Ban the belly now!

[fundonny]

It lives! Just like the ugly putting! For now

[Wknd_Warrior]

Of course, if I had my way, drivers would be capped at 300cc and .79 co, iron heads would at least have to be made of one piece of something, you can forget about 90% of the putters made in the last 20 years lol.

[tigger12]

Just an extension of the anchoring topic. Matt Kuchar holds it against his forearm. Odyssey is coming out with bent shafts that allow the putter shaft to stay connected all along the forearm.
What do people think of this?

[scottishgolf]

Blasphemy , what a great description , damn I wish I had used that one , my thoughts exactly

[Wknd_Warrior]

Just an extension of the anchoring topic. Matt Kuchar holds it against his forearm. Odyssey is coming out with bent shafts that allow the putter shaft to stay connected all along the forearm.
What do people think of this?

I don't like it. Hold the club in your hands, make a stroke. Isn't that how it's always been done up to 10 years ago?

Again, these guys playing competitively, I wouldn't hold it against them for standing on their head to putt if the rules allowed it and it helped their game.

[scottishgolf]

Just an extension of the anchoring topic. Matt Kuchar holds it against his forearm. Odyssey is coming out with bent shafts that allow the putter shaft to stay connected all along the forearm.
What do people think of this?

Again I'm not for this one , I really do think that the big guys who enforce the rules on us should have gone a bit further with the proposed ban on anchored putters , I had hoped they would have brought in some sort of maximum shaft lenth , to me they have just tried to limit the amout of complaints from tour pros by still allowing long putters , sort of a bad trade of if you want to think of it that way

[Kiwi]

I'm not a student of the History of Golf, so correct me if I'm missing something here. Where does all this "unrest" come from re: the belly/anchored putter? Unfair advantage? Come on folks... Over-size AND metal "woods"; steel then carbon fibre shafts; grooves; limited number of clubs (I'm a little sketchy on this one); plastic spikes; GPS; compression balls; manicured fairways and greens... I'm sure there are more... so why the big deal about a longer putter? It's not changing or ruining the game any more than the other "advancements" since the game was invented. If things did not change then we'd still have white male players and black caddies at Augusta...

[BC MIST]

I'm not a student of the History of Golf, so correct me if I'm missing something here. Where does all this "unrest" come from re: the belly/anchored putter? Unfair advantage? Come on folks... Over-size AND metal "woods"; steel then carbon fibre shafts; grooves; limited number of clubs (I'm a little sketchy on this one); plastic spikes; GPS; compression balls; manicured fairways and greens... I'm sure there are more... so why the big deal about a longer putter? It's not changing or ruining the game any more than the other "advancements" since the game was invented. If things did not change then we'd still have white male players and black caddies at Augusta...

Thirteen clubs are swing freely; one is not. The ruling bodies want all 14 to be swung freely. Simple.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I'm not a student of the History of Golf, so correct me if I'm missing something here. Where does all this "unrest" come from re: the belly/anchored putter? Unfair advantage? Come on folks... Over-size AND metal "woods"; steel then carbon fibre shafts; grooves; limited number of clubs (I'm a little sketchy on this one); plastic spikes; GPS; compression balls; manicured fairways and greens... I'm sure there are more... so why the big deal about a longer putter? It's not changing or ruining the game any more than the other "advancements" since the game was invented. If things did not change then we'd still have white male players and black caddies at Augusta...

I don't see the point of dumbing down the game to make better scores, It's all relative anyhow. Ultimately It takes away from the game.

[nokids]

I guess the word cheater hits a nerve.

Im kidding about the cheater label. No intent to offend you. But come on, do you people not realize how ridiculous you look ? it's like shooting free throws underhanded.

Ps: No bucket hat jokes please

[justsomeguy]

Thirteen clubs are swing freely; one is not. The ruling bodies want all 14 to be swung freely. Simple.

I could not find any rule that prohibits anchoring ANY club (if that's what you wished to do), or dictates that a club must "swing freely":

14-1. Ball to be Fairly Struck At The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

It seems to me that a long putter does that. Furthermore, there is nothing in the definition of a stroke that would indicate that "anchoring" a club should not meet that definition:

Stroke
A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball...

Just because someone found a new (and perhaps better) way to do something does not mean that it should dismissed out-of-hand as cheating. There are many different swing styles, and there are many different putting styles. To me there is no difference between the long putter vs short putter and claw grip vs traditional grip, "modern" golf swing vs. reverse "C", etc. Different techniques and styles work for different people.

The onus should be on the ruling bodies to show why something should not be allowed rather that on why something should be permitted. So far they haven't made a very good case for disallowing it.

[Kilroy]

You look fabulous in that hat Pablo!

[nokids]

You look fabulous in that hat Pablo!

Wish i had a nickname tho... El pescador?

[habsfan]

Ive played with a few people that use the long putter and have never thought to myself that they had an advantage on me, dont understand why any amateur would actually care about this.

[gbower]

If you "Ban the Belly" there will be a lot of people, myself included, cutting out the beer and hitting the diet machines. I don't think the governing bodies, who probably all aren't flat bellies, will go along with that rule change. I think banning Pablo's bucket would be more appropriate.

[HoganWoods]

We should take a poll to see how many of us think Adam Scott or Ernie Els would of won their last major without an anchored putter. These 2 guys couldn't putt to a basketball from 10 feet away under pressure. (With a normal putter) What a great masters finish though, you had to feel good for Scott.

[jeffc]

We should take a poll to see how many of us think Adam Scott or Ernie Els would of won their last major without an anchored putter. These 2 guys couldn't putt to a basketball from 10 feet away under pressure. (With a normal putter) What a great masters finish though, you had to feel good for Scott.

I doubt either would have won their last major if they couldn't use an anchored stroke.

[mpare]

I doubt very much that any of the major winners in the last decades would have won, if you had forced them to change their usual equipment or the way in which they used that equipment.

I doubt either would have won their last major if they couldn't use an anchored stroke.

[fundonny]

But there is no controversy with the ' normal ' equipment.

[jlaidley]

Everyone is free to use it no matter how ridiculous it looks. So there is no competitive advantage.

If "no competitive advantage" was the standard then there would be no reason to have any restriction on equipment or use of equipment. But it is not the standard. Equipment and use of it is restricted as per 14-3.

I could not find any rule that prohibits anchoring ANY club (if that's what you wished to do), or dictates that a club must "swing freely".

I think 14-3 addresses it in some regard.

First part says you can't use equipment in an unusual way that MIGHT assist him in making a stroke. To me that covers anchoring to a tee (remember it says MIGHT assist).

But the second part says it it OK if it is used in a traditionally accepted manner and there is certainly an argument to say that anchoring has been used long enough to have been "traditionally accepted". It certainly has been accepted for quite a while.

Bolding was added by me.

__________________________________________________ ___
14-3. Artificial Devices, Unusual Equipment And Unusual Use Of Equipment

The USGA reserves the right, at any time, to change the Rules relating to artificial devices, unusual equipment and the unusual use of equipment, and to make or change the interpretations relating to these Rules.

A player in doubt as to whether use of an item would constitute a breach of Rule 14-3 should consult the USGA.

A manufacturer should submit to the USGA a sample of an item to be manufactured for a ruling as to whether its use during a stipulated round would cause a player to be in breach of Rule 14-3. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for reference purposes. If a manufacturer fails to submit a sample or, having submitted a sample, fails to await a ruling before manufacturing and/or marketing the item, the manufacturer assumes the risk of a ruling that use of the item would be contrary to the Rules.

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment (see Appendix IV for detailed specifications and interpretations), or use any equipment in an unusual manner:

a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or

b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play; or

c. That might assist him in gripping the club, except that:

(i) gloves may be worn provided that they are plain gloves;

(ii) resin, powder and drying or moisturizing agents may be used; and

(iii) a towel or handkerchief may be wrapped around the grip.

Exceptions:

1. A player is not in breach of this Rule if (a) the equipment or device is designed for or has the effect of alleviating a medical condition, (b) the player has a legitimate medical reason to use the equipment or device, and (c) the Committee is satisfied that its use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players.

2. A player is not in breach of this Rule if he uses equipment in a traditionally accepted manner.
__________________________________________________ ___

There are sooooooo many red herring arguments on this issue, but the more I think about it (too much already), 14-3 is the whole issue in a nutshell:

• An anchored stroke can reasonably be ruled to violate 14-3 (a) and if they had ruled that when anchoring started I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash.
• However because anchoring has been used for an extended period of time Exception 2 can reasonably ruled to allow anchoring.

It appears that the above rule has been in place since 2008 the USGA and R&A so they missed a golden opportunity to ban anchoring then. They appear to be now going "oops" and want to change their mind. The pros and cons of that can be boiled down to:

PRO: If you made a mistake and can correct it going forward you should correct it going forward.
CON: It is unfair to require people to change from what has been accepted for an extended period.

Opinions will vary on whether the PRO or CON argument should "win". I don't think there is any fact or magic point that makes either stronger. Really no right or wrong answer. You just have to weigh them, pick one and accept that everyone won't agree.

[spackler]

This 46 year old article could've been written yesterday.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...ne/MAG1079906/

[jlaidley]

This 46 year old article could've been written yesterday.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...ne/MAG1079906/

Great find. Thanks for sharing it. Big difference is that the USGA and F&A acted reasonably quickly that time.

[mpare]

It is a great historical find. It reinforces my belief that the impetus for this most recent ban really is aesthetics. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Great find. Thanks for sharing it. Big difference is that the USGA and F&A acted reasonably quickly that time.

[BC MIST]

It is a great historical find. It reinforces my belief that the impetus for this most recent ban really is aesthetics.

Interesting. If aesthetics were really an important consideration by the RB's, why would they ban this? http://chicagogolfguy.files.wordpres.../01/photo3.jpg

And yet allow this aesthetically displeasing piece of junk? http://taylormadegolf.ca/TaylorMade/...ormade-putters

[Wknd_Warrior]

**rules stuff**

I totally buy this. Belly putting is about as traditional as the two ball putter is plain in shape.

[mpare]

Lyle, I'm dumbfounded when it comes to why one of these uglies is in and the other is out. My brother used to play with a putter that looked like the business end of a ball peen hammer. Now that thing was disturbing in appearance, and yet it had received the seal of approval. Quite frankly I think it was approved out of a sense of mischief. If you could actually strike the ball with it, you deserved all the credit in the world. It's striking surface was a little bigger than a dime!

Interesting. If aesthetics were really an important consideration by the RB's, why would they ban this? http://chicagogolfguy.files.wordpres.../01/photo3.jpg

And yet allow this aesthetically displeasing piece of junk? http://taylormadegolf.ca/TaylorMade/...ormade-putters

[BC MIST]

Lyle, I'm dumbfounded when it comes to why one of these uglies is in and the other is out. My brother used to play with a putter that looked like the business end of a ball peen hammer. Now that thing was disturbing in appearance, and yet it had received the seal of approval. Quite frankly I think it was approved out of a sense of mischief. If you could actually strike the ball with it, you deserved all the credit in the world. It's striking surface was a little bigger than a dime!

Do you mean that looks like this one? http://www.xfactordirect.com/putter.htm

I still have and once used Dave Pelz Three Ball Putter and when contact was made off the "sweet spot" the roll of the ball was as pure as any modern day putter. However, any contact away from centre would cause the ball to roll significantly off line because of the extremely low MOI.

[mpare]

That appears to be my brothers hammer.

Do you mean that looks like this one? http://www.xfactordirect.com/putter.htm

I still have and once used Dave Pelz Three Ball Putter and when contact was made off the "sweet spot" the roll of the ball was as pure as any modern day putter. However, any contact away from centre would cause the ball to roll significantly off line because of the extremely low MOI.

[AAA]

http://www.xfactordirect.com/putter.htm

This club does not conform.

When the clubhead is in its normal address position, the dimensions of the head must be such that:
the distance from the heel to the toe is greater than the distance from the face to the back;

[mpare]

Ah, the sinner. I could have claimed every hole.

http://www.xfactordirect.com/putter.htm

This club does not conform.

When the clubhead is in its normal address position, the dimensions of the head must be such that:
the distance from the heel to the toe is greater than the distance from the face to the back;