Attending the Flagstick

[Gary Hill]

What is the status of a flagstick when it is removed and placed off of the green in the fringe or rough?

It is an unattended flagstick.

What happens if a ball is putted off the green and strikes the flagstick then?

The player incurs a penalty of two strokes and the ball must be played as it lies - see Rule 17-3.

[LobWedge]

I stand corrected on the grammar.

The offending text has been removed.

What offending text Gary? No insult or offence was either implied or intended, only my attempt to explain what I thought was the correct interpretaion of the rules in question. If you, or anyone else, took offence from my post then I am truly sorry. My intention was to engage in a healthy debate over a questioning of the rules.

Respectfully, Rich.

[Gary Hill]

No insult or offence was either implied or intended

I didnt mean you.

I meant that MY stupid post OFFENDED ME.

[LobWedge]

I didnt mean you.

I meant that MY stupid post OFFENDED ME.

Ahhh, I see. Oh well, as the great Forrest Gump once said, "Stuff happens."

Thanks again for continuing to provide the answers to the questions. I admire and share your passion for the game.

[HiG4s]

I keep reading through the rules and cannot find where it says there is a penalty for hitting an unattended flag stick not in the hole.

17-3 says . . . while being attended, removed, or held up . . .
. . . when in the hole, unattended . . .

And per the rules of reading the simple rules of golf, not reading into the rules something that is not there, I don't get it.

[Gary Hill]

I keep reading through the rules and cannot find where it says there is a penalty for hitting an unattended flag stick not in the hole.

17-3. Ball Striking Flagstick or Attendant
The player’s ball must not strike:
a. The flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up;

I am steering clear of the grammar involved (I already got burned on that one), but the Rule means "removed". It does not mean "being removed".

[HiG4s]

17-3. Ball Striking Flagstick or Attendant
The player’s ball must not strike:
a. The flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up;

I am steering clear of the grammar involved (I already got burned on that one), but the Rule means "removed". It does not mean "being removed".

After checking with my wife, the English teacher, the way that sentence is written, the verb "is being" could and should be applied to all three actions. And if the word "being" was totally left out it would, without question, mean just what you said it means. The fact it is in there at all, when unnecessary, makes the sentence ambigious and is one of the reasons why I questioned it.

[LobWedge]

Uh oh...

Gary, I swear to god that I didn't put him up to it.

[Gary Hill]

Uh oh...

Gary, I swear to god that I didn't put him up to it.

sure sure

[HiG4s]

Not to beat a dead horse..
but per the rules of grammer
in Strunk and Whites, Elements of Style

III, 13. Omit all unnecessary words.

an article or a preposition applying to all the members of a series must either be used only before the first term or else be repeated before each term.


So the "is being" is applied to all terms.

[NoBack]

The horse has been burried ,no sence in beating it anymore.

[Colby]

The horse has been burried not sence in beating it anymore.

You speck anglish reel guud!

[LobWedge]

You speck anglish reel guud!

LMFAO!! (you dork)

[LobWedge]

Gary's gonna hit you with that decision book...

I know but I thought it was necessary to preserve everyones sanity. You excluded, of course.

[Gary Hill]

Not to beat a dead horse..
but per the rules of grammer
in Strunk and Whites, Elements of Style

III, 13. Omit all unnecessary words.

an article or a preposition applying to all the members of a series must either be used only before the first term or else be repeated before each term.


So the "is being" is applied to all terms.

Unfortunately, "is being" is not a preposition.

"being attended" is using the past progessive form of the verb "to be" indicating an action that is in past but not finished.

It does not apply to "removed" or "held up" whose actions are finished.

[Colby]

I know but I thought it was necessary to preserve everyones sanity. You excluded, of course.

You're just jealous!

[Gary Hill]

I know but I thought it was necessary to preserve everyones sanity. You excluded, of course.

You have to HAVE sanity before you can preserve it.

[Big_duck]

Unfortunately, "is being" is not a preposition.

"being attended" is using the past progessive form of the verb "to be" indicating an action that is in past but not finished.

It does not apply to "removed" or "held up" whose actions are finished.

Zinnng

[NoBack]

Unfortunately, "is being" is not a preposition.

"being attended" is using the past progessive form of the verb "to be" indicating an action that is in past but not finished.

It does not apply to "removed" or "held up" whose actions are finished.

Gee I'm glad I'm sitting in the back of the class on this one. Nothing better than catching a few zzz's. You guys are now officially boring me to death. English course on a golf forum.

[LobWedge]

Gee I'm glad I'm sitting in the back of the class on this one. Nothing better than catching a few zzz's. You guys are now officially boring me to death. English course on a golf forum.

Give me your lunch money.

[BillVB]

This almost happenned yesterday and no one understood the rule for certain, even after looking up Rule 17.

All players in the 4-some are competitors - no partners, no caddies.

Play A is the putter, Player B (his competitor) attends the pin.

Player B fails to pull the pin and Player A's putt strikes it. (note: Player B could have doene this deliberately, carelessly, or the pin could have been stuck. You simply cannot determine or base a rule on Player B's intent unless you can get in his brain)

Does anyone get a penalty, if so who? Does the putt have to be replayed?

[adanac]

17-3/2

Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Attending Flagstick for Player Fails to Remove It; Player's Ball Strikes Flagstick

Q. A's ball lies on the putting green. A requests B, his opponent or fellow-competitor, to attend the flagstick, and B complies. A putts and B fails to remove the flagstick. A's ball strikes the flagstick. What is the ruling?

A. If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified, in both match play and stroke play, under Rule 33-7 for taking an action contrary to the spirit of the game. In stroke play, in equity (Rule 1-4), A must replay the stroke without penalty.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was with the intent to influence the movement of A's ball (e.g., for the purpose of preventing A's ball from going beyond the flagstick), B is in breach of Rule 1-2, and loses the hole in match play or incurs a two-stroke penalty in stroke play, whether the ball strikes the flagstick or not. In stroke play, if the ball struck the flagstick and as a result A suffered significant advantage or disadvantage, then the Committee could consider B to have committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the penalty for which is disqualification. Whether or not B has committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2, in stroke play, if A's ball struck the flagstick, in equity (Rule 1-4), A must replay the stroke without penalty - see Note 2 to Rule 1-2.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate (e.g., the flagstick stuck in the hole-liner or B was distracted and did not see A putt), since B was acting on A's behalf, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play under Rule 17-3. A must play the ball as it lies. B incurs no penalty. (Revised)