Best no-ball simulator

[JohnnyUtah]

I'm looking for the an accurate swing analyzer/simulator that can be used without a ball. I like to play in the evenings, and using real or practice balls would unfortunately create too much noise. I'm looking to improve my game, so club data is priority #1 and a good sim would just be bonus.

I would love to get the protee, but from what I've read, it needs a ball. Can someone verify that it cannot be used without one?

The p3proswing is a consideration. It has all the club data I want except for shaft lean, which prevents shots like stingers and lobbs. Im also worried about light reflectivity issues.

The dancing dog would be too basic.

Swingbyte/3bays/swing smart/etc, are clever, but cannot measure off-center hits.

Is there anything else? Maybe something that can read dynamic loft instead of relying on static loft of chosen clubs? Something in the near future?

[-Andrew-]

I don't know the answer to your question, but hey... I used to live in the Ala Moana...

I'm looking for the an accurate swing analyzer/simulator that can be used without a ball. I like to play in the evenings, and using real or practice balls would unfortunately create too much noise. I'm looking to improve my game, so club data is priority #1 and a good sim would just be bonus.

I would love to get the protee, but from what I've read, it needs a ball. Can someone verify that it cannot be used without one?

The p3proswing is a consideration. It has all the club data I want except for shaft lean, which prevents shots like stingers and lobbs. Im also worried about light reflectivity issues.

The dancing dog would be too basic.

Swingbyte/3bays/swing smart/etc, are clever, but cannot measure off-center hits.

Is there anything else? Maybe something that can read dynamic loft instead of relying on static loft of chosen clubs? Something in the near future?

[JohnnyUtah]

Haha good to hear from a former orange county neighbor.

Ps. Weather's better back here.

[-Andrew-]

And way better Mexican food, too. Wish I would have played when I lived there!

[JohnnyUtah]

Oh yeah, might grab a California carne asada burrito for lunch.

You make up your mind on the p3 and dd yet?

[-Andrew-]

Oh thanks a LOT... I skipped lunch to go to the driving range today!

I haven't decided just yet. I know neither is perfect, but I'm leaning toward the P3 at the moment due to what I've read regarding accuracy and club height sensors, though I am wondering how it handles backspin (or "divots", really) so posted a question in the hardware forum.

Also, though I am sure P3 is working on the issues (esp. the ball getting "stuck" in the fringe) I wish they would communicate a little better.

[ZMax]

Protee needs a ball. What about AlmostGolf balls? They're soft and don't make much noise.

[pingB]

I don't think you'll find anything that works too well w/out a ball. Most of the top tier systems do something with ball data.

You also have to keep in mind that the brain does strange things on it's own. W/out a ball don't be so sure you would be swinging the same.

I use to use the optishot and I tried it w/out the ball a couple of times because I like you wanted to limit projectiles flying about. I immediately found that w/out a ball the swing was quite a bit different.

It doesn't use ball data so I assumed that it was my brains reaction to not actually hitting something.


It's the old "practice swing was perfect but real swing was terrible" syndrome I think. This is of course inconclusive non scientific research, but something I would consider.

[ZMax]

I agree with pingB. The golf swing is difficult enough as it is with a ball.

[JohnnyUtah]

I'll pick up a pack of almostgolf balls to test them out. I live in a townhome, so we'll see how loud they are. Thanks zmax.

I've been practicing in my garage with a mat, mirrors, a camera, swing speed radar, and swing analysis software, so I fully understand the mental problems of swinging without a ball. Doing this for the past year has helped me acclimate to the point where I can swing without a ball quite similarly to with a ball in terms of at least swing speed (tape on the mat works wells for something to aim at). I found that recording my swing puts nearly the same pressure on me as teeing off at a course. I end up going thru a pre-shot routine with waggle and all to try to swing as mechanically correct as possible...kinda embarrassing to see it on camera.

If the almostgolf balls are still too loud, I would consider 100% foam balls, but i would think the ball speed would be too far off for the protee, even if you accounted for it in the software. I wonder about the launch angle as well. Thoughts?

[JohnnyUtah]

I haven't decided just yet. I know neither is perfect, but I'm leaning toward the P3 at the moment due to what I've read regarding accuracy and club height sensors, though I am wondering how it handles backspin (or "divots", really).

In order to calculate backspin from club data only, you need to calculate spin loft (dynamic angle - aoa). P3 does not calculate dynamic loft nor adjust the launch angle due to aoa.

Regardless, I would also choose the p3 with the gen II grasstop over the dd from my research as well.

[ZMax]

LA with AlmostGolf balls is pretty close to real balls for most shots. GW, SW, and LW shots will be a bit lower. Maybe 2-3* lower. I use AlmostGolf balls for my wedges due to my low ceilings and they're good enough for me. I can get about 40-43 LA with a LW. Serious short game practice should be done at the course anyway.

Not sure about foam balls but I doubt they would work.

[-Andrew-]

Has anyone tried marshmallows?

[JohnnyUtah]

Is that a serious question?

Haha, if so I bet you would regret it when you hit it thin and mash it into your mat.

Zmax, can you tell tell when you hit an almostgolf ball flush vs off-center? I went to golfsmith yesterday and they didn't carry them.

[-Andrew-]

lol...

[ZMax]

Zmax, can you tell tell when you hit an almostgolf ball flush vs off-center? I went to golfsmith yesterday and they didn't carry them.

Not as easy as real balls but I can still tell if it's off-centered. Make sure you get white AlmostGolf balls. Yellow ones will leave small yellow spots on the impact screen. Try Dick Sports or Ebay.

[JohnnyUtah]

good to know. thanks

[mgb95]

Sorry I'm late on this. I'm a relative newcomer, so I defer to the opinions of the other, vastly more experienced commenters, but figured I'd give you my thoughts, fwtw. As background, I'm a decent ballstriker now (usually 7-9 girs per round in the real world), and wanted a simulator primarily to improve my ballstriking.

I've had great luck using the optishot without a ball. Here are a few disorganized thoughts on it:

• I've only had luck with the irons. Still trying to figure out how to improve the driver setup for more consistent readings.
• Take a look at the Dancin Dogg thread for setup. Great tips in there, particularly from Golfmaxxx. I was frustrated for months before I added the two desktop cfl lamps above the sensors per Golfmaxx's suggestion.
• I have found it more demanding to practice without a ball (although not so demanding as to be unhelpful). There are obviously difficulties taking that feeling to the golf course, but I like the idea of practicing in a more demanding fashion. I actually feel like I get more out of my optishot practice by not using a ball, but I suspect most would feel differently.
• To me, optishot actually seems to pick up my clubface and path more consistently without ball, as if perhaps the ball occasionally confused it. My head tells me that's unlikely, but that's what it seemed like.
• Practicing without a ball might be a decent option for someone with a low-rotation release, like the image on the left. That's what I try to do. It's likely to be an exercise in frustration for someone who prefers a more aggressive release, like the image on the right. Some folks call that the difference between "hitting" and "swinging". If you find that terminology helpful, I'm suggesting it will work better for a hitter than a swinger.
  
  
  

[JohnnyUtah]

Mgb95, thanks for your insight. Quite helpful indeed and I would encourage you to voice your opinion more often. I agree, practicing without a ball has its limitations, but can be useful. I've made a cognitive effort the past year to revise my entire swing, grip and all. I'm finally at a point where I'm almost satisfied with my mechanics and would like to focus more on ball striking and working the ball. I'll take a look at the optishot thread.

[vikramg]

Johnny , I do have the P3pro and the Optishot and like the optishot way better . I used to practice without a ball, as the golf balls and "almost golf" balls created bumps on my display screen cloth.
Hitting the turf without a ball gives no feel whatsoever, so what I would do is stick a rubber tee into the optishot and then strike the tee with the club to get some decent feedback . Finally got around to putting a small net to catch the "almost golf balls" so now my screen is safe and I am very happy with the setup .
You could go with the softer-foam balls as well ( and these are quiet silent) and there is a setting in Optishot to select this option ( Foam or No Ball ) . You would need to re-calibrate your club distances, as the shots would go longer due to zero resistance .
And Optishot is not basic by any standard , I am currently a 10 handicap and optishot has helped me tremendously in grooving a soft draw and lowering my scores .

[mgb95]

Thanks Johnny. Sounds like we're working on the same things. I think optishot is a great way to practice working the ball.

[Stonebattle]

JohnnyUtah:
I see the Optishot and P3proswing as great values. I have played on friends Optishots several times and they are quite good. Still, when it comes to accuracy and swing improvement, I see the P3proswing as much better. My two friends with Optishots both say the same thing.

The information is more accurate on the P3proswing and there is more of it. The swing videos are also very useful, although only 30 fps. so one misses a lot.

For a no ball analyzer, to me one would need at least a simulator and a stance mat and of course a computer. For Optishot this would cost around $700, not including the computer, and for a P3proswing it would be just under a $1000. For the upgrade to the P3proswing this seems like a reasonable adder. I think one may get more courses with the P3proswing as well, but I'm not as knowledgeable on the Optishot, so others will likely add to this discussion.

Taping the clubs has to be done very carefully to get the added accuracy and consistency for the P3proswing. I've ended up using a T square and calipers to get it right, but it does not need to be done that often so its not a big deal. My friends and I tried my taped clubs on their Optishots, and it seemed to us it was also more accurate and consistent when the clubs were taped.

Good luck with your search

[JohnnyUtah]

Those were my thoughts regarding the those two as well. Thanks stone.

The protee might be the answer for me.

I emailed protee a while back to see if their unit could be used without a ball. They just replied "Yes you can, but the ball flight will be simulated from the clubhead data, which will not be as accurate as playing with a ball."

Can anyone verify this? Zmax perhaps?

I know it'd be a jump in cost, but courses are included and I wouldn't mind having a sensor unit I could turn into a full out sim in the future with ball data to boot.

[bubba22]

That's exactly true about ProTee without the ball. Trust me, if at all possible, for game improvement, hit a ball of some sort.

[ZMax]

It does work but I'm wondering if the ball track will interpret the club as the ball path. With no sound of the ball, it should ignore the ball track completely. Need to check this out.

[ZMax]

Good news. Ball track can be turned off.

[JohnnyUtah]

Thanks for checking, that's great news. Hopefully the launch angle won't be predetermined for each club like the p3pro.

Yeah I agree bubba. I'm experimenting with practice balls and noise levels. Soft foam balls might be quiet enough, but I wouldn't trust the trajectory. I looked at almostgolf balls per zmax's advice, but they seem too hard and solid to be quiet enough. I don't have a net in my garage, so I can't fully test those balls out yet.

[ZMax]

Try them .they are quiet.

[bubba22]

Yes I agree the Almost balls are quiet.

[JohnnyUtah]

Good to know. I'll give 'em a shot.