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  1. #1
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Question Shaft flex VS swing speed?

    I am shopping around for a shaft for a driver head (SMT Deep Bore 455). All the major company like golfsmith.com for instance have a swing speed chart that relates to a flex. I was told over the years that that is wrong. Is it?

    http://www.golfsmith.com/cm/display_...num=learn_how5

    http://www.accuflexgolf.com/fitting.asp

    My swing speed is 111Mph. (PS: that is regular, not killing it). All the charts say that I need an X-stiff shaft. Do I?

    My setup right now is a grafalloy prolite 35-r on a Ping 10 degree TIST head. My regular carry distance is approximately 270Y. I hit an 8 iron 150.

    Is it possible that the shaft that I am using is too week for my swing speed and that would be causing my occasional hook? I have a proforce 65 gold low torque -S tip stiff 350 on my 3 wood. Would I be better off with that shaft on my driver?

    Shafts are so very confusing to me cause there are so many varieties.

    I am seeking help for the shaft gurus.

    Thanks
    Mike
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

  2. #2
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberube
    I am shopping around for a shaft for a driver head (SMT Deep Bore 455). All the major company like golfsmith.com for instance have a swing speed chart that relates to a flex. I was told over the years that that is wrong. Is it?

    http://www.golfsmith.com/cm/display_...num=learn_how5

    http://www.accuflexgolf.com/fitting.asp

    My swing speed is 111Mph. (PS: that is regular, not killing it). All the charts say that I need an X-stiff shaft. Do I?

    My setup right now is a grafalloy prolite 35-r on a Ping 10 degree TIST head. My regular carry distance is approximately 270Y. I hit an 8 iron 150.

    Is it possible that the shaft that I am using is too week for my swing speed and that would be causing my occasional hook? I have a proforce 65 gold low torque -S tip stiff 350 on my 3 wood. Would I be better off with that shaft on my driver?

    Shafts are so very confusing to me cause there are so many varieties.

    I am seeking help for the shaft gurus.

    Thanks
    Mike
    A lot of the charts that you come across simply relate a swing speed to a shaft flex designation. This was OK at one time, however, with the increased knowledge about shafts, their frequency profile, and so on, the old way is just no longer good enough. We also know that flex designations on a particular companies line of shafts can be radically different from another shaft manufacturer. Other factors need to be considered.

    Let me briefly describe how Tom Wishon recomends that a shaft be fitted:

    a Get your swing speed. 111 mph.

    b Determine your backswing to downswing transition
    1 Smooth - a distinct pause...
    2 Average - no distinct pause, but no "pouring it on."
    3 Forceful - a visible bend on the shaft.

    c. Swing Tempo
    1. Smooth swinger
    2. Average
    3. Fast a sense of aggression

    d. Release Move
    1. Early release
    2. Midway
    3 Late

    After selecting a number from each of steps b, c, and d, a weight range for an appropriate shaft is recommended and a tip and butt frequency profile. The current problem with this is that the host of shafts available have not all been profiled, however, many club makers are starting to do this. Also, most manufacturers say what kind of stiffness their shafts have in the tip area, but, do you trust them? If you don't have the Wishon information, select the 3 numbers that apply to you and I will give you his recommendation.

    I have a brief list of shafts and the frequency profile that I did on them, if you want to get a taste of just how different the frequencies can be. If you want to see it, send me a PM and an email address and I will send you the Exel file.

  3. #3
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    I have seen charts from a previous post. Reading those charts is a foreign language to me.

    The answer to question B, C, D is relative to ones eye. I feel like I am 2, 1 and 2 but I may look different to others.

    Just for the heck of it, 111MPH, 2, 1 and 2 would round up to what?

    My other question is, what is the downside of playing with a weaker shaft? Is it a loss of accuracy, distance, both……
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

  4. #4
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberube
    I have seen charts from a previous post. Reading those charts is a foreign language to me.

    The answer to question B, C, D is relative to ones eye. I feel like I am 2, 1 and 2 but I may look different to others.

    Just for the heck of it, 111MPH, 2, 1 and 2 would round up to what?

    My other question is, what is the downside of playing with a weaker shaft? Is it a loss of accuracy, distance, both……
    At 2,1,2 and 111 mph, the recommendation is for a butt soft or tip medium shaft, and the same for the tip. A little too general for me.

    While I don't have your swing speed, being in the 102 to 105 range, I have experimented with some stiff tipped shafts, like the Aldila NV S, Aldila One low launch, Harrisson Pro 2.5, all of which gave me a lower ball flight and some loss of distance. However, I did put 3 golfers at our club whose SS matches or is higher than yours in the SK Fiber Lite Revolution S flex, and it has worked well for all of them. Ironically, the LR R has a stiffer tip than the S, but the butt frequency of the S was 10 cpm's higher than the R. You can perhaps see why knowing the tip frequency is important. If your transition was fast then the Lite Revolution II would be a better choice as it supposedly has a stiff tip.

    When going from a soft butt frequency to a stiff one, the biggest difference I have noticed is a change in accuracy. More hook with the soft and more right or push with the stiff. My only experiment with distance occurred with 3 UST Profrorce 65's where I hit balls with and R, an S and then an X flex. My swing speeds were identical with all three.

  5. #5
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Mike.Quick question. Could it be that the shaft has nothing to do with your occasional hook? Could it be just a bad swing? If the shaft was the problem then you would consistantly hook the ball wouldn't you say?




    QUOTE=mberube]I am shopping around for a shaft for a driver head (SMT Deep Bore 455). All the major company like golfsmith.com for instance have a swing speed chart that relates to a flex. I was told over the years that that is wrong. Is it?

    http://www.golfsmith.com/cm/display_...num=learn_how5

    http://www.accuflexgolf.com/fitting.asp

    My swing speed is 111Mph. (PS: that is regular, not killing it). All the charts say that I need an X-stiff shaft. Do I?

    My setup right now is a grafalloy prolite 35-r on a Ping 10 degree TIST head. My regular carry distance is approximately 270Y. I hit an 8 iron 150.

    Is it possible that the shaft that I am using is too week for my swing speed and that would be causing my occasional hook? I have a proforce 65 gold low torque -S tip stiff 350 on my 3 wood. Would I be better off with that shaft on my driver?

    Shafts are so very confusing to me cause there are so many varieties.

    I am seeking help for the shaft gurus.

    Thanks
    Mike[/QUOTE]

  6. #6
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Cantin
    Mike.Quick question. Could it be that the shaft has nothing to do with your occasional hook? Could it be just a bad swing? If the shaft was the problem then you would consistantly hook the ball wouldn't you say?
    I know what you are saying and it may be true to some instinct but I did notice that I must slowdown my swing considerably to be consistent with my driver. When I try a stiff shaft on a different driver, I fade the ball. I hit a power fade with my 3I. Is it normal to hook a driver and fade a 3I? I am deducting that the shaft is the problem but I could be wrong.
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

  7. #7
    Hopelessly Addicted el tigre is on a distinguished road el tigre's Avatar
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    Mike:

    While I can't argue with anything Andre and BC Mist are saying, I have the feeling it might be confusing you even more.

    While it is true that there is more to choosing shaft flex than your swing speed, it is still a good place to start. While it is true that there are golfers with your swing speed that are best suited to a regular flex shaft, they tend to be in the minority. IMHO you should go for a professional clubfitting - you obviously take the game seriously enough that you would really benefit from this. At the very least you should start experimenting with stiff flex shafts.
    [COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]

  8. #8
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberube
    I know what you are saying and it may be true to some instinct but I did notice that I must slowdown my swing considerably to be consistent with my driver. When I try a stiff shaft on a different driver, I fade the ball. I hit a power fade with my 3I. Is it normal to hook a driver and fade a 3I? I am deducting that the shaft is the problem but I could be wrong.
    Mike. You'll probably get to play with bigeasy if you're still a member at the dome. The guy hits it a mile and draws the ball. He plays with an X stiff shaft. Occasionally though he'll lose one(big duck hook). I don't think it is the shaft. It is a bad swing.

    If you hook the ball with the driver and powerfade your 3 iron you could be very well swinging slightly from over the top. I am no golf pro by a long shot but that is usually the case.

    A different shaft could help but then again which one? Some of them are regular flex but have a very stiff tip and soft butts while others have a very soft tip and firm
    butts. As a general rule of thumb though the stiffer the shaft the better for the hooker as the ball will have a tendency to take off to the right.

    Anyway a lot of people are blaming the shaft but I know from experience that a different head will also react differently. I once assembled the same shaft in 2 different club heads and got different results. With one clubhead I was fading and with the other I was drawing. Go figure.

    Anyway my next experiment with drivers will be with the adjustable weight driver. Not an OEM. Too expensive and too much marketing hype. 25 different configurations. Less than $100. Take a look.

    http://stores.yahoo.com/dynacraftgolf/screwdriver.html
    Last edited by Chieflongtee; 06-26-2006 at 09:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Cantin
    Mike. You'll probably get to play with bigeasy if you're still a member at the dome. The guy hits it a mile and draws the ball. He plays with an X stiff shaft. Occasionally though he'll lose one(big duck hook). I don't think it is the shaft. It is a bad swing.

    If you hook the ball with the driver and powerfade your 3 iron you could be very well swinging slightly from over the top. I am no golf pro by a long shot but that is usually the case.

    A different shaft could help but then again which one? Some of them are regular flex but have a very stiff tip and soft butts while others have a very soft tip and firm
    butts. As a general rule of thumb though the stiffer the shaft the better for the hooker as the ball will have a tendency to take off to the right.

    Anyway a lot of people are blaming the shaft but I know from experience that a different head will also react differently. I once assembled the same shaft in 2 different club heads and got different results. With one clubhead I was fading and with the other I was drawing. Go figure.

    Anyway my next experiment with drivers will be with the adjustable weight driver. Not an OEM. Too expensive and too much marketing hype. 25 different configurations. Less than $100. Take a look.

    http://stores.yahoo.com/dynacraftgolf/screwdriver.html
    Sometimes I do swing from the top a bit but only when I am tired, stressed out in a tournament or play an important match. This causes a duck hook but I can feel that in my swing.

    What I am talking about is hitting from right to left hook. This means I am coming from the inside and the face snap through. Let me rephrase my question. If you configure a robot to swing my regular swing, if you putt a soft shaft and swing the robot at 111 Mph, would the face snap through with a closed face?

    I always thought that a weak shaft would snap closed and strong shaft would stay open at impact.

    At the Ottawa golf show I talked to my friend Marc Peterson (Golf director at the OAC). He is now equipped with a launch monitor. I am booking a sessoin with him in mid April. Can’t wait. I hope to get my hands on a SMT deep bore 455 to try on it to see if a deep bore head suits my swing.

    I will post the results.
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

  10. #10
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberube
    I always thought that a weak shaft would snap closed and strong shaft would stay open at impact.

    .
    You are correct in your assesment. A low torque tip stiff shaft would be in order.

  11. #11
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    testing notifications...
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  12. #12
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby
    testing notifications...
    Looks ok now!
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

  13. #13
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberube
    Looks ok now!
    I've been doing some work with the mail server trying to get this working properly. We had an issue with relaying mail properly and got that fixed this morning around 9:00 or so. The only thing really left is the fact that it appears that the notifications are not always sent out by the forum software. It's still a little murky...
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  14. #14
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby
    I've been doing some work with the mail server trying to get this working properly. We had an issue with relaying mail properly and got that fixed this morning around 9:00 or so. The only thing really left is the fact that it appears that the notifications are not always sent out by the forum software. It's still a little murky...

    Cool! I will let you guys now if I notice something else.

    Mike
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

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