What to look for in an Instructor/Pro?

[styxx_78]

Hi everyone,
I am looking forward to my 2nd golf season this coming summer and am thinking of getting some lessons.
There are so many golf schools here in Ottawa with so many qualified instructors. What should I consider when choosing an instructor? Also, what can I expect from these lessons as far as training on course management? Do any of them actually take you out on the course? Or do most of them just teach you how to swing a club?
As a beginner golfer I think I have a decent swing, although it still obviously needs some honing, but I feel when I go out if I managed the course a bit better i'm sure I could shave off a few strokes.

[mberube]

Hi Styxx! Welcome to the forum.

I am not saying that you don’t have a good swing but a video lesson brings all our feet on the ground. Us amateurs all think we have decent swings until we see ourselves on video.

That said, Marc Peterson is a very good instructor. He is at the OAC in the wintertime and at Falcon ridge in the summer. He was 1999 CPGA teaching pro of the year, 2003 and 2004 golf digest top 50 best teaching directors.

He will go step by step with you to make you a better golfer. Course management, swing thoughts, posture, you name it he will do it.

You can look him up at the OAC.

[davevandyk]

i think a very important area to look at for teachers is how they teach. There are two different teachers, those who teach "systems" and those who tailor to each individual. I would make sure that you get an instructor who isn't teaching a method out of a book, or from a video. I haven't ever taken lesson before, but i have heard that this is very important. GOOD LUCK!!!

[styxx_78]

mberube said:

I am not saying that you don’t have a good swing but a video lesson brings all our feet on the ground. Us amateurs all think we have decent swings until we see ourselves on video.

I guess I sounded and little over confident there didn't I? I guess a more accurate description of my swing is "I can hit the ball without missing and most of the time it goes in the direction I intended. I have no doubt on a video lesson that I have many flaws in my technique.
Thanks for the suggestion of a video lesson, this is the kind of answer I am looking for since I have no idea of the techniques golf instructors use. If other people have benefitted from these techniques then I may aswell.

davevandyk said:

There are two different teachers, those who teach "systems" and those who tailor to each individual. I would make sure that you get an instructor who isn't teaching a method out of a book

dave thanks for the advice, this makes sense in my mind.

I guess what I am really looking for is an instructor who will asses what I am doing right and wrong, fix what I am doing completely wrong, warn me about bad habits I may have developed in my short time swinging a club, and help me with playing the course more effectively.

[dbleber]

Hi everyone,
I am looking forward to my 2nd golf season this coming summer and am thinking of getting some lessons.
There are so many golf schools here in Ottawa with so many qualified instructors. What should I consider when choosing an instructor? Also, what can I expect from these lessons as far as training on course management? Do any of them actually take you out on the course? Or do most of them just teach you how to swing a club?
As a beginner golfer I think I have a decent swing, although it still obviously needs some honing, but I feel when I go out if I managed the course a bit better i'm sure I could shave off a few strokes.

Run out to Pineviw and join their golf school. They still have a month left and its only a $100 bucks. You get unlimited CPGA instruction and video analysis. They are open 7 days a week and you can pratice 8am-8pm with instructors there for 7 hours a day/evening. The instruction switches days and evenings and they are great guys, best deal in the city.
(Put me on the payroll Marty!)
Denny

[Kilroy]

Lessons are usually ongoing. Start with a video and identify one or two things to correct. Not too much, that would be confusing. Work with the pro to resolve the first issues, then move on to the next thing. Only keep one or two goals in mind at a time, and check in with the pro to monitor your progress. How often you do this depends on how much you practice and work on the drills.

[mberube]

Run out to Pineviw and join their golf school. They still have a month left and its only a $100 bucks. You get unlimited CPGA instruction and video analysis. They are open 7 days a week and you can pratice 8am-8pm with instructors there for 7 hours a day/evening. The instruction switches days and evenings and they are great guys, best deal in the city.
(Put me on the payroll Marty!)
Denny

That’s a great deal! You can’t go wrong there!!

[BC MIST]

i think a very important area to look at for teachers is how they teach. There are two different teachers, those who teach "systems" and those who tailor to each individual. I would make sure that you get an instructor who isn't teaching a method out of a book, or from a video. I haven't ever taken lesson before, but i have heard that this is very important. GOOD LUCK!!!

There are local teachers who seem not to teach a method, but only a series of Golf Digest's latest tips of the month, whereas if the teacher teaches a method, you know that he has at least studied its components and has a series of drills to help you move from what you are now doing towards a swing model that is more effective.

Regardless, the teacher has to guide you to get your arms and club shaft "ON PLANE" in the downswing, a position from which straight shots can be achieved. And, it is assumed that they know what this term means. Achieving good golf swing fundamentals is not difficult to do and a good pro will give you the knowledge first, of what you are trying to achieve and then a means to achieve it.

There are pros who will teach you an upright golf swing with a "flying" right elbow. One can play good golf from this position but you had better have better than average athletic talent to get the club back down on plane. A teacher who tries to get you closer to the plane on the backswing, makes it easier to get on plane in the downswing.

FWIW: ON PLANE means that, when on the downswing, the part of your golf club that is closest to the ground, is pointing at the target line or the target line extended, from waist high before impact to waist high post impact. TGM, Chuck Evan's Golf, Mark Evershed, Mac O'Grady, John Dunnigan are examples of these "methods" that get you into this ideal position.

[Andru]

Hi everyone,
I am looking forward to my 2nd golf season this coming summer and am thinking of getting some lessons.
There are so many golf schools here in Ottawa with so many qualified instructors. What should I consider when choosing an instructor? Also, what can I expect from these lessons as far as training on course management? Do any of them actually take you out on the course? Or do most of them just teach you how to swing a club?
As a beginner golfer I think I have a decent swing, although it still obviously needs some honing, but I feel when I go out if I managed the course a bit better i'm sure I could shave off a few strokes.

Communication, versatility, experience

If you hear any of these things run.

1) You take 6 swings and he/she tells you 6 different things you're doing wrong
2) Tells you your elbow has to be at 90 degrees at the top of your swing.
3) Mentions the "X-Factor" or "Y-Factor"
4) "Hello my name is David Leadbetter"
5) "Hello my name is Jim Maclean"
6) "You should buy my 6 lesson program up front"

If you've taken a lesson and after 1 lesson you're not doing something, anything better don't return.

IE. I sent a friend to see Bob farant a few years ago. The first lesson was spent pitching balls 10, 20 , 30 yards. This person after one lesson was doing this much better. Learning how to make solid contact with the ball is a terrific building block.

[BC MIST]

Communication, versatility, experience

If you hear any of these things run.

1) You take 6 swings and he/she tells you 6 different things you're doing wrong
2) Tells you your elbow has to be at 90 degrees at the top of your swing.
3) Mentions the "X-Factor" or "Y-Factor"
4) "Hello my name is David Leadbetter"
5) "Hello my name is Jim Maclean"
6) "You should buy my 6 lesson program up front"

If you've taken a lesson and after 1 lesson you're not doing something, anything better don't return.

IE. I sent a friend to see Bob farant a few years ago. The first lesson was spent pitching balls 10, 20 , 30 yards. This person after one lesson was doing this much better. Learning how to make solid contact with the ball is a terrific building block.

Nice list.

Add Dean Rieumuth between Leadbetter and MacLean.

Bobby Farant is one of the good local teaching professionals.

[styxx_78]

What kind of price can I expect to pay for a good instructor?

Where can Bobby Farant be found? Does anyone else recommend him?

[mberube]

What kind of price can I expect to pay for a good instructor?

Where can Bobby Farant be found? Does anyone else recommend him?

David Leadbetter and Jim Maclean charge about $2000/h. (and by the way, teaches great players on tour so in my opinion are great references ) !!!!

A good teacher could cost you from $30 to $80/h.

[BC MIST]

This little bit of information I got from a website and seems to be apropos.

There are 5 things that you absolutely, positively must look for with any golf instruction:

1. Does the Teacher KNOW what the swing plane is and can they correctly describe it?
2. Can the Teacher explain the ONLY three things that MUST happen in a proper golf stroke?
3. Can the Teacher define and demonstrate what the options are for taking the club back and down?
4. Does the Teacher use video? Probably so, but do they know WHERE to place the camera(s)?
5. Finally, does your Teacher know how to teach "LAG" or even what it means.

Number 2 I find fascinating and helps to indicate why a good golf swing is relatively easy to achieve if one has the knowledge and understanding of what needs to be developed. It also puts the complicated methods of Leadbetter, Maclean and the boys in their proper place, inspite of the name pros who are in their camps.

[mberube]

And why do you think that Leadbetter, Maclean and the boys are not able to answer to all those questions?

I think that a guys like Faldo is a lot more qualified to know if a teacher is a good one or a bad one then any of us in this forum. Els, Norman, Price is to name a few big names that worked or works with Leadbetter.

Personally, I don’t like the way Leadbetter and Maclean teaches but they are still top 50 in America. I don’t think that Golf digest and Golf Channel would promote them if they had no clue and I don’t think Leadbetter is on TV and in magazines for he’s pretty face cause he in ugliest SOB if have seen on TV.

[dbleber]

I don’t think Leadbetter is on TV and in magazines for he’s pretty face cause he in ugliest SOB if have seen on TV.

Thats just funny because its true! The one guy i wouldn't want a lesson from is Miller, seems like he would call you a dumbass if you didn't have the perfect swing after 5 mins of lessons. I lesson with him would have me swinging at 2 balls!
Denny

[jbrace]

Thats just funny because its true! The one guy i wouldn't want a lesson from is Miller, seems like he would call you a dumbass if you didn't have the perfect swing after 5 mins of lessons. I lesson with him would have me swinging at 2 balls!
Denny

Be careful Denny. Lot's of Miller fans in here. And I'm not talking about the beer...

[BC MIST]

And why do you think that Leadbetter, Maclean and the boys are not able to answer to all those questions?

I would be appalled if any instructor, local or "world class" were not able to anwser the questions, particularly #2, but I would bet a couple of beers that you would find some who could not. In fact, I know some who don't.

I am no expert, but I have looked at a large number of methods taught over too many years and have pigeon holed them into two boxes. Those who teach a method based on perception and feeling, and those who teach a method based on some sort of science. The former group seem to teach a swing that is very upright which requires a lot of lower body movement to get the club square at impact. If you are highly talented, it's not a problem. The latter group seem teach a flatter swing, one where the body is used for balance and stablization. The net difference is that the golfers of the latter group are more consistent ball strikers, while the former group seem to be streakier players. For we hacks, my guess is that most would like to be more consistent.

I think that a guys like Faldo is a lot more qualified to know if a teacher is a good one or a bad one then any of us in this forum. Els, Norman, Price is to name a few big names that worked or works with Leadbetter.

The measure of how good an instructor is not determined by the PGA Tour pros they have taught, but by how well they would teach guys like you and me, and everybody else on this forum. And for $1000+ per hour, would I get 10 times the value seeing Leadbetter over going to Bobby Farrant, for example, at $100 per hour? Not very likely. There is no doubt that Leadbetter's method has helped a large number of people, however, his exceptionally technical approach has reportedly hurt or stifled many, too. If you have watched Jim MacLean's "Eight Step Swing," you may be able to understand why golfers' progress is slower that it should be. I still say that the best teachers are at the local clubs and/or driving ranges, and not necessarily those that we see on TV.
That they teach Tour pros reminds me of a professer at Teachers' College who once said to our class, "Anyone can teach the smart ones, but it takes a teacher to teach the slow ones." IMO, this applies to golf students, as well.

[jvincent]

2. Can the Teacher explain the ONLY three things that MUST happen in a proper golf stroke?

I have to bite on this one. So what are the ONLY three things?

Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, there may be different things.

E.g. hitting a blast from a greenside bunker vs. tee shot with driver vs. mid iron from the fairway.

Perhaps over simplifying, I can only think of two:

1. The clubhead need to be in the correct position WRT to the ball at impact.
2. The path of the clubhead in the moving in the correct direction wrt to the ball at impact.

Note that these can be different depending on the shot you are trying to accomplish and do not necessarily imply that you hit the ball first or squarely. I guess if you seperate angle of attack from path that would become three things.

[dbleber]

Be careful Denny. Lot's of Miller fans in here. And I'm not talking about the beer...

Hey, If they can't take a joke.............most take themselves to seriously anyway!
Denny

[el tigre]

I guess what I am really looking for is an instructor who will asses what I am doing right and wrong, fix what I am doing completely wrong, warn me about bad habits I may have developed in my short time swinging a club, and help me with playing the course more effectively.

Hello styxx and welcome to the forum (if you are still hanging around). I see that a number of people have already chimed in about how to teach the golf swing, but IMHO the essence of teaching ANYTHING really boils down to three things:

1) KNOWLEDGE: You need to know what a good golf swing is before you can teach it. I think you could pick almost any CPGA pro and they would have this.
2) ANALYTICAL ABILITY: This is the ability to see the TRUE problem in order to figure out what the solution may be. This is where the use of video really helps, but IMHO it is equally important if the teacher can understand the way the student sees/feels/thinks about the golf swing. Many times changing someones perceptions and thoughts about the swing is as important as working on the physical stuff.
3) COMMUNICATION: It's no good knowing the answers if they can't get it through to you. If understanding what your teacher is saying is a problem, it is time to get a new teacher.

There are lots of instructors out there that have these things, and with #3 above the right person for me may not necessarily be the right person for you. Pick someone and try one lesson and then take it from there. Good luck!

[styxx_78]

el tigre,
Yes, I am still here...although I did take the weekend off from the forums.

Reading through this thread, i see everyone has there bit to say and there is a lot of advice here...almost too much to take in.

I guess I am just going to have to go out and speak to some instructors and see if they have what I am looking for.
A lot of what I am looking for is what has been mentioned in here and I appreciate everyone comments.

[Golfpeasant]

Run out to Pineviw and join their golf school. They still have a month left and its only a $100 bucks. You get unlimited CPGA instruction and video analysis. They are open 7 days a week and you can pratice 8am-8pm with instructors there for 7 hours a day/evening. The instruction switches days and evenings and they are great guys, best deal in the city.
(Put me on the payroll Marty!)
Denny

This is a fantastic deal, next year I'll try this...

[Big_duck]

I want to use Kenny Perrey's swing coach. Anyone who could get a player to play that well, with a swing that bad is aces in my book.

[mberube]

I want to use Kenny Perrey's swing coach. Anyone who could get a player to play that well, with a swing that bad is aces in my book.

There are no bad swings. There is only bad timing.

[BC MIST]

I want to use Kenny Perrey's swing coach. Anyone who could get a player to play that well, with a swing that bad is aces in my book.

Ahh, but beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. While he may look like Phyllis Diller going back, he is Pamela Anderson coming down.

[mberube]

Pamela Anderson coming down.

I like that thought!

[Golfpeasant]

Run out to Pineviw and join their golf school. They still have a month left and its only a $100 bucks. You get unlimited CPGA instruction and video analysis. They are open 7 days a week and you can pratice 8am-8pm with instructors there for 7 hours a day/evening. The instruction switches days and evenings and they are great guys, best deal in the city.
(Put me on the payroll Marty!)
Denny

Denny, is this deal offered every year, for the last week of the school ? Or was it this year only? What is the price of the school starting at the beginning of winter?

Any info appreciated, thanks.