Rules clarification regarding range finders

[Marcos]

Can anyone chime in here as far as OVGA or other sanctioned tournements what the rules are regarding range finders or other equippement ex. Golfbuddy etc.... I'm not talking pro's on tour just the regular guys and galls of the Ottawa-Gatineau area.
Just curious as when you can or can not use them
Thank you.

[gbower]

If the Distance Measuring Devices are to be used at a club it must be a local rule at the club to allow them. They also cannot give anything other than distance as some can give slope and they are not allowed. In all OVGA, Golf Quebec & Golf Association of Ontario tournaments they have it on their hard card as a local rule allowing them. If you use a GPS on a smart phone that may be able to measure gradient, compass, wind speed or temperature then this is also not allowed even if it can be turned off.

[BC MIST]

Can anyone chime in here as far as OVGA or other sanctioned tournements what the rules are regarding range finders or other equippement ex. Golfbuddy etc.... I'm not talking pro's on tour just the regular guys and galls of the Ottawa-Gatineau area.
Just curious as when you can or can not use them
Thank you.

Distance measuring devices that measure distance only, are permitted in OVGA, Golf Quebec and Golf Association of Ontario tournaments. Individual golf clubs may, under Rule 14-3, institute a local rule allowing them to be used for every day play. Otherwise, they are not permitted. Many golfers make an incorrect assumption that because their club is a member of the OVGA, that DMD's are automatically permitted.

Note: Gerry beats me in posting speed and on rules exams. It's a good thing he can't beat me in golf.

[Marcos]

Nice to hear from you two gentleman. Thanks for clearing things up.

[LobWedge]

I carry two distance measuring devices when I play.

My right eye, and my left eye.

[gbower]

I carry two distance measuring devices when I play.

My right eye, and my left eye.

And neither one works very good!!!

[mgedit]

Just out of curiosity, anyone know of a local course that does not allow distance measuring devices? Most of the discussion I've heard is usually about whether a course has been mapped for GPS. Seems many people now use some sort of device. Practically, trying to ban them will soon be like trying to ban cellphones at concerts and shows ... just won't be feasible for everyday play. Cheers, Mike

[gbower]

I'd bet that very few courses have them allowed under their local rules and few members read the courses local rules.

[mgedit]

So almost all our handicaps are invalid

[gbower]

Just don't use an illegal one in tournament play.

[AAA]

So almost all our handicaps are invalid

Doesn't the RGCA/USGA handicap system require that scores are posted for rounds played when the DMD local rule is not in force?

[adanac]

Doesn't the RGCA/USGA handicap system require that scores are posted for rounds played when the DMD local rule is not in force?

Yes, posting of these scores is required, and the same was true even before the DMD local Rule was permitted.

[2Low4U]

Range measuring devices are legal to use in all local (OVGA) and Provincial (Golf Quebec, GAO) tournament play as long as they do not calculate slope, distance only. At any Golf Canada (Canadian Am/Canadian University/College Championships) or USGA (U.S Am, U.S Pub Links) sanctioned events they are not permitted for use, but they supply yardage books for all participants (Golf Canada Only), USGA does not.

[mpare]

Historically, Golf Canada and the provincial organizations also used to provide (they most likely still do so) to competitors in their events precise pin location sheets on the day of the event.

Range measuring devices are legal to use in all local (OVGA) and Provincial (Golf Quebec, GAO) tournament play as long as they do not calculate slope, distance only. At any Golf Canada (Canadian Am/Canadian University/College Championships) or USGA (U.S Am, U.S Pub Links) sanctioned events they are not permitted for use, but they supply yardage books for all participants (Golf Canada Only), USGA does not.

[Laura Lipson]

I was disappointed to hear that OVGA, Golf Quebec and Golf Association of Ontario tournaments are now allowing the use of distance measuring devices as Golf Canada events do not allow them. How do you ever expect to learn to estimate yardage by using technology versus your own brain? If you get a good golf teacher, they can teach you how to estimate the yardage at least as well as any distance measuring device. Golf rules officials are there to aid players with the appropriate rulings, drops etc. Conversely, they are also there to assess penalties according to the rules of golf. I teach golf students to always ask an event official if in any doubt (unlike Dustin Johnson).

[mpare]

I understand your sentiment, but do not agree with it. These devices are, to some extent, a proxy for comprehensive yardage books and prepared caddies, whose assistance has been resorted to by players for decades. Moreover, tournament organizers from one end of the country to the other have been handing out to tournament players precise daily pin placement sheets, another invaluable aid to estimating distances to the pin. Tournament players rarely, if ever, relied or rely on their best guess for the distance to the pin save for relatively short shots. Like other players, when I played amateur tournaments, I would regularly prepare detailed yardage books prior to the event. This was especially important for courses that I had never seen. I see little difference between using those aids and my GPS.

I was disappointed to hear that OVGA, Golf Quebec and Golf Association of Ontario tournaments are now allowing the use of distance measuring devices as Golf Canada events do not allow them. How do you ever expect to learn to estimate yardage by using technology versus your own brain? If you get a good golf teacher, they can teach you how to estimate the yardage at least as well as any distance measuring device. Golf rules officials are there to aid players with the appropriate rulings, drops etc. Conversely, they are also there to assess penalties according to the rules of golf. I teach golf students to always ask an event official if in any doubt (unlike Dustin Johnson).

[Laura Lipson]

Thanks for your comment. My point is that golfers should be appropriately taught the skill of estimating yardage without the aid of technology by a good golf teacher. As a tournament player, you would likely have a caddie to tell you the yardage if need be. Your caddie would have the pin placement sheets and yardage books to aid in estimating yardage for you. In Golf Canada events these devices are not permitted and so if you become reliant on this technology, not having it to use may actually be a detriment to you in a "truly fair golf competition". I highly recommend to all golfers who are looking to compete, get yourself a good golf teacher to help them prepare for your upcoming golf event. A good golf teacher can help you fully prepare for golf tournaments at any level of competition.

[mpare]

I agree fully with all of your comments. However, I believe that your laudable desire to see players schooled by a golf golf professional is not inconsistent with the appropriate use of electronic yardage devices. To further your point, I have observed that many amateurs who can pound the ball prodigious distances are completely unaware of how to approach a course strategically. More than that, many don't appear to appreciate that there are ways to finesse a course by hitting less than full shots or always going for par fives in two. Finally, there are far too many average or below-average players who waste time estimating yardages to the inch, when their distance control would be considered successful if they were to hit the ball within 15 yards of their target point.

Thanks for your comment. My point is that golfers should be appropriately taught the skill of estimating yardage without the aid of technology by a good golf teacher. As a tournament player, you would likely have a caddie to tell you the yardage if need be. Your caddie would have the pin placement sheets and yardage books to aid in estimating yardage for you. In Golf Canada events these devices are not permitted and so if you become reliant on this technology, not having it to use may actually be a detriment to you in a "truly fair golf competition". I highly recommend to all golfers who are looking to compete, get yourself a good golf teacher to help them prepare for your upcoming golf event. A good golf teacher can help you fully prepare for golf tournaments at any level of competition.

[Laura Lipson]

Thanks for your comment. Please be advised that I am not against range finders for amateur players as long as they don't take more time playing in order to use them. However, anyone using these devices should be aware that they should not announce that yardage information to any playing partners as this would be considered giving golf advice and is a violation of the rules of golf. I once joined 3 guys at a premier local golf course and one of them had a range finder and he would announce out loud it's reading on the tees at par 3's or for his buddies when requested. He also lied to them about the reading a few times which his playing partners swallowed because they too had become reliant on his technology. It cost them strokes and thus the device became a playing advantage for the user. Golfers who are not golf teachers should not give golf advice or estimated yardage at any time during play. Only golf teachers or player caddies should advise golfers. Hope to see you all for lessons soon.

[jvincent]

However, anyone using these devices should be aware that they should not announce that yardage information to any playing partners as this would be considered giving golf advice and is a violation of the rules of golf.

Actually that is incorrect. The yardage obtained from a GPS or rangefinder is information and is no different from the yardage printed on a sprinkler head and it is permitted to share that information.

What is not permitted is to say "It's 170 yards, you should hit a 6-iron."

[mpare]

I agree with you, John. The distance from point A to point B, is factual information, the imparting of which does not offend the rules. See, for instance, Decision 8-1/2 and 8-1/3.

Actually that is incorrect. The yardage obtained from a GPS or rangefinder is information and is no different from the yardage printed on a sprinkler head and it is permitted to share that information.

What is not permitted is to say "It's 170 yards, you should hit a 6-iron."

[Laura Lipson]

Actually that is incorrect. The yardage obtained from a GPS or rangefinder is information and is no different from the yardage printed on a sprinkler head and it is permitted to share that information.

What is not permitted is to say "It's 170 yards, you should hit a 6-iron."

For clarification purposes from the 2012 RCGA Rules of Golf

8-1. Advice
During a stipulated round, a player must not:
a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other
than his partner, or
b. ask for advice from anyone other than his partner or either of their caddies.

[jvincent]

I am familiar with the rule.

Information on a yardage is not advice, it is information. Check the decisions if you dont believe me on this one.

[gbower]

I'll back jvincent on this one as he's bang on. I bet that's a first for you John!!!!

[mpare]

Easy there Gerry, John knows a lot about more than you could possibly imagine.

[jvincent]

I'll back jvincent on this one as he's bang on. I bet that's a first for you John!!!!

I'm right all the time! Just ask my wife.

[gbower]

Easy there Gerry, John knows a lot about more than you could possibly imagine.

I know Mike but have to prod at him a bit. You guys should both become rules officials as you know more than most.

[jvincent]

Thanks for the kind words Gerry but I'm too busy golfing to be officiating right now.

[Txxxxxxx]

John for the win on this one. As previously mentioned, this is not "advice", it is the same info that is available on scorecards and yardage books.

[nokids]

Thanks for your comment. Please be advised that I am not against range finders for amateur players as long as they don't take more time playing in order to use them. However, anyone using these devices should be aware that they should not announce that yardage information to any playing partners as this would be considered giving golf advice and is a violation of the rules of golf. I once joined 3 guys at a premier local golf course and one of them had a range finder and he would announce out loud it's reading on the tees at par 3's or for his buddies when requested. He also lied to them about the reading a few times which his playing partners swallowed because they too had become reliant on his technology. It cost them strokes and thus the device became a playing advantage for the user. Golfers who are not golf teachers should not give golf advice or estimated yardage at any time during play. Only golf teachers or player caddies should advise golfers. Hope to see you all for lessons soon.