Tiger's drop on 15

[Adska]

Hopefully Lyle or Gerry can chime in on this. I saw a tweet from my buddy who was questioning Tiger's drop on 15. At first, I thought it was totally fine because the pond is marked yellow - he can go back as far as he wants keeping the point of entry and flag in line right?

But the ball crossed on the other side, well left of the flag. Wouldn't that line technically then be in the right trees? In his interview, Tiger said he went back 2 yards farther on the second shot. If this was indeed the case, that drop isn't as close as possible to the original spot.

Was this an illegal drop?

[Adska]

Never mind... Looks like he is only about 2 feet away from his first divot when watching the replays.

[spackler]

I wonder if Tiger wasn't just trying to embellish the precision of his wedge game in the interview? In the replay, the caddy never moves from the spot he hit the first shot from, and Tiger does go over to the left side to check out his options there before returning. I'm assuming he then proceeded correctly under 26-1a as you say, but I can't tell exactly how close he is to the divot, and I also don't know how close 'as nearly as possible' has to be either. Should it be dropped in the divot?

If he did go 2 yards further back, then he has a big problem. Especially with the scorecard signed.

[mpare]

And assuming that he elected to drop on a point along the prolongation of a line drawn between the pin and the point where his ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, then that drop appears to have been illegal as well. I say this because the video appears to show that point to have been much more to the left.

[AAA]

The original divot hole seemed to be less than a metre away. Did he drop near it and the ball roll away?

[mpare]

In his press conference, I believe that Tiger said that he dropped about two yards behind the spot from which he had hit his previous shot.

The original divot hole seemed to be less than a metre away. Did he drop near it and the ball roll away?

[nokids]

The original divot hole seemed to be less than a metre away. Did he drop near it and the ball roll away?

Then Tiger is fine.

It's his interview that makes it look like he broke a rule bc he said he dropped the ball 2 yards further than his first shot.

[mpare]

Why does this make it "fine"? What am I missing?

Then Tiger is fine.

It's his interview that makes it look like he broke a rule bc he said he dropped the ball 2 yards further than his first shot.

[nokids]

The original divot hole was less than a meter away. The rules say to drop as close as possible. So he's fine. Unless you see a penalty there that I don't see.

[mpare]

Here's my problem. If Tiger chose to drop the ball 2 yards behind the point from which his previous shot was struck, how could that be said to be "as close as possible" to that spot? I'm sure that the ruling bodies would give the player a bit of latitude with respect to what constitutes "as close as possible", but even under a generous interpretation, I cannot image that dropping 6 feet from the spot would be found to be in accord with the rule's requirements.

The original divot hole was less than a meter away. The rules say to drop as close as possible. So he's fine. Unless you see a penalty there that I don't see.

[gbower]

One of the options with his drop is that he can keep the point that the ball last crossed the water hazard and the flagstick in line and go back as far as you want. He did that and went a bit further back than where he hit the original stroke. He could also have dropped as nearly as possible to where he hit the previous stroke. Another option he had on that hole was to go to the drop zone and play from there. He was perfectly fine where he dropped!!!!!

[mpare]

But, Gerry, if he is invoking Rule 26-1(b) to go back as far as he would like to rehit, he should have dropped on a line drawn between the hole and the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. Given that Tiger's ball bounced left off the pin and into the hazard, the line along which he could have dropped under this option would, of necessity, have been left of where he actually dropped. If that is so, then how could his drop have been legal?

As for the option under 26-1(a), it required that he drop "as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played ..." Since Tiger himself admits that he dropped 2 yards behind the spot where he had hit his previous shot, he could not have complied with this rule. Therefore, he does not appear to have complied with this rule either.

This is what Tiger had to say at the press conference about his actions on 15:

"I went down to the drop area, that wasn't going to be a good spot, because obviously it's into the grain and it was a little bit wet," said Woods.

"I went back to where I played it from, but I went two yards further back and I took, tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit. I felt that that was going to be the right decision to take off four right there. And I did, it worked out perfectly." (underlining added)


What am I missing?

One of the options with his drop is that he can keep the point that the ball last crossed the water hazard and the flagstick in line and go back as far as you want. He did that and went a bit further back than where he hit the original stroke. He could also have dropped as nearly as possible to where he hit the previous stroke. Another option he had on that hole was to go to the drop zone and play from there. He was perfectly fine where he dropped!!!!!

[gbower]

From camera angles on tv I can't tell if the drop was in the wrong place. There's a rules official on that hole near the green for any rulings like that and I'm sure if he was going to drop in a wrong place that he would have had him correct it.

[nokids]

Here's my problem. If Tiger chose to drop the ball 2 yards behind the point from which his previous shot was struck

Tiger said in his interview that's what he did. but did he really?

Like Gerry said, a rules official is following each group.

[mpare]

This is an interesting issue.

Tiger didn't seek out the assistance of an official. Are you suggesting that a rules official should have sought Tiger out at the time and told him that he took a wrong drop? If one official was to do that, wouldn't that impose similar obligations on all rules officials to ensure that all players are treated similarly? Even if that were the official should have warned him, what evidence is there that any official noticed the infraction at the time? Perhaps they missed it just as Tiger appears to have done.

From camera angles on tv I can't tell if the drop was in the wrong place. There's a rules official on that hole near the green for any rulings like that and I'm sure if he was going to drop in a wrong place that he would have had him correct it.

[mpare]

If Tiger said that's what he did, then I think he should be taken at his word. With respect to the rules officials, their silence at 15 cannot be a guarantee that no infraction occurred.

He said in his interview that's what he did. but did he really?

Like Gerry said, a rules official is following each group.

[gbower]

A rules official doesn't follow each group at the Masters as they are stationed in different areas on each hole. I saw the official come out on the 11th hole (I think it was 11) a few times when players went into the hazard. He was right up on the left corner short of the green. I know that if they see something being done wrong they will act on it. I'm sure they're watching the move of every player.

[nokids]

If Tiger said that's what he did, then I think he should be taken at his word. With respect to the rules officials, their silence at 15 cannot be a guarantee that no infraction occurred.

But the video says otherwise. See post #2 and #5 here

[mpare]

Are you saying that the official's presence guarantees that nothing wrong happened? If that is so, then - subject to what we are sure to hear later this morning - I beg to differ. The video suggests to me that Tiger's drop was not in compliance with the rules.

Just to be clear, lest anyone think I am a Tiger hater, I am not. But the rules are the rules, and they should be applied to anyone and everyone. Yesterday they applied to Guam. Years before they were applied to DeVizenzo.

A rules official doesn't follow each group at the Masters as they are stationed in different areas on each hole. I saw the official come out on the 11th hole (I think it was 11) a few times when players went into the hazard. He was right up on the left corner short of the green. I know that if they see something being done wrong they will act on it. I'm sure they're watching the move of every player.

[gbower]

I just switched on Morning Drive and they're discussing Tiger's drop.

[AAA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sN-Q8eEajgQ

Watch for the bounce and roll bacl

[nokids]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sN-Q8eEajgQ

Watch for the bounce and roll bacl

2 feet from first divot. He's fine

[AAA]

Hit 1' roll another 1' (IMO)

[Wilster]

Hit 1' roll another 1' (IMO)

From that clip are you saying that his drop was 1ft away and it rolled 1ft ???

I think the drop was within 2-3ft of his original divot from the youtube clip and if that's deemed "as close as possible" then he's ok ... I guess

After watching the clip a few times , the ball actually looks like it moves fractionally forward , the illusion you see is the shadow moving backwards .... IMO

After all this , I hope they don't DQ Tiger

[nexxo]

2 yards (6 feet) it's certainly not at all as near as possible, seems pretty clear unless the belief is that he lied in is press conference to make his shot look that much better.

[shaner85]

Tiger played his drop from a line straight back from the spot that he hit his original shot from but if the rule is a straight line from where it last rolled in to the hazard then should it not have been ocer the the left somewhere of the pin?

Gerry you are going to be mad at me that I cant remember this because we talked about it at the rules mini clinic last May...

What is the right thing here? What Tiger did or did he make a mistake?

[nokids]

Augusta has released a statement on the issue. "Mr. Tiger Woods took an incorrect drop so there's only one outcome. Guan Tianlang will have to be disqualified." @ANGC 1 hour ago

[EDSGOLF]

Masters is still reviewing this drop, wow! The Masters will never disqualify him, too much room for interpretation in the rule.

[BC MIST]

One of Tiger's options is to drop a ball on a line from the flagstick through where the original ball last crossed the hazard margin, as you have described. He did not choose that option. Instead, he chose the stroke and distance option to get a better angle to the hole and to get more spin on the ball from a farther distance. He had another option, that is, to play a ball from a drop zone, but I am unsure if there was one on that hole.

[gbower]

After looking at the replay of the stroke and drop I don't think we will see Tiger playing this afternoon. Under rule 26-1b he is definitely not in a straight line from where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard and the flagstick. Under rule 26-1a his drop was not as near as possible to where the previous stroke was made from. He will be DQ'd for signing an incorrect score card.