Golfers We Can Do Without

[natgolfer]

After playing golf for over 40 years and playing with hundreds(thousand?) of golfers, I have decided that we can do without golfers who:

(1) Cheat. I can forgive golfers who are ignorant of the rules, but not those who know better. In tournaments, I have occasionally called some golfers on their cheating attempts, resulting in being shunned, ignored and being physically threatened, all because THEY cheated.

(2) Play slowly. You know the ones-three practice swings, check putts from all angles, walk down the fairway with his buddies instead of to his ball, talks when it’s his turn to play, never ready on the tee when he is up, etc,.

(3) Do not repair ball marks or replace divots. Lazy, inconsiderate and selfish.

(4) Talk when another is playing his shot, or, moves in his backswing, or, stands on the opposite side of the hole along the line of his putt, or, stands directly behind the golfer on the line of his putt.

(5) Use gamesmanship to try to cause a golfer to hit a poor shot. Comments like, “Gee, you have a beautiful pause at the top of your backswing,” or those who compliment a bad shot and say nothing when a good shot is hit.

(6) Don’t let faster players through. The other day at Greensmere there was a foursome of men in front of us, we were a twosome, and they had 3 holes open in front of them. Would they wave us through? Yeah, right!!!

(7) Give you a shot by shot summary of their whole round. “ On 1 I hit a drive to the left centre, and cut a 5 iron to 15 feet. Par. On two I hit a low screamer just past the bunker and knocked a wedge to 10 feet, drilled the putt 6 feet past and missed coming back. On 3 ….” “Hands up class, those of you who are interested in this kind of golf talk?” If you can’t describe your round in 25 words or less, don’t say anything. Example: “ How did you play?” “Hit it great. Putting was the pits. 75”. There. Eight words. Why do we need more?

(8) Curses, swears, whines and/or throws clubs when they miss a shot. How much fun is it to play with this kind of person? How long would this behaviour last if the other three guys walked off the course, or all of them told the offender to grow up? Admittedly, I was once guilty of this kind of this two year old behaviour, but, I think I have grown up. How much fun is it to play with a constant whiner/complainer?

(9) Don’t sign up for tournaments by the posted deadline and then * and complain about how they are being unfairly treated. Try looking after the entries for the OVGA tournaments or club tournaments at your club and you will see what I mean.

(10) Ask you, “What am I doing wrong?” when they miss a shot. You make a suggestion and they then ignore it, or they make one swing trying what you suggest and don’t hit a perfect shot and then say, “What else should I try.” Or better still, you give a suggestion to someone and they ignore it and then they go to a pro who suggests exactly what you said and they then rave about what a wonderful teacher this pro is.

On the other hand, isn't golf great when you can play with golfers who know how to play with other people?

[LongHitta]

What you have left is pretty much the perfect human being. Every golfer i've ever known was guilty of atleast one of those things at one time or another, including myself. I highly highly doubt you haven't either. I think your standards are little too high for the public golfing community. This is just my opinion

[nice_lag]

Although I agree that I could do without some of the people you've mentionned, I guess I won't play with myself for fear that the "Come on Seb, you know better" or the "Sh$%" following a bad slice will frustrate my other self... I'm sorry but everyone, including the pros, get frustrated by a shot when they know they can pull it off... I've seen and heard swear words, club banging, ball throwing etc... who's the perfect golfer?? Those who have never sinned, throw the first rock....

That was my 2 cents on the subject and I mean no disrespect to anyone at all.

[LBH]

Yikes! There isn't that many golfers you could play with...

Even some pros (Tiger Woods and John Daly to name a few) haven't lived up to those standards at least once during their career. Remember Tiger at the US Open cursing when he drove into the ocean on 18 a couple of years ago?

Does this mean we could live without those guys on tour? What would the interest on golf be without the stellar play of Tiger (not to say dominance) and the long bombs by John? I know my interest in golf certainly wouldn't be the same...

But, on the other hand. I wouldn't want to be paired up with Sergio in a major and who would? How many times does a golfer has to regrip his club to feel comfortable? Same goes for slow-paced Jesper Parnevik...

My 2 cents

[fireice]

who's the perfect golfer?? Those who have never sinned, throw the first rock....

I can agree with nice_lag comments especially the above one.

When I first started to golf I'm sure every round I played I was in violation of many of the 10 things natgolfer mentioned. Luckly I learned as I went, had good playing partners, and tried to become more knowledgeable. Although to this day I still make some "errors". Oh well I guess I'm not perfect, but man I have fun.

[el tigre]

Well, I guess what we're really talking about here is proper golf etiquette, so I have to agree with about 80% of natgolfer's comments. The only points I have problems with are:

10) When you give advice on anything, people are always free to follow it or ignore it - even when they asked for it. I understand how it can be frustrating, but it is still their choice. After all, you can get BAD advice just as easily as good advice. I don't take it as a slight when people ask for help and then ignore it - its their loss, not mine.

8) Throwing or wildly swinging clubs is NEVER acceptable. But as others on this forum have said, everyone curses and swears AT THEMSELVES from time to time. I wouldn't want to go through 18 holes of constantly hearing it, but in moderation ...

4) Talking or moving when someone is swinging is poor etiquette because it interferes with their concentration. I don't understand how standing without moving on the opposite side of the green or 10 feet behind someone when they are putting could possibly interfere with anything. It certainly doesn't bother me. I just think that when you are closer to the pin, then you are entitled to watch everyone else putt before you. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I truly don't see what the issue is here.

That being said, I totally agree with everything else natgolfer mentioned. However, I will tolerate some of the other behavior from beginners - simply because they may be ignorant of the rules of proper golf etiquette. That is the ONE area where advice SHOULD be followed - whether it was asked for or not.

[Kilroy]

I don't understand how standing without moving on the opposite side of the green or 10 feet behind someone when they are putting could possibly interfere with anything. It certainly doesn't bother me.

It is very distracting. If it does not distract you that is great, but it bothers most people.

Not everyone is disturbred by breaches in etiquette. Some people eat like pigs. If you can tolerate it, that is fine. It is still a breach of etiquitte, so try not to do these things as best you can.

Even those with the best intentions (Tiger) will cuss or slam a club from time to time. I would certainly let that go. Most people will do most of these things occasionaly; again, no big deal. Someone who habitually breaks a number of these guidelines regularly should be spoken to nicely and advised on proper behavior. If the pattern continues...

[NoBack]

I'm not so sure you would have ANYBODY left to play with.
I'm also sure EVERY single one of us is guilty of doing one of those things you listed. I think you are looking to have golf courses set up for a whole bunch of singles only.

I would love to see a game where nothing ever happens but good golf shots and perfect conditions and perfect playing partners.


Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oops there goes my alarm....... gotta wake up from this dream.

[natgolfer]

if we become aware that some of the things that we do are a distraction to others, making it more difficult for them to play their best, then, as a decent human being, would you not want to try to improve your behaviour on the course to make the game more enjoyable for all?

My etiquette is not perfect, but, I strive to make it that way, because I don't want to bother anyone that I play with. I still get PO'ed at myself, but I also know that if I was to let loose, not only would I upset my playing opponents, but I would make it impossible to come back from a poor hole or series of holes. Saturday I played very poorly on the front nine, however, I kept my cool, and was able to make 3 birdies and an eagle on the back. By throwing a tantrum on the front, I would have been worse on the back. Guaranteed!!!

BTW: Tiger Woods behaviour, where he is caught on camera swearing up a storm is deplorable and he should have been heavily fined. He may be a good player and your hero, but he is definitely not mine! Fred Couples is another foul mouthed player who needs a lesson in conduct on the golf course, for I have heard the "F" word from him on more than one occasion.

el tigre : Forgive my bluntness, but after reading your comments below, #4, you reveal yourself as the kind of golfer that needs to learn how to play with other golfers. May I respectfully suggest that you obtain a rule book, read the first section on golf etiquette, the very first sentence, and then you will know where you should be when someone else is about to play a shot. To say,I just think that when you are closer to the pin, then you are entitled to watch everyone else putt before you, is the epitome of selfish inconsideration, and if you played with any of our Saturday eightsome, you would quickly be told to move. Sure, watch the putt, but from an appropriate distance. I doubt, however, if you will get the point.

I agree that it takes time to learn how to conduct yourself properly on the golf course and if you only play with your buddies with like mindsets, then this learning is stunted. Having had the benefit of playing in hundreds of tournaments over the years and having made mistakes, I have learned a lot. But I have also learned because not only do I always strive to be a better player, I also strive to be a better golfer, if you understand what I mean.

Two years ago I became old enough to play seniors golf(55 and over) and participated in the OVGA seniors tournaments and in the Canadian Seniors Championship. These tournaments have been the most enjoyable ever for me, because I get to play with golfers who are not only excellent players, but who are genuinely happy when you play well, sympathetic when you don't, and they never, never, get in your way. Guys like Moe Proulx, Brain Darling, Peter Mayo, Grahan Zelmer, Willie Walker, Glen Seely,... true gentlemen of the game.

[Chieflongtee]

Staying focused.
Distractions may be unpleasant but one fact remains. They will always be there and and it is best to learn to ignore them instead of fussing about them. Hockey,basketball, soccer,baseball players play in constant noise level and don't even know it is there anymore. What's worse than standing on the free throw line in basketball? So I guess it is best to prepare for them because they will never go away.

[el tigre]

natgolfer:

I have a rulebook, and I am well aware of the rules of etiquette.

To my knowledge, I have never played a round of golf with you, so I don't think I need to listen to a self-rightous sermon from you about what kind of golfer I am! Nor do I think that this forum is an appropriate venue for personal insults against someone you have never even met.

The person who is farthest from the pin putts first, and other golfers are permitted to watch him putt. Those are the rules of golf, whether you like them or not. Trying to gauge the speed and break on the green by watching other putts is hardly "selfish inconsideration", it is part of the game.

The rules of golf say nothing about standing on the opposite side of the green, only about standing directly behind or too close so as to interfere with their swing. Personally, I don't feel that 10 feet behind should be distracting, but if someone else did - all they would have to do is ask.

I play golf to have FUN, and so do the vast majority of people I've had the privelege to golf with. If you can't have fun playing golf with someone because they don't meet your lofty standards of golfing ability or etiquette, then I think you might be taking this GAME a little too seriously.

[natgolfer]

I have a rulebook, and I am well aware of the rules of etiquette.

The rules of golf say nothing about standing on the opposite side of the green, only about standing directly behind or too close so as to interfere with their swing. Personally, I don't feel that 10 feet behind should be distracting, but if someone else did - all they would have to do is ask

In writing the above you state that you know the rules of golf etiquette, while at the same time you also admit that you choose not to follow them, until someone asks you to move. Is that not being somewhat arrogant?

If because I play by the rules of the game and try to be courteous to my fellow players, I am "self righteous," then I plead guilty. The game should be more fun for them because they know I will not deliberately distract them. You may think my etiquette standards are "lofty," but they are NOT. They are merely the accepted norm and it has nothing to do with "golfing ability." I have played with 30 handicappers who are courteous and 0 handicaped, seasoned veterans, who are rude.

I have learned to play when some are discourteous because that is reality, but it still does not make poor behaviour OK.

If ten thousand people were screaming I would hear nothing because the noise is constant, as Andre says below, however, hearing you start talking when you are "10 feet behind" me, is deafening.

Why you would be insulted by my comments when you have admitted that you knowingly breach expected golf etiquette?

I agree that you would probably not enjoy playing with someone like me who behaves appropriately on the course, but then I suppose that it is unlikely that I would enjoy playing with you because of your admitted behaviour.

Working on your golf game and improving is good for you but working on your etiquette is good for eveyone else. Opps, I'm sermonizing again.

[upanddown]

I dont think the intent of the thread is to say everyone must be perfect - nobody is. But each point is a breach of etiquette - and we can all strive to avoid these.

[donh]

Good day all,

Playing by the rules and the etiquette guidelines for golf are lofty goals. We as ambassadors of the game should strive to promote awareness of the rules and etiquette but not to the detriment of the game.

You'll end up playing by yourself if you're not up to acceptance of your playing partner's bad habbit of talking during someone's backswing.

At that point, it's nice to point out to them that it's ok to discuss what's going on, just not while someone is playing a shot.

Golf is a growing game -- not all of the newbies are aware of the rules.

My peeve: is the ball mark repairs -- explain that 15 seconds of fixing the mark can save 2 weeks of re-growth (worked extremely well at our course. The super showed us juniors the difference when the greensmower hits a properly fixed ball-mark and one that was not fixed.)

Oh. One off-topic comment:
Go Sens Go!! 8 down & 8 to go!

[el tigre]

natgolfer:

What is with all of these personal attacks? I've never met you - you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how I play golf. This forum should be for expressing your opinions ON GOLF. If you want to express your opinions ON ME, you should do it privately.

I don't talk when someone else is playing a shot, nor did I say that I actually stand directly behind someone when they are putting. I was merely pointing out that I don't see why standing behind someone when they are putting should be a "breach of etiquette" if you are standing far enough away from them that it would not be a distraction. How far is far enough? As far away as they want.

[Kilroy]

Ok boys calm down. Personal attacks are not permitted here. Take it down a notch please. Discuss the issues without the insults.

[mr shank]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by natgolfer
[B]

(7) Give you a shot by shot summary of their whole round. “ On 1 I hit a drive to the left centre, and cut a 5 iron to 15 feet. Par. On two I hit a low screamer just past the bunker and knocked a wedge to 10 feet, drilled the putt 6 feet past and missed coming back. On 3 ….” “Hands up class, those of you who are interested in this kind of golf talk?” If you can’t describe your round in 25 words or less, don’t say anything. Example: “ How did you play?” “Hit it great. Putting was the pits. 75”. There. Eight words. Why do we need more?

- Eight words? I don't know about everyone else but for myself & my buddies, sitting around the 19th hole chatting about lips-outs, fatty's, and all the shots that "could have been" is pretty much mandatory after each round. It doesn't bother me all that much if someone wants to detail their round shot by shot, I'm just glad to be at the golf course with my buddies.

natgolfer - you make some good points, but by listing that many it can come across as somewhat intolerant, when everyone know golfers are the most tolerant people on the planet.

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by el tigre


4) Talking or moving when someone is swinging is poor etiquette because it interferes with their concentration. I don't understand how standing without moving on the opposite side of the green or 10 feet behind someone when they are putting could possibly interfere with anything. It certainly doesn't bother me. I just think that when you are closer to the pin, then you are entitled to watch everyone else putt before you. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I truly don't see what the issue is here.

That being said, I totally agree with everything else natgolfer mentioned.

I fail to see anything here that would get anyone's shorts in a twist. Natgolfer, you really teed off on a guy who said" I totally agree with" what you said except for one point that as far as I'm concerned, isn't that big a transgression, particularly the way El Tigre describes it.

I suggest lightening up or more careful reading is in order here - unless the whole thing was just a set up for dropping names/events on us.

[Gil1968]

My wife and I are playing Les Vieux Moulins on Sunday....I am a 8 and my wife about a 24...we are playing behind a group of 4 men, we were just finishing on the range when I watched these guys tee off....

Two things wich led to a pretty frustrating day.....

These guys teed up on the Blue ( back ) tees....3 out of 4 were OB and one topped it 100 yds....

We waited after every shot, not bad at first, it was a beautfiul day....we get to a short par 3 # 7 I believe...the four of them in the bush, I very politely ask if we could play thru seeing we are just 2 players....

Here is what was yelled back to me " F--k Off ! the game of golf is played in foursomes not twosomes you guys don't even matter out here so shut the F--k up "

Safe to say I sort of lost it !! we grabbed our bags and walked right past them to the next tee as we walkked past them I very nicely said to the person who had yelled back.." hope you have a nice day sir...by the way you might enjoy the game more playing from the right tee boxes "

Did you folks think I handled this properly ?

Give me your thoughts ??

I think people should really pay attention to the tee boxes, people playing the wrong tees slows play even more.

Starters should ask handicaps or average scores and direct people to the appropiate tee boxes. This would make the game much more enjoyable for all involved !!

Your thoughts folks ???

Cheers,

New Guy In Town

[mr shank]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gil1968
[B]
Did you folks think I handled this properly ?

Give me your thoughts ??

- new guy - trust me, idiots like that thankfully are few & far between. They should be booted off the course for behavoir like that.

Did you handle this properly? - you kept your cool much better than I would have.

[JimmyW]

Comment from the peanut gallery here:

Have the course number in your cell phone. Surprising how quickly the Marshall gets to inconsiderate golfers on the course. Worked well at Cloverdale. It was either phone or do something more personal. Next hole they weren't there

JW

[Gil1968]

Great idea !! I always have my cell phone on my too !!!

[Gary Hill]

FYI - Groups of two have priority over groups of four.

In the absence of special rules, two-ball matches should have precedence over and be entitled to pass any three- or four-ball match, which should invite them through.

[fireice]

I have begun programming my cell with golf course numbers, great idea JimmyW.

[Chieflongtee]

Originally posted by Gil1968
Great idea !! I always have my cell phone on my too !!!

In manner mode hopefully.

[NoBack]

Just a thought guys.............. check your scorecard for the telephone numbers!!!!

[fireice]

Vibrating mode of course.

[stanley]

you handled it very well, I don't know if I would have been able to keep my cool either.

Slow foursomes (or foursomes playing from the wrong tees) should always let the twosome go ahead.

Idiots.

[Chieflongtee]

The unrespectful golfer is usually the same guy that will cut in front of you while waiting in line at the supermarket, on the 417 and so on.
At the risk of repeating myself ideal conditions do not exist. You can approach these conditions by joining an exclusive private club but then you will have to deal with other issues such as keeping up with the neighbor. You can also be the first one to tee off at the crack of dawn but then you will have to deal with yahoo mountain dew.
As far as handling matters yourself I would advise against it as I once witnessed one golfer wacking another upside the head with a club and believe me this was not a pretty sight. Besides who would like to be charged in a criminal court of law for assaulting another golfer?

[natgolfer]

You admit that you do not talk when someone else is playing a shot and that you would move if where you were standing bothered someone. That's commendable and the norm.

The intent of my 2nd and 3rd posts was not to insult you, but to criticize a behaviour on the putting green that you seem to feel is acceptable. I don't understand how standing without moving on the opposite side of the green or 10 feet behind someone when they are putting could possibly interfere with anything. It certainly doesn't bother me. I just think that when you are closer to the pin, then you are entitled to watch everyone else putt before you.

If a golfer has a 40' putt and you are standing directly on his intended line extended, "on the opposite side of the green," and when he looks up at the hole, he can see you, then you should not be standing there. Whether it bothers him or not is irrelevant. It's just poor etiquette. Assuming you are right handed, if you standing on his line, a few feet to his right, then this too, is poor etiquette. In other words, when someone is putting, you should not be standing where they can see you. This is what is meant when the rule book states that, "No one should...stand...directly behind the ball or the hole when the player is addressing the ball or playing a stroke." Behind" in this case means standing along the extended line of the putt,

If you are literally standing 10 feet behind the golfer, that's fine, because you are out of sight. When I play with friends, I don't care where they stand, as long as I know that they are NOT going to move. However, when I play in tournaments, with people that I don't know, I want them to stand where I cannot see them. The truth is that I rarely have to make a request move because they just stand out of sight anyway.

When you watch Tour golfers on television putting, where do their playing partners stand? Generally, as far away as possible, and never in their line, or line extended. Never. What they do, IMO, is what we should all do as a courtesy to our playing partners.