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Thread: Ball in the bush
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07-14-2013 11:36 PM #1
Ball in the bush
I put my tee shot in the bush and then I hit a provisional on the fairway. I walk into the bush to look for the original ball and find it but it's unplayable. Can I get a drop say from point of entry and take a penalty stroke?
Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing, ... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
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07-15-2013 04:08 AM #2
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No. You may (under penalty of 1 stroke)
1) drop a ball within 2 clublengths of where the original ball lies not nearer the hole
2) go back as far as you like along a line from the hole, through the point where the ball lies
3) play again from where you made the last stroke.
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07-15-2013 08:03 AM #3
haha, no
or yes, but then you get an 'X' on that hole.
You only get out of something what you put into it
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07-15-2013 09:04 AM #4
Don't points 1 and 2 contradict themselves?
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07-15-2013 09:52 AM #5
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07-15-2013 04:00 PM #6
For option 3, would you be allowed to use the provisional as that ball (so lying 3 in the fairway) or do you have to go back and hit another now that you know your ball is not lost.
"I killed a guy with a trident." Brick Tamland
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07-15-2013 04:03 PM #7
No, you can't use the provisional. It was hit in case the original was lost. Since it was not lost, the provisional must be abandoned.
This is a rule that I would like to see changed. The arguement against it is that you now give the player an "advantage" by choosing a ball in play, albeit a ball that is lying 3, instead of making hit another one in play.Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!
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07-15-2013 04:15 PM #8
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jv
The only reason for a provisional is to save time. Once the time has been saved and the ball found the provisional has no further purpose in life. It is not intended to give you a guaranteed good position for an unplayable.
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07-15-2013 04:34 PM #9
Understood, but the same arguement could be used for the unplayable option, i.e. it saves time.
I understand the rationale for not allowing the provisional to be played in the situation described, I just don't agree with it.Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!
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07-15-2013 05:10 PM #10
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07-15-2013 05:13 PM #11
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07-15-2013 06:25 PM #12
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07-15-2013 06:43 PM #13
I was referring to the provisional saving time.
Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!
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07-15-2013 08:29 PM #14
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As I understand it, option "3" is available only if the ball is lost. Once the ball is found the provisional ball is out of play and teeing up another ball is no longer an option.
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07-15-2013 08:44 PM #15
No wonder they are looking into simplifying the rules of the game...
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07-15-2013 08:52 PM #16
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07-15-2013 10:41 PM #17
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You're in the bush. It is very likely that the drop options are going to leave you with a very risky, low-percentage shot to the green or you will only be chipping out to the fairway anyway. Or you could end up dropping behind a tree, or a rock, or in fescue -who knows?
If you already know that you can choose a perfect lie in the middle of the fairway with 100% certainty - at the mere cost of one extra stroke - that seems like a big advantage to me.
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07-16-2013 02:33 AM #18
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07-16-2013 07:25 AM #19
Yes you're right, but most of the times declaring a ball unplayable and using option 1) or 2) will result in the player being in a better position than lying 3 on the fairway. I don't have stats to back up this claim, but I play a lot of courses and there's always a way out of trouble unless your ball is in some really nasty jungle with no way to play it or drop it in line with the flag. I almost always want to find my ball because I think I can advance it past the point of where my provisional ball is lying.
I played an OVGA tourny this year and this guy hit his ball in the bush, then hit a provisional without declaring it a provisional. I found the guy's first ball in the bush and it was indeed unplayable. He wanted to hack it out. I told him he had to play the ball in the fairway since he didn't announce a provisional. He got ticked off. I totally understand why he was ticked off. Lying 3 on the fairway sucks.
So I'd agree with Jv about changing the rule.You only get out of something what you put into it
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07-16-2013 07:55 AM #20
If you ask me I would take the provisional any day. First it is no guarantee that it can be chipped out for sure after taking a drop. You may end up hitting 2 or more strokes just to get it out If you go for option 2 you might be robbed of distance(unless you're on a short par 3) If you opt for option 3 you may end up in the woods again
Hence Mickelson did not want anyone to find his ball:
Mickelson did not find his ball immediately, and he did not want to. He wanted to play his provisional ball, which was sitting in the middle of the fairway.
But to Mickelson's chagrin, a tournament marshal soon found his ball, also in an unplayable position. So instead of taking a penalty stroke and hitting his fourth shot from the fairway, Mickelson had to return to the tee box, just as Lickliter had, and hit his third shot from there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/12/sp...ple-bogey.htmlLive as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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07-16-2013 09:28 AM #21
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07-16-2013 10:11 AM #22
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07-16-2013 01:29 PM #23
Don't look for it in places you wouldn't want to find it. I only look in playable areas. I don't care about the ball. I get 'used mint' balls by the gross so they are cheep enough to let them go.
Life dinnae come wit gimmies so yuv got nae chance o' gitt'n any from me.
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07-16-2013 01:39 PM #24
Allowing a provisional ball to be used as a 4th option for an unplayable ball is a cop-out, and diminishes the challenge of the game.
The main premise of golf is to play the ball as it lies. A player who's ball may be found in an "unplayable" position has only himself to blame for putting it there. Rule 28 allows 3 different options for a ball that has been found and declared unplayable, and 1 for a ball which has not been found, but declared unplayable (stroke & distance).
A provisional ball is played for a ball may be lost, not for a ball that may be found. The language is precise for a reason. Contrary to popular belief, a provisional ball is not a "free swing". It's a contingency for a ball that may be lost outside of a water hazard, or out of bounds.
Regardless of whether a provisional ball saves time, or not, if the original ball is found within the "field of play" it must be dealt with. A player cannot declare a ball to be lost. Only his actions in relation to the original ball can render it lost. Such as, searching for and not finding it within 5 minutes, playing the provisional from a point where the original is likely to be or a point closer to the hole, playing from the previous spot, etc.When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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07-16-2013 04:41 PM #25
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When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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07-16-2013 08:42 PM #26
How about a rule change so that if a player hits his first shot in trouble, he can then hit a provisional in case #1 is lost, and he also hits a 3rd ball from the tee in case his first or 2nd ball is unplayable and he wants to proceed under option 3 of the unplayable rule. No need to go back to the tee. Instead of announcing "provisional", players would announce "in case my ball is unplayable"
You only get out of something what you put into it
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07-17-2013 07:18 AM #27
Don't look for it and play the provisional's second shot fast so your fellow competitor doesn't have time to find your first errant shot. (Assuming you are away) This happened to me at our club championship a few years ago. I didn't even attempt to look for my first as it was deep left with a further left draw but must have hit a tree to an unplayable lie which my f/c found just as I was about to hit my provisional. I ended up with an 11 on the hole to put me out of the competition - thank God it poured rain shortly after which suspended the round -and allowed me to withdraw with my soaked bag, body, and mind. (mmmmmm beer)
"Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men...
the other 999 follow women." - Groucho Marx
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07-17-2013 02:18 PM #28
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07-17-2013 11:41 PM #29
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How does that change anything? You still know what's behind Door #3 before you make your choice.
The reason why a provisional is even possible is that there are NO options available with a ball that is lost or OB. You have no choice but to replay from the previous spot (i.e., stroke + distance). So why not save time and hit it while you're standing on the tee box.
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07-18-2013 08:07 AM #30
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