shaft Frequency

[KenB]

Question - What exactly is the relevance of shaft frequency? Why would I want a highter or lower shaft freq.?

Thanks

[Chieflongtee]

Same as Regular flex, stiff flex, xtra stiff flex. Higher shaft frequency means stiffer. A noodle would have a very low frequency while a steel rod would have a very high frequency.There is more to it than that but for now let's leave it at that.

[KenB]

Thanks Andre

[echansue]

How would these modifications effect CPM (roughly, maybe?)
-one additional gram in headweight
-one inch of tip trimming?
-one inch of butt trimming?

[dbleber]

Wouldn't any trimming make it shorther and therefore make it stiffer? I can't see how 1 gram would affect things but I would assume it would make it softer?

[Chieflongtee]

Wouldn't any trimming make it shorther and therefore make it stiffer? I can't see how 1 gram would affect things but I would assume it would make it softer?

Shorter does not make it stiffer(no pun intended). What you have to keep in mind is this; the butt part is stiffer than the tip part. The more you trim the tip the less butt will be cut therefore a stiffer flex. The less you trim the tip the more you'll trim the butt(final playing length) therefore a softer flex. 1 gram is a mouse fart.

[echansue]

Let me ask the same question another way: How much additional head weight is needed to decrease the CPM by 10? How much (in inches) for tip and butt trimming to increase the CPM by 10? I guess these relationships are not linear, but any rough numbers?

[Chieflongtee]

All shafts are not alike but you'll find your answers here:

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/frequency.php?ref=

[challengegolf]

Just a quick question since I traded for The Saint's Hogan's frequency matched irons. When all the irons are the same frequency, they should all feel the same right? And if they are all the same frequency, does it mean that I can play them from the same position in my stance or I still have to move the ball up and down my stance depending on which iron I am hitting (ie a 9 iron compared to a 6)?
Thanks
Claude

[Chieflongtee]

Let me ask the same question another way: How much additional head weight is needed to decrease the CPM by 10? How much (in inches) for tip and butt trimming to increase the CPM by 10? I guess these relationships are not linear, but any rough numbers?

34 gram will decrease it by 12 cpm.

[Chieflongtee]

Just a quick question since I traded for The Saint's Hogan's frequency matched irons. When all the irons are the same frequency, they should all feel the same right? And if they are all the same frequency, does it mean that I can play them from the same position in my stance or I still have to move the ball up and down my stance depending on which iron I am hitting (ie a 9 iron compared to a 6)?
Thanks
Claude

That's something you'll have to find out for yourself but you'll find some answers here:

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/WhyMoi.php?ref=

I believe your irons are also MOI matched(same force required to swing all clubs)

[echansue]

34 gram will decrease it by 12 cpm.

Thanks lots.

[Chieflongtee]

Just a quick question since I traded for The Saint's Hogan's frequency matched irons. When all the irons are the same frequency, they should all feel the same right? And if they are all the same frequency, does it mean that I can play them from the same position in my stance or I still have to move the ball up and down my stance depending on which iron I am hitting (ie a 9 iron compared to a 6)?
Thanks
Claude

Claude. I certainly do not mean to depress you. The shaft frequencies were fitted for the Saint but they should be OK as long as you are in the same window, The MOI is different though and should be fitted to you. The principle behind MOi is to find your favorite club and to match the whole set to the same spec(same force to swing it and balance point).But like the Saint said it is something that EC can do for you.

[Chieflongtee]

Thanks lots.

Forgot to mention. 34 grams added to the head. 34g in the butt won't do squat.Think of it as a diving board.

[challengegolf]

It's OK Andre as my frequency was close to the one that the Saint had. I am between a stiff and reg flex so these irons should fit me well. I was just curious as I thought that I read or heard that if all the irons were at the same frequency then you could play them all from the same position in your stance (ie in the middle of your stance) which made the guessing for the right position in your stance out of the way.
Thanks
Claude

[Kona Golf]

My understanding is that "club length" plays a larger part in proper ball position since since the longer clubs "bottom out" more forward in your stance.

Jim

[BC MIST]

Just a quick question since I traded for The Saint's Hogan's frequency matched irons. When all the irons are the same frequency, they should all feel the same right? And if they are all the same frequency, does it mean that I can play them from the same position in my stance or I still have to move the ball up and down my stance depending on which iron I am hitting (ie a 9 iron compared to a 6)?
Thanks Claude

If the Hogan's are single frequency matched (SFM) ONLY, then the assumption is that they are also swingweight matched. This means that they will NOT necessarily feel the same, nor do they need to be played from the same ball position. When you pick the club up and waggle it back and forth, the short clubs may feel more flexible than the longer ones, however, what you feel in the waggle is NOT what you feel when you swing at the ball.

If the clubs are MOI matched, say using Tom Wishon's MOI matching software, then they are matched to your "favourite"*** club, and therefore all clubs should be played from the ball position of THAT club, AND, they will likely feel the same when swung at the ball. When you waggle these clubs, you will definitely realize that they do not FEEL the same as the long irons will feel light and the short irons heavy, as the swingweight (unimportant) of MOI matched clubs becomes progressively heavier as they move to the shorter irons.

*** IMO, instead of asking the player what his FAVOURITE iron is, I ask, "With what iron do you consistently hit your best shots and feels the best when you swing?" My favourite clubs are my driver and my E-5 Hogan SW. I did not match my iron set to either of these clubs.

You mention that you are between "stiff and regular." These terms apply to a traditionally matched set of clubs whose frequencies increase by about 4 cpm's as they move from long irons to short irons. With MOI matched clubs you have to throw out the terms stiff, regular, senior, ladies and x stiff, as they are meaningless. Your MOI matched clubs are "all" of these, or at least cover a wide range of flexes. If a normal set increases by 4 cpm's then a 9 iron set has a frequency range of 32 cpms. Your long irons are very flexible and your short ones very stiff. Does this make sense to do? Your SFM clubs have a range of 0 cpm's. So comparing SFM to traditional, your long irons are stiff(S), your mid irons regular(R) and your short irons senior(A). This comparison, however, should not be done.

From my readings, golfers who swing each club with the same effort or force, whose top of the backswing to impact time is close to being the same, would benefit from MOI matching. If your short irons have a short backswing while your longer clubs have a much longer backswing, so that the time to impact varies a lot, then swingweight matched clubs may be the way to go.

As I am always striving for consistency, I use MOI matched clubs and I give my longer irons the same effort as the short ones on full swings, and having the same ball position for all irons, eliminates the guesswork of the varying ball positions for SW matched clubs. IMO, traditional clubs are MISMATCHED as the shafts all have different frequencies and they all have different MOI's. Yes, the swingweights should be matched, but swingweight is a relatively meaningless factor in the club's performance, except that the clubs feel the same when you are NOT swinging them.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE=BC MIST] So comparing SFM to traditional, your long irons are stiff(S), your mid irons regular(R) and your short irons senior(A). This comparison, however, should not be done.

QUOTE]


Was that a typo?

[BC MIST]

Was that a typo?

If I make a traditional set of 9 irons from 3 to AW, and make them "Stiff," on John Kaufmann's charts, the frequencies are, say:303,307,311,315,319,324,328,332,336 for the chosen lengths.

If I single frequency match the clubs to say my "favourite" club, the 7 iron, all clubs will have a frequency of 319 cpm's. This includes my 3 iron which will now be 319, whereas before it would have been 303. So now, the 3 iron is STIFFER than traditional (319 to 303) and my shortest iron will be more flexible than before. (319 to 336)

Does this make sense, or have I missed something here?

[Chieflongtee]

If I make a traditional set of 9 irons from 3 to AW, and make them "Stiff," on John Kaufmann's charts, the frequencies are, say:303,307,311,315,319,324,328,332,336 for the chosen lengths.

If I single frequency match the clubs to say my "favourite" club, the 7 iron, all clubs will have a frequency of 319 cpm's. This includes my 3 iron which will now be 319, whereas before it would have been 303. So now, the 3 iron is STIFFER than traditional (319 to 303) and my shortest iron will be more flexible than before. (319 to 336)

Does this make sense, or have I missed something here?

Ok. Now i get you. I thought that you meant a traditional set.