2nd Pop Quiz

[adanac]

Saw this on another site - during a four ball event , player A borrowed a club from his partner, player B, and made a hole in one with the borrowed club. Player A had 13 clubs in his bag, player B had 12. Is player A penalized? Did player A score a hole in one? (It was not indicated whether this was stroke play or match play, so answer both questions for each form of play.)

[Kilroy]

Your question is not applicable to stroke play for a couple of reasons.

1- It'a a four ball. That's Team Match Play.
2- There are no partners in stroke play

It most likely wasn't directly stated in order to catch out those unaware. If you don't know what a four ball is you'd waste effort trying to apply it to stroke play. It's part of the question. It's common to phrase golf rules questions this way.

[BC MIST]

Your question is not applicable to stroke play for a couple of reasons.

1- It'a a four ball. That's Team Match Play.
2- There are no partners in stroke play

It most likely wasn't directly stated in order to catch out those unaware. If you don't know what a four ball is you'd waste effort trying to apply it to stroke play. It's part of the question. It's common to phrase golf rules questions this way.

Actually, Rule 30 deals with 4 Ball match play while Rule 31 deals with 4 Ball stroke play, and so each side in either format consists of two players who are partners. Until recently, the OVGA had a 4-Ball, stroke play event, but that has changed to a combination of 4 ball and scramble format

[Kilroy]

Well, I learned something new. Never heard of that before. Thanks BC

[AAA]

Is player A penalized?

There is a penalty.

Did player A score a hole in one?

It depends on how you define a hole in one. The Rules of Golf don't recognise such an animal.

[BC MIST]

....player A borrowed a club from his partner, player B, and made a hole in one with the borrowed club. Player A had 13 clubs in his bag, player B had 12. Is player A penalized? [/I]

Questions to consider:

(1) If A has 13 clubs and B has 12 clubs, does it seem fair that A gets to choose from a total of 25 clubs?

(2) IF A is penalized for the use of his partner's club(s), is Partner B also penalized?

(3) If A holes his tee shot in stroke play, but is penalized for the use of his partner's club, does his hole in one still count as such?

(4) If it is discovered after the end of a hole in match play, that A used a borrowed club, what is the penalty and when is it applied?

[adanac]

Questions to consider:

(1) If A has 13 clubs and B has 12 clubs, does it seem fair that A gets to choose from a total of 25 clubs?

(2) IF A is penalized for the use of his partner's club(s), is Partner B also penalized?

(3) If A holes his tee shot in stroke play, but is penalized for the use of his partner's club, does his hole in one still count as such?

(4) If it is discovered after the end of a hole in match play, that A used a borrowed club, what is the penalty and when is it applied?

Agree that those are some things to consider. After consideration, what are your answers for this quiz?

[BC MIST]

Agree that those are some things to consider. After consideration, what are your answers for this quiz?

I am looking for some answers from you, first.

[adanac]

I am looking for some answers from you, first.

I have the benefit of seeing the responses on the other site. This is meant as a quiz after all.

[Kilroy]

BC is a Golf Canada Rules Official Level 4. We are hoping non officials will take a stab at it.

[adanac]

BC is a Golf Canada Rules Official Level 4. We are hoping non officials will take a stab at it.

OK, I'll wait also.

[AAA]

BC is a Golf Canada Rules Official Level 4. We are hoping non officials will take a stab at it.

Not even a level 4 official can answer the hole in one question.

[Chambokl]

Questions to consider:

(1) If A has 13 clubs and B has 12 clubs, does it seem fair that A gets to choose from a total of 25 clubs?

Just going to answer this part. I think a partner can only borrow a club he also has. For example if I have a 4 iron in my bag I could borrow my partner's 4 iron....

Wonder if the partners have driver with different set-up.... For example one is a fade and one is a draw... would they be allowed to borrow? That would no really be fair!!

[nokids]

PARTNERS MAY SHARE CLUBS
4-4b/1
Borrowing Partner's Putter

Q.Neither A nor B, who were partners in a four-ball match, had 14 clubs, but between them they had more than 14 clubs. Several times during the round A borrowed B's putter. Is this permissible?

A.No. A and B should have had holes deducted. The penalty would be applied to the state of the match at the conclusion of the hole at which it became known that a breach had occurred.

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So no ace.

[AAA]

Just going to answer this part. I think a partner can only borrow a club he also has. For example if I have a 4 iron in my bag I could borrow my partner's 4 iron....

Wonder if the partners have driver with different set-up.... For example one is a fade and one is a draw... would they be allowed to borrow? That would no really be fair!!

See Rule 4-4b
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...f/Rule-04/#4-4

[AAA]

PARTNERS MAY SHARE CLUBS
4-4b/1
Borrowing Partner's Putter

Q.Neither A nor B, who were partners in a four-ball match, had 14 clubs, but between them they had more than 14 clubs. Several times during the round A borrowed B's putter. Is this permissible?

A.No. A and B should have had holes deducted. The penalty would be applied to the state of the match at the conclusion of the hole at which it became known that a breach had occurred.

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So no ace.

If C (one of his opponents) had aced with his own club, who won the hole?
If neither C nor D had aced, who won the hole?

[Chambokl]

See Rule 4-4b
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...f/Rule-04/#4-4

Thanks...

[adanac]

Have we waited long enough for "non-officials to answer"?

[Kilroy]

I would think so

[adanac]

I would think so

OK. I'll give the "officials" a few more days to form and post their answers.

[AAA]

An 'official' will have difficulty as the RoG do not cover aces.

[adanac]

An 'official' will have difficulty as the RoG do not cover aces.

Ah, but Rule 1-1, says "The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules".

That clearly suggests that a player can complete a hole in one stroke.

But the question at hand is not about the definition of a hole in one.

[AAA]

But the question at hand is not about the definition of a hole in one.

Really?

Is player A penalized? Did player A score a hole in one?

[adanac]

Really?

For you, I'll rephrase the question - what is player A's score for the hole?

[AAA]

For you, I'll rephrase the question - what is player A's score for the hole?

Was this matchplay or strokeplay?

[adanac]

Was this matchplay or strokeplay?

Yes.
See the original post.

[adanac]

No takers?

[adanac]

For the record, here's the (modified) original question, and my answer.

Saw this on another site - during a four ball event , player A borrowed a club from his partner, player B, and made a hole in one with the borrowed club. Player A had 13 clubs in his bag, player B had 12. Is player A penalized? What was player A's score for the hole? (It was not indicated whether this was stroke play or match play, so answer both questions for each form of play.)


In both stroke play and match play the partners are in breach of Rule 4-4b since the total number of clubs carried by them exceeds 14.

In match play, after completion of the hole, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole from partners A and B. If they were 1 down after completion of that hole, they would be 2 down. If they were two up after completion of that hole, they would be one up. Because the penalty is an adjustment to the state of the match on completion of the hole, player A has a score of one for the hole (and quite likely won the hole).

In stroke play, partners A and B have incurred a penalty of two strokes, and I'd suggest that their best score is A's three.