Ballooning irons - high, straight & short

[Mr. Chi]

Hoping someone has some suggestions I could try at the range

For the last few seasons, I've been struggling with my irons. I've been hitting my irons, particularly my short irons & wedges, high, straight & quite short. For example, I was hitting my PW around 110-115 prior to these issues, but I'm now hitting it around 90-95yrds.

This has been happening since my last swing change a few years ago. I now use a "consistent" ball position, more ahead in my stance - and a slightly more upright swing. Been reading to Nicklaus & Norman material. The change has given me confidence with woods off the deck at least.

I used to have a flatter swing and would move my ball position back as I used high lofted clubs. I tried going back to that a little at the range, but it doesn't feel comfortable now and was fighting both topped & fat shots. I was just wondering if anyone else with a Greg Norman-like swing & tempo has any suggestions (besides lessons suggestions please )

Now.....my average scores have improved since I'm hitting my irons straight & on target. But hitting 8-iron from 100 yards and hoping it makes it to the green doesn't do much for confidence (Neither would hitting a 7-iron from 100yrds). 5-iron from 150 is also unnerving...

(Opps....meant to put this in the instruction section)

[orangeTANG]

I suspect by moving the ball forward in your stance you are now hitting up on the ball basically adding loft to your club at impact. In addition, its possible if you are swinging to the left the club face may be open relative to path again meaning added loft.

Take a look at your divots, they should be ahead of the ball to ensure you are striking the ball on a downwards blow.

I went into golf school this winter hitting 2-3* up on the ball. The instructor had me move the ball back in my stance (I played the ball a few inches off my front foot before) to just forward of center for my mid irons, and a bit more for long irons. I now hit 2-3* down on the ball, and my divots start about 1-2" after the tee.

(I'm in no way an instructor - so take this all with a grain of salt!)

[Mr. Chi]

Thanks for the info jtersptr! I agree, I believe I'm hitting up on the ball as well. My divots are pretty much at the ball, not ahead unfortunately. The divots are mostly straight, but I have been prone to pulled shots - so I'll have to observe if I'm swinging left as well.

Do you have any tips or drills that you used to get used to hitting the ball more back in your stance?

That's what I was trying to do at the range, but had a hard time feeling comfortable/making clean contact.

[orangeTANG]

I don't really have drills for hitting balls further back in my stance (remember its still forward of center) however, the drill that really helped me learn to hit down on the ball came from an article in a recent Golf Digest, I believe from Nicklaus.

On the practice range try hovering your iron behind the ball before you swing. He said by doing this you naturally have to hit down on the golf ball to make contact and you'll learn how to hit down on the ball. You can also put a towel a few inches behind the ball (somewhat raised) and try to swing and hit the ball without hitting the towel. This will promote a steeper decent into the ball. The better you get the closer you can put the towel to the ball.

Something you could try keeping the ball in the position you feel comfortable with to see if you can get through the ball enough with it forward in your stance to still hit it with a decending blow.

It only took a few swings before I started to get that feeling of hitting down on the ball, and I was pretty quick going from 2-3* up to 2-3* down on the ball on the Flightscope after I tried this drill.

[Mr. Chi]

however, the drill that really helped me learn to hit down on the ball came from an article in a recent Golf Digest, I believe from Nicklaus.

On the practice range try hovering your iron behind the ball before you swing.

Oh my goodness....that's too funny! The hovering tip is both recommended by Jack & Greg Norman in their books, but I've only applied it to my driver! The answer could have been literally right in front of my face the entire time!!! LOL

Greg's take on hovering (I own this old book as well):
http://www.shark.com/sharkwatch/inst...n/lesson15.php

It did wonders for my driving for some reason too. Thanks, I'm going to try that next range session

[Mr. Chi]

Status update:
I hit the range and made some progress in eliminating my ballooning iron shots.


What worked:
1) Widening my stance.
I had been using a narrower stance (a la Norman). As I result, I had a more sweeping swing with very little divot. Widening my stance for my irons (especially my short irons) has helped me hit down, but I keep the narrowish stance for my woods.

2) A more straight back takeaway.
When I take the club back to much to the inside, my shoulders stay closed on the downswing. For my swing, it felt like I was leaving the clubface open since I have passive hands during the downswing. A straight back takeaway gave me the feeling of clearing my left shoulder on the downswing. It felt like I was hitting the ball with a square face & down the line after impact.

3) A smoother swing tempo
I tend to get a little quick & tense on my backswing. Keeping my body relaxed on the backswing kept my downswing from being too fast.

Both #2 & #3 also stopped my backswing from getting too long & added a very slight 'lag' at the top so that my downswing wasn't swinging hard from the top.

What didn’t work for me:
1) Moving my ball position back
I tried it again, but I ended up hitting more pushed shots. I had a hard time clearing my left shoulder on my downswing & catching the ball clean. Widening my stance was easier for me.

2) Tried a weaker & stronger grip
Resulted in pushes and pulls.

3) Hovering the club
Admittedly, I didn’t try it for long. It felt like too big of a change for a single range session. I may revisit this in the future.

[Mr. Chi]

Update #2:

None of my quick fixes held up on my first round with them. Not surprising, but I was hopeful anyways . It was also my first round with a new set of irons, so that was also another adjustment I wasn't comfortable with.

jterpstr was pretty much spot on - I'm just going to have to find a way to move the ball back in my stance/more forward shaft lean and hit down on the ball. At least my forward ball position & sweeping swing is still decent with my woods! (have to stay +ve )

[stevek]

I've struggled with this problem this year as well. Yesterday I had my best ball striking round by both moving the ball back a bit and also visually aiming an inch ahead of the ball. Unfortunately, I overshot a lot of greens as I struggled to adjust for new distances so the score did not reflect the improvement.

[Mr. Chi]

stevek, glad to hear someone found some light at the end of the tunnel. The troubles I've ran into while moving the ball back before were 1) pushing shots right 2) hitting super fat.

I haven't trying the aiming point ahead of the ball & a back ball position combined though, thanks for the tip - I plan on trying it

[stevek]

The aiming ahead of the ball makes the low point of the swing ahead of the ball and has allowed me to finally start taking some good divots.

[Mr. Chi]

Trolling WRX today, I also ran across the popular "Edit- A story for all golfers struggling to hit solid shots..." thread. As I've been struggling with my iron grip & setup at address, it shed some light on another possibility.

The gist of the thread from the OP is this:
"IMO the reason good ballstrikers fight a hook is because they are always fighting to work the clubface from slightly closed to square or they will over hook the ball.

The reason golfers who struggle to hit the ball with power and consistancy always fight a slice/push is because they are always fighting to work the clubface from open to square, just the opposite of the good ballstrikers.

Good ballstrikers talk about using the body more and the arms less, maybe what they are really saying is that any slight manipulation causes the clubface to be more closed at impact, result pull hooks."

Here's the video by Martin Chuck mentioned in the thread that visually explains everything:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ABj6x7J--uk

I believe this could apply to me. When I'm hitting my pushing my irons right, I have an open clubface during my waggle/practice swings. I've been moving my ball position way forward in order to give myself time to square the clubface, but then again - that's why I'm flipping & ballooning in the first place

I will be testing both this grip adjustment and stevek's aiming point to see if either helps me!

UPDATE:
This strong-left hand/weak right-hand grip did not work for me at all. Felt too unnatural and painful - will be posting another update soon!

[Gofish2]

If you ever get the opportunity, try out the Medicus Vision Track, a simple swing aid which got me closing the face and hitting draws.

[Mr. Chi]

So it looks like some minor adjustments to my swing may be the final pieces of the puzzle. I happen to run across this article by Jim Flick which gave me some confidence back with my irons:

Open the face slightly: Jack says that's better than square or closed
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instr.../jimflick_0707

Summary of the article:

Setting the clubface slightly open at address allows you to:
- Release the club fully without fear of hooking.
- Swing the club naturally with relaxed arms for maximum clubhead speed and therefore more distance.
- Develop better feel for how the club is aligned as it swings through impact.

inar01_flick0707.jpg

It turns out it's more natural for me to release my hands instead of using a strong-grip & holding off the release. With a strong grip, my hands had to flip at impact since I was holding off so much.

I combined this setup with a more natural grip for me (weaker left hand) & a shorter backswing (feels like 50% back, with much less shoulder turn). After rotating the face open, I can now keep my ball-position forward, release hard on the downswing, & not worry about hitting it left or flipping.

I find that the open clubface at address also encourages me to do my natural release on the downswing. I had a tendency for my arms to outrace my body before since I was holding off the release. Now everything feels back in sync on the downswing.

I've got my 150 yard 7-iron back, according to the flags at the range using my rangefinder. My full short iron & wedge shots are still a work-in-progress, but I suspect that I will need to work on keep my backswing even shorter for those clubs while focusing on a full release.

Thanks to everyone who contacted me with tips & ideas, it was much appreciated! I hope some of this info helps someone with similar patterns & problems

[Mr. Chi]

ARgh.....too much WOOD (works only one day) for me. Back to the drawing board, swing rebuild from scratch coming up.

[cheezemaster]

find one method and stick to it. if you were doing better wioth your previous swing method you should stick to that. its not how pretty your swing is its how effective. stop worrying so much. go back to what you were doing before.

[savosean]

I have a high launch on my ball flight as well with my irons, but my irons still make very good distance. Most of the height from mine are because i use graphite shafts with a certain amount of torque and cavity backs. your problem could be from your shafts...

[John]

You guys should start charging for your info!

[Txxxxxxx]

Haha!!!

[jmwhite]

find one method and stick to it. if you were doing better wioth your previous swing method you should stick to that. its not how pretty your swing is its how effective. stop worrying so much. go back to what you were doing before.

Stop giving out advice. You came here looking for advice remember cheezy?

[jmwhite]

Are these two guys for real? They're either the same guy posting with seperate accounts or a couple buddies trying to be funny.