Too much information?

[nokids]

Why don't golf instructors tell you everything that's wrong with your swing on the first lesson? Every time I see a teacher they will fix a thing here or there. Ie: alignment issue, grip issue, etc... But years later I learn stuff about the golf swing on my own and look at my swing on video and there are some obvious faults that I wish a golf instructor would have mentioned to me a long time ago.

For example: I went to a teacher because I was slicing my irons. The teacher fixed my alignment and grip, and I was happy that my balls were going straighter....

A few years later I see myself on video and I'm hitting outside in, I'm swaying my hips, I"m casting on my downswing, I've got no wrist hinge, my left leg slides out, I'm hitting the ball with my arms and upper body and not generating power from the ground up...... ok i'll stop here

Do golf instructors fear overloading their students with too much information?

Obviously most people don't spend a lot of time practicing on their golf swings, they want a quick fix and go play a round of golf. But I would rather start from scratch and be a 30 handicap learning how to make a fundamentally sound golf swing than having all these swing flaws which a) could get me to a single digit handicap; but b) will hold me back from achieving my true potential.

Just give me the truth Doc, I can handle the truth!

[Kilroy]

One lesson won't fix much. It's a process and it starts with the fundamentals, grip, stance etc.
Would it be better if in one session he gave you a laundry list of things to fix? Fix one then the next, but you have to go back regularly and actually solve each issue in progression. Most people bail on lessons when they feel thy have seen some improvements and return when the demons return. and so on...

[nokids]

One lesson won't fix much. It's a process and it starts with the fundamentals, grip, stance etc.
Would it be better if in one session he gave you a laundry list of things to fix?

Yes, but he should lay out a long term teaching plan with that laundry list, and definitely prioritize this list so that major fundamentals are worked on first. The teacher would get more long term business from students who stick to this plan and the students would see the benefits of continued instruction rather than going to see a pro when the game goes to poop.

[Break68]

nokids, I don't think most golfers are as motivated as you are to get better.
Most golfers want a quick fix.

[nokids]

nokids, I don't think most golfers are as motivated as you are to get better.
Most golfers want a quick fix.

I agree with you. My next teacher is going to have to lay out a long term master plan before gettin my business. But if it's a good plan it will be good business for him!

[quinner]

If he was that motivated, he wouldn't have waited years to see himself on video again. Bad habits can creep into a golf swing in no time, as short as a couple of holes. Your bad habits now may not have been the root of your slicing issues a couple of years ago. What's the point of giving you a long term plan if you are going to go to one lesson and never come back. That long term plan is going to work only if you are working consistently on what they tell you and you go for checks often. What you think you are doing and feeling is often very different that what is actually going on.

[nokids]

If he was that motivated, he wouldn't have waited years to see himself on video again. Bad habits can creep into a golf swing in no time, as short as a couple of holes. Your bad habits now may not have been the root of your slicing issues a couple of years ago. What's the point of giving you a long term plan if you are going to go to one lesson and never come back. That long term plan is going to work only if you are working consistently on what they tell you and you go for checks often. What you think you are doing and feeling is often very different that what is actually going on.

If he was that motivated, he wouldn't have waited years to see himself on video again.
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I did see myself on video years ago but bc I didnt understand the fundamentals of the swing I could not learn anything from it.

Bad habits can creep into a golf swing in no time, as short as a couple of holes. Your bad habits now may not have been the root of your slicing issues a couple of years ago.
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I still have the videos and Im still making the same mistakes.


What's the point of giving you a long term plan if you are going to go to one lesson and never come back. That long term plan is going to work only if you are working consistently on what they tell you and you go for checks often.
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I didnt go back bc I started hitting the ball great after the lesson and believed I was good to go! If the pro says to me listen, you're doing great but we have to work on this and that, then phase 3, and phase 4 bc he sees other serious flaws; I would come back because I want to improve.

[bNeill]

To be honest, a lot of the time they probably don't know right away. It's not that difficult to get certified so there are large discrepancies between good teachers and bad teachers in the area.

[Golf41]

Business as usual.

As a customer If you dont know what you want (Requirement Specifications, features, KPIs); You will get what the service provider gives you.

Unfortunately Learning/Teaching Golf has lots of grey areas. Some of the teachers are looking for more $$ rather than having a plan built and executed based on the identified needs of the golfer.

If I am learning something I like to see the big picture first and the small pieces next, similar to lego building or puzzles with the pieces. If the teacher says "put this blue piece here" only for 100 $ / hour, It will not help. It did not help me.

And I keep slicing and hitting Dan. Foooore..

[quinner]

There's a reason why even the pros have teachers that they work with heavily. I am not trying to stick up for your initial teacher, but if he had stood there and told you everything wrong with your swing and how to fix it, you would probably be completely overwhelmed; not to mention where would you start? Like you said you started to hit the ball good and you were good to go...I would think that most students fit into two categories:

1. You get a lesson and think it's a quick fix because it works good at the start so you don't go back.

2. You hit the ball worst and aren't willing to put the time in to actually fix it. So you think that the teacher doesn't know what they are talking about. You either don't go back or you go and see another teacher.

If there is one thing I have learned from taking lessons is that, and I know it's cliche, changing things in the golf swing is a process. You need patience, time and dedication to make a change that's actually going to stick.

So to answer your initial question, I would think that teachers fear overloading the student. There's probably a fine line of keeping them coming back and giving the farm away on the first lesson.

[dbleber]

Were you clear with what you expected? If you ask a pro to help you stop slicing the ball, that can be achieved with a few adjustments. If you tell them that you want to rebuild your swing in order to have a technically "perfect' swing, that's very different. Lots of pros have serious faults in their swing but they get the club back to the ball really well. So just because your swing has lots of technical faults doesn't mean you can't be a good player. I think if you want to master the technical swing you need to be clear with the pro because it is much different than learning how to play good golf with your own swing.

[downhillslider]

My 10 yr old son is now in is 3rd year with Andreas Sanchez over at Danielle Nadon's winter facility, before that he did the summer camp program, two years in a row with Andreas as the instructor.Jake was a member at Kanata this past season via the Kevin Haime Junior Initiative program and played in 15 outside tournements. Jake saw Andreas 3 times during the season for tune ups and moral bousts.

My point is, Andreas has Jake's ear and Andreas knows Jake's personality and swing as well as I do, difference beeing, Andreas's messages penetrate whereas the same messages from dad get lost somewhere during delivery/reception. You also need that other set of eyes to oversee and periodically tweak an and refine. The truth is, depending on were you want to go with your game should probably dictate what you want and need from your instructor.


Jake has made tremendous progress and I now refrain from any attempt at fixing anything because it falls on death's ears. Everyone learns differently and at their own pace. I have come to the conclusion that the game of golf is so unique and dificult that I strongly believe, you either have it or you don't. Your brain is either wired for it or it isn't to play at a very high level. You will reach a certain level of proficientcy with proper equipment, lessons and practise but to get to next plateau in your quest to become better, the golfer with natural ability, atheletic prowess and proprer mind set will thrive. You can take all the lessons in the world, pratise until your hands bleed, give up your life as you know live to dedicate it to golf, but at the end of the day, if you brain can't process the information properly or you brain sends the information to the muscles required to execute a certain shot and the muscles don't respond for whatever reason, well ....

[Big Johnny69]

My 10 yr old son is now in is 3rd year with Andreas Sanchez over at Danielle Nadon's winter facility, before that he did the summer camp program, two years in a row with Andreas as the instructor.Jake was a member at Kanata this past season via the Kevin Haime Junior Initiative program and played in 15 outside tournements. Jake saw Andreas 3 times during the season for tune ups and moral bousts.

My point is, Andreas has Jake's ear and Andreas knows Jake's personality and swing as well as I do, difference beeing, Andreas's messages penetrate whereas the same messages from dad get lost somewhere during delivery/reception. You also need that other set of eyes to oversee and periodically tweak an and refine. The truth is, depending on were you want to go with your game should probably dictate what you want and need from your instructor.


Jake has made tremendous progress and I now refrain from any attempt at fixing anything because it falls on death's ears. Everyone learns differently and at their own pace. I have come to the conclusion that the game of golf is so unique and dificult that I strongly believe, you either have it or you don't. Your brain is either wired for it or it isn't to play at a very high level. You will reach a certain level of proficientcy with proper equipment, lessons and practise but to get to next plateau in your quest to become better, the golfer with natural ability, atheletic prowess and proprer mind set will thrive. You can take all the lessons in the world, pratise until your hands bleed, give up your life as you know live to dedicate it to golf, but at the end of the day, if you brain can't process the information properly or you brain sends the information to the muscles required to execute a certain shot and the muscles don't respond for whatever reason, well ....

For someone who hates typing, that was a very lengthy and insightful post. Very well said...

[nokids]

but if he had stood there and told you everything wrong with your swing and how to fix it, you would probably be completely overwhelmed

I'm completely overwhelmed as it is now. lol. What harm could a few more swing thoughts do

Were you clear with what you expected?

I guess I was NOT clear with my first few lessons. But my most recent lesson I told the pro I didn't care about score, all I want is a beautiful swing! Next lesson I get, I'll tell the pro to not be afraid to rip my swing apart and focus on the big issues. I'm not interested in cosmetic band aid fixes.

Jake has made tremendous progress and I now refrain from any attempt at fixing anything because it falls on death's ears.

Come on Les!

[jeffc]

My 10 yr old son is now in is 3rd year with Andreas Sanchez over at Danielle Nadon's winter facility, before that he did the summer camp program, two years in a row with Andreas as the instructor.Jake was a member at Kanata this past season via the Kevin Haime Junior Initiative program and played in 15 outside tournements. Jake saw Andreas 3 times during the season for tune ups and moral bousts.

My point is, Andreas has Jake's ear and Andreas knows Jake's personality and swing as well as I do, difference beeing, Andreas's messages penetrate whereas the same messages from dad get lost somewhere during delivery/reception. You also need that other set of eyes to oversee and periodically tweak an and refine. The truth is, depending on were you want to go with your game should probably dictate what you want and need from your instructor.


Jake has made tremendous progress and I now refrain from any attempt at fixing anything because it falls on death's ears. Everyone learns differently and at their own pace. I have come to the conclusion that the game of golf is so unique and dificult that I strongly believe, you either have it or you don't. Your brain is either wired for it or it isn't to play at a very high level. You will reach a certain level of proficientcy with proper equipment, lessons and practise but to get to next plateau in your quest to become better, the golfer with natural ability, atheletic prowess and proprer mind set will thrive. You can take all the lessons in the world, pratise until your hands bleed, give up your life as you know live to dedicate it to golf, but at the end of the day, if you brain can't process the information properly or you brain sends the information to the muscles required to execute a certain shot and the muscles don't respond for whatever reason, well ....

I'd agree with this last part. While I think I have room to improve and could get my index down to a high single digit, I highly doubt I could ever get below, say a 7 or an 8 no matter how hard I tried and how much time I put into the game. I lack the length for one and if I compare my game with others when I play and see the difference between where I am and they are. That's ok though and it certainly would be fun trying.

[nokids]

Since the golf swing is something that evolves and is unique to that individual, I've changed my mind about wanting a golf instructor to "tell me all that's wrong with my swing" on the first lesson. Instead, I think the best way for me to learn is for an instructor to give me a big picture idea of what he's trying to do with my swing, and work slowly on tweaking things here and there without losing sight of the big picture.

[GoingLow]

Bro - go see my friend Gregg Foley - he will fix you up proper.

[nokids]

Bro - go see my friend Gregg Foley - he will fix you up proper.

I'm not broken, I'm just lost.

All the tools but no toolbox... something like that.

[leftylucas]

Pablo, I have been to Gregg and he is very good, but I would recommend Marc Levac for what you are looking for. His approach is exactly what you need. He does not re-invent your swing "his way", rather he looks at your swing and can show you what to do to improve parts of it as need be or for what you are trying to accomplish. The best thing about Marc is that he is a great teacher, not just a pro who knows about the golf swing. Marc will explain what you should do in many different ways until you actually can do what he is asking you to do.

[GoingLow]

Pablo - although I am sure Lefty is correct about Marc - Gregg adapts to each customers needs and does not always use the same approach. Or you can consider who's handicap is lower and go with the that....lol.....

[nokids]

I am just talking general golf instruction, I didn't mean it to sound like I'm looking for a teacher.

I want to have a plan when 2013 starts and I can convey this plan to the instructor(s) I'm going to work with. I have a bunch of swing issues I've noted and I'd like to get working on them asap! List of problems include, weight transfer, proper knee bend, spine tilt, hip turn, casting, swaying, chipping inconsistencies, putting alignment.... just minor stuff