax. At the distance the simtech is, I have a hard time believing it can pick up spin.
    Me too if it's using dimple detection or even ball markings from photographic snapshots, but what if it's using some other process, as Trackman showed is possible at distance with phase shifting IIRC.

  21. #51
    Known entity psace is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kball View Post
    I E-mailed as well and received no response.
    A lot of companies don't like to leak out too many details until a project is ready for distribution. I can't say I blame them but it does make us users a little impatient.

    I am looking forward to viewing their new web site coming shortly.

  22. #52
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    I've been watching golf sims for 10 years for one worth taking the driver head cover off for, I'm in no rush.

    PP have said they're releasing the simulator version first which is a good sign, but I've also read they're also currently working on the Mac version (which is a bad sign). Beta testing hasn't started yet which requires at least 6 months if done properly.
    Last edited by steb; 12-31-2013 at 07:35 PM.

  23. #53
    Caddy golfun is on a distinguished road
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    Mac Version of Simtech Simulator too?

    If the unit is that compact and versatile and can cost around $1000 (not $10,000), it will really shake things up....

  24. #54
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Mac desktop version, although this SimBoost thing Simtech are releasing might be all that's needed to turn either desktop version, or even the mobile versions into the simulator version?

    Looking at the lounge room picture, it's not compact, rather mount once, calibrate and forget. I sort of like that.

  25. #55
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Don't get excited by $1000, especially if FSG is still involved. That's just my feeling based on how much cheaper motion detection has become and if PP really did want to start turning all those garage hitters into sim users.

    Motion capture used to cost an absolute fortune, now lone animators can get great results from Kinects/PS3Eye cameras costing next to nothing. Same with Swinguru using Kinects. These don't have the high speed requirements a ball demands, especially spin, but all this stuff is so much cheaper now. I still shudder when I remember paying AUS $13000 for a projector about 8 years ago, and it's not even HD.

    If it was $4000, I think I'd go for the GC2 if it interfaced with PG, as being able to take the GC2 to the range is easily worth the extra.
    Last edited by steb; 01-01-2014 at 11:32 PM.

  26. #56
    Caddy golfun is on a distinguished road
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    SIMTECH BOOST

    -Retrofit any simulator
    Upgrade any Simulator with simple bolt on module from Simtech.


    How can you retrofit a simulator? Do they simply mean using the prior studio space, not like attaching it onto a P3proswing unit? lol

  27. #57
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    I'm thinking 'upgrade' means upgrading your simulator that is using Redchain/E6/Simway/... to the Perfect Golf software. Not upgrading hardware capability.

    So you buy the appropriate bolt-on module that simply unencrypts the data from your simulator hardware and re-encrypts it to that demanded by the Perfect Golf software. Surely it's just a matter of time before the sim companies protect their device's output, and a hardware module would be the more secure way of exposing their protocols and be reimbursed for their loss of software sales elsewhere.

    All guessing, but what else is there to talk about?

  28. #58
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    Steb you sound like you know a lot about motion cams and kinects?
    Do you think HS cams are low enough in price to be used for high speed ball capture? If we talk $1,000-$2,000 devices!

    Another method would be to capture the ball flight curve but have no idea for how long you have to follow the ball flight to get a reliable result?

  29. #59
    Pitching Wedge steb is on a distinguished road
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    Cheap HS cams still haven't got enough resolution at high frame rates, or large enough apertures for the high shutter speeds needed for sharpness. So it's easy to cheaply capture a ball at 1000fps where you'd see a ball from a drive captured every 2-3 inches, but it wouldn't be sharp enough to accurately measure velocity from and there'd no chance with spin. Good enough for launch angle and azimuth though as a blurry streak is sufficient.

    But I have felt depth cameras such as used in the Kinect 2 hold the key to affordability due to the very good precision they're now getting in depth measurement.

    They only scan at 30 fps, but that's at a huge 90 degree field of view. Have a bank of them and narrow their field of view to increase frame rate and there might be a cheap yet accurate solution if mass sales could be predicted. Seeing this Simtech with what look like four IR projectors grabbed my interest for this reason.

    It's however very easy to postulate, actually doing it is where the roadblocks appear.
    Last edited by steb; 01-02-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  30. #60
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by steb View Post
    They only scan at 30 fps, but that's at a huge 90 degree field of view. Have a bank of them and narrow their field of view to increase frame rate and there might be a cheap yet accurate solution if mass sales could be predicted. Seeing this Simtech with what look like four IR projectors grabbed my interest for this reason.

    It's however very easy to postulate, actually doing it is where the roadblocks appear.

    euh.......did you calculate the error on the speed when measuring ballspeed at 1000 fps and the error when measuring it at 30fps? You are aware that the Kinect can NOT even see the ball because it's too small! And you can not run multiple Kinects! because besides the usb ports & cpu being overloaded the kinects interfere with each other. So you can only run 1 at a time.


    some data : a ball with an driver @ 90mph will with a smash of 1.48 will travel at a speed of 133.2mph. That is 50.6 m/s


    Using 30 fps the ball will travel 1.69 meters between frames. So if you are lucky and the camera is in sync with the impact you will get a max of 3(! three !) frames where the ball is in a frame. If you want more frames you need already more then 5 meters ball fight.

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