PGA Expo 2012

[Par2Pro]

Hey All,

Thought I would start a new thread for the PGA Expo info. I will be heading there next week and posting videos on my youtube channel as soon as possible.

This is a lot smaller than the Merchandise Show in Orlando; however there should be some good news there...

One of the 'new releases' will be the Full Swing camera add-on that measures ball spin and club face angle, club speed and swing path:
http://www.fullswinggolf.com/product...rformance-cam/


Happy Golfing!
Cory

[bubba22]

Very cool Cory. Keep us posted!

[Par2Pro]

Hey All,

First night of the PGA Expo - DEMO night at the Callaway Golf Center. I was able to take a few videos of the grounds and am uploading them from the hotel now (very slow upload connection). They should be available shortly at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Par2ProV...?feature=watch

I didn't video any of the Flightscope or Foresight booths (the only sim/analyzer companies there) as it got too windy to be able to hear anyone. Hopefully be able to get good videos of Full Swing, Foresight, Flightscope and maybe a couple of other companies tomorrow.

Couple of quick notes:
1. The Foresight HMT is now available but only available as the enhanced version!
2. Flightscope has made some advances with their X1Tbox and the E6 integration.

More news coming...

[wbealsd]

Looking forward to your updates, Cory!

[kwantfm]

Thanks Cory... good news and really looking forward to hearing updates on Foresight GC2/HMT and the Flightscope products.

[Par2Pro]

Hey All, I am uploading more videos now. There are some great news in the vids.

Look for a brand new system package prototype from TruGolf - retailing at $2,495!!! It should be ready this fall

[kwantfm]

I watched the new GC2/HMT video with great interest, thanks.

Brad's shot:
Club Data
Impact location - low centre
Loft - 24*
Face angle to target - 8.2* open
Attack angle - 5.0* up
Face angle to path - 6.8* open
Path in to out - 1.4*

Ball Data
Ball path - 4.6* right
Launch angle - 14.6*

If anyone disagrees please let me know but it seems to me that the HMT technology still has issues. Face open to target of 8.2* should, in my opinion, start the ball a lot further right than 4.6* and the loft figure of 24* seems ridiculous especially given launch angle of 14.6*. I'm also dubious of 5* up angle of attack.

T

[CPA]

Interesting.
Swingbyte would give you those questionable numbers for less $.

[bubba22]

Yes these numbers do not add up.

I agree given a face angle open 8.2 and a face to path 6.8 with a path 1.4 that the ball should start more than 4.6 to the right. Doesn't add up! Either the ball path is wrong or the club measurement is off. I have always said it is difficult to get club and ball data together.

The loft I assume is the dynamic loft. Remember there is static loft (inherent fixed loft of the club), dynamic loft (static loft + angle of attack) and spin loft (dynamic loft - angle of attack). Just not sure what "LOFT" they are measuring or calculating at that matter. Either way it seems off.

[Par2Pro]

I would like to spend more time and test it myself, but I have committed to other testing first before I can bring in the HMT. Keep your eyes peeled on other videos and I will post more as soon as I have it in

[bubba22]

Cool Cory!

[CPA]

Just thinking out loud on the HMT.

Trackmans ball flight laws put a driver azimuth anywhere between 72 and 92 percent determined by clubface.
see http://www.trackman.dk/download/User...20Laws%20I.pdf

Cory's video was 67.6 percent.....not far off the realm of posibilities. Foresight publish error of +/- .5 degrees on both clubface and path. Error could bring it up to 80%, not taking into account the published error of 1 degrre on azimuth.

You would need a number of shots to check. Do you want to send it to me Cory and I will test it for you?

How do other systems stack up on ball vs club data logic?

[CPA]

Then on top of that the ball hit clubface low and towards heel- trackman say gear effect causes fade spin axis

what does it all mean?

at this rate learning Greek would be easy.

[kwantfm]

I'm definitely look forward to more information and ideally a direct shot-to-shot comparison with one of the Doppler systems. If the HMT works then this is what I will be getting as I'm looking for an indoor setup and believe that the GC2 has the best ball data in that setting.

[CPA]

Agree on that. It would have helped to hit the ball in centre of clubface. Depending on the brand the heel would reduce the pertantage of azimuth determined by clubaface angle open.

[bubba22]

Need more testing for sure. Agree gear effect will influence the spin for sure and azimuth somewhat. The impact location is low center. The launch angle should be lower. Need more info and test in to understand the loft and angle of attack!

[Par2Pro]

Hey All, Foresight has confirmed that the data in the video is correct. If you have questions on it, they suggest contacting Jon Watters at Foresight Sports for an explanation.
http://www.foresightsports.com/contact

Happy Golfing,
Cory

[kwantfm]

Got this response from Foresight. Will follow up shortly.

Thank you for your inquiry into HMT and specifically the information presented by that video. Please excuse our delayed reply as Jon and I are traveling overseas this week, but we’re happy to help you.

Appreciating your confidence in the GC2, we can offer you some equal confidence in the HMT. Ping, Taylor-Made and Cobra have been using HMT since the PGA show this past January. Titleist, Cleveland and Callaway are also now using HMT, each in their R & D departments for evaluation and development of new equipment. Most of them have also tested HMT against the $100K+ Qualisys camera systems, and the consistent feedback we receive from them tells us that HMT is the most accurate head measurement technology available. So the measures can be trusted.

What is shown in that video, and by the HMT in general, is that the singular measures of club face angles do not produce simple 1:1 corresponding relationships to ball flight. There are multiple variables in those dynamics, and it’s why we provide all the varied measures shown. It’s the combination of delivery mechanics that produce the given ball flight.

We can’t go into the technical specifics by email, but if you’d like a detailed explanation, please give us your phone number and a good time to reach you and we can have Rick, our fitting specialist call to discuss this with you.


Thanks again,

Scott and Jon.

[bubba22]

kwan I tried to reach Foresight to discuss the HMT but they are hard to reach. The complexity of ball and club data is appreciated. I would love to hear from them as I have special interest in the raw data. Do leave a note here once you hear from them.

[kwantfm]

kwan I tried to reach Foresight to discuss the HMT but they are hard to reach. The complexity of ball and club data is appreciated. I would love to hear from them as I have special interest in the raw data. Do leave a note here once you hear from them.

Will do.

I'm guessing that the key is the low heel hit for this particular shot. Probably means that the starting ball flight is both lower and more to the left than we might otherwise expect given face angle and dynamic loft. I can almost rationalise the dynamic loft of 24* as being a combination of higher actual loft than stated by manufacturer, open clubface, some forward shaft bend, positive angle of attack.

[Par2Pro]

Great job kwantfm - looking forward to hearing how your call goes.

[bubba22]

Kwan the impact was low center and the launch angle was 14.6 degrees. The dynamic loft seems high but like I said, you can debate the ball and club numbers on any system. Just go to any clubfitter forum and the debates never end. Everything can be explained with different theories.

[kwantfm]

Kwan the impact was low center and the launch angle was 14.6 degrees. The dynamic loft seems high but like I said, you can debate the ball and club numbers on any system. Just go to any clubfitter forum and the debates never end. Everything can be explained with different theories.

You're right... hopefully info from the horse's mouth will be enlightening.

[bubba22]

I am sure the system is good. They will likely have their theories about the bulge and roll of the driver that will influence some of the launch characteristics. The gear effect (which is different than bulge and roll) will influence the spin and usually not the direction. I would love to hear their theories. Keep us posted.

[Par2Pro]

Good points bubba... Looking forward to another theory

[kwantfm]

I had half an hour with Rick Cuellar at Foresight today. It was a good conversation. He did take the time to discuss the myriad factors that confound simple relationships between head data and ball data (we've speculated on all of these).

Most importantly they are very confident about the direct measurement capabilities of the technology and he has had confirmation from TaylorMade, Callaway and Ping from their motion capture tech (e.g. TaylorMade MATT) that HMT works very well.

I let him know that a series of white papers and a technical discussion of HMT would help enormously for those of us looking to make the leap to purchase.

All-in-all I believe what Rick is saying. I'll wait for the papers to come out and fortunately I don't have any particular time pressure on purchase. I'm pretty excited about HMT now though.

[bubba22]

Thanks kwan. Like I said, I suspect they feel its perfect. Good luck with it and once purchased post some pics etc.

[Par2Pro]

Thanks Kwan.

On a side note, I had one in my hands, but had to ship it out right away as it sold off. So my review will have to wait until my next inventory shipment

[kwantfm]

Thanks Kwan.

On a side note, I had one in my hands, but had to ship it out right away as it sold off. So my review will have to wait until my next inventory shipment

Looking forward to the eventual review!

[wbealsd]

Cory, any chance of a "user review" from the person that purchased it?