Epoch-3 tees

[jeffc]

darn, and I always thought it was my lousy swing sending those drives into the woods. Now I can blame my tees ;-)

[doglegleft]

So where can I guy these in Ottawa???

I believe they will soon be available at Golf Town.

-doglegleft

[doglegleft]

darn, and I always thought it was my lousy swing sending those drives into the woods. Now I can blame my tees ;-)

no no, I assure you that our epoch tee will still help you find the woods with greater distance and more accuracy.


-doglegleft

[cut bunt 7wood]

doglegleft,

Thanks for the explination in regards to the image you posted. The one thing I don't understand is how taking away spin is going to help your average golfer. Doesn't your average player, not Aaron Olberhouser, need backspin to help get the ball in the air? My swingspeed is about 95 miles per hour...I need all the help getting the ball in the air that I can. It seems this product is better suited for tour quality players, and not the average "joe."

I just have a hard time beleiving that your tee, which appears to just be a regular biodegradable tee with 4 slots cut out of the top can do all you are claiming. You claim your tee sits outside the lip of the dimple only touching the exo-skeleton, but doesn't a traditional wood tee do the same thing? Wood tees don't touch the dimples either, only the exo-skeleton. It just doesn't make sense.

Everyone out there claims to be longer and straighter, all of the other tees I listed before, Brush-T, Zero Friction, VS, Rip Tips they all say they are the longest and straightest. Heck even the Stinger Tee claims to be 14 yards longer than a wood tee...if that was really the case, wouldn't the USGA ban the product? What design flaw do the others have, and what design revelation do you have? They all seem to be doing the same thing. The USGA reported in last weeks GolfWeek Magazine, "they have conducted tee testing for the past year and found no performance advantage in any tee." In that statement the USGA basically said your claims are false, are you saying the USGA is wrong?

doglegleft - "It is a fact that Evolve Golf’s epoch tee is significantly more durable than an equal length wood tee. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion… I just want to be sure we are all disseminating accurate information."

I am disseminating 100% accurate information actually. I had a package of Epoch 3 tees that broke every time I hit them. Every time with a driver, every time with a fairway wood, every time with an iron. It isn't my opinion, it is fact. There were 3 other players with me to back that statement up. You stated the Epoch 3 tee is 5 times stronger than a wood tee, then you stated it is signifigantly more durable than a comparible length wood tee. Do you have proof of your above statements, because having played the product I personally don't beleive it. Now the problem might have been addressed, but I have talked to a number of people who have said the same thing. Heck even my brother in law out in Phoenix Az said the same thing. You guys sponsored a demo day where he works (Gray Hawk C.C.) and even all of those guys said they broke on every shot.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you, I just think this is another snake oil claim. If I had a nickle for every tour player that said the Pro V1 was 15 yards longer than any other ball they had played, I would be a rich man. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is and besides the people you are paying to play your golf tee, I have never heard any person say your product is worth the money paid for it. $7 for 16 tees is an insult and we should all be offended that there are companies out there trying to take advantage.

[dbleber]

I always find in funny when a simple thread turns into the great debate!
Denny

[doglegleft]

…provided this discussion remains professional I welcome the opportunity to continue the dialog.

Thanks for the explination in regards to the image you posted. The one thing I don't understand is how taking away spin is going to help your average golfer. Doesn't your average player, not Aaron Olberhouser, need backspin to help get the ball in the air? My swingspeed is about 95 miles per hour...I need all the help getting the ball in the air that I can. It seems this product is better suited for tour quality players, and not the average "joe."

You are correct to an extent. The ball must have backspin in order to “fly”. However, too much backspin will adversely affect distance performance. Unintended / added sidespin will adversely affect dispersion performance. Based on your 95 mph swing speed the epoch will provide 3 to 4 yards of distance and 4 to 5 yards of improved dispersion / accuracy.

-doglegleft

[doglegleft]

I just have a hard time beleiving that your tee, which appears to just be a regular biodegradable tee with 4 slots cut out of the top can do all you are claiming. You claim your tee sits outside the lip of the dimple only touching the exo-skeleton, but doesn't a traditional wood tee do the same thing? Wood tees don't touch the dimples either, only the exo-skeleton. It just doesn't make sense.

The wood tee was merely designed to replace a conical mound of sand. The Reddy Tee was introduced in the early 1920’s after the USGA and R&A adopted a single ball size standard. Dr. Lowell the inventor of the Reddy Tee decided to simply make the cup of his wood tee design the same depth and circumference as the golf ball standard. The wooden tee is an 80 year old peg void of advanced geometric design and material science.



The epoch’s convex surface geometry promotes a consistent launch environment resulting in better ball launch characteristics over concave “cupped” wood tees.



The epoch's convex radius posts are wider than any golf ball dimple. The benefit of our proprietary design is a specific reduction in deflective surface contact. The epoch only interacts with the exoskeleton of the golf ball dimple pattern (outside the dimples). The epoch's convex radius post is symmetrical to the radius of the golf ball standard (think of the posts as 4 ball bearings).



The epoch eliminates deflective surface contact resulting in faster ball launch speeds, consistent launch angles, and optimal spin rates.

-doglegleft

[doglegleft]

Everyone out there claims to be longer and straighter, all of the other tees I listed before, Brush-T, Zero Friction, VS, Rip Tips they all say they are the longest and straightest. Heck even the Stinger Tee claims to be 14 yards longer than a wood tee

What design flaw do the others have, and what design revelation do you have? They all seem to be doing the same thing.

I will allow the results of our R&D, TOUR adoption, and objective performance reviews speak for our product.



The surface geometry of the epoch is advanced from that of the bristle and multi-prong tee alternatives. The multi-prong and bristle tee designs create inconsistent ball to tee contact leading to high spin rates. Material compliance issues common to the bristle and multi-prong designs contribute to the ball flight inconstancies (these designs replicate hitting from a flyer lie in an abstract sense).



The epoch reduces surface contact by 93% over a standard wooden tee and 50% over a stinger tee...

-doglegleft

[doglegleft]

...if that was really the case, wouldn't the USGA ban the product?

Evolve Golf’s epoch conforms to the USGA and R&A rules of golf.

The USGA reported in last weeks Golfweek Magazine, "they have conducted tee testing for the past year and found no performance advantage in any tee." In that statement the USGA basically said your claims are false, are you saying the USGA is wrong?

No. I agree with the USGA. There is no performance advantage in any tee that the USGA has tested under the rules of golf. Rule 11-1 was amended in 2004 to introduce a penalty of disqualification for use of a non-conforming tee. The amended rule states, “The length of a tee cannot exceed four inches, and it cannot be designed with elements that indicate line of play or influence the flight of the ball.”

The epoch golf tee does not influence the flight of the ball. Evolve Golf’s epoch influences the flight of the ball less than a wood tee.

When we submitted our prototype for conformity review we included the results from our performance benchmark tests. The comparative test data illustrated the performance advantage that our prototype had over the wood tee. The USGA initially indicated that they would be returning a non-conformed decision on our prototype. We provided the USGA with our technical argument. We soundly illustrated the merits of our technology and subsequent conformance under the rules of golf. Several weeks later, Evolve Golf received a letter of conformity. We can state that Evolve Golf conforms to the Rules of Golf.

Had the USGA non-conformed the epoch tee they would have to non-conform / ban the wood tee. The USGA is aware of the adverse influence that the wood tee has on ball flight.

The USGA’s golf ball test methods do not involve the use of a wood tee.
The USGA’s driver test method does not involve the use of a wood tee.

Evolve Golf’s epoch allows you to maximize the distance and accuracy potential of your equipment. The wood tee does not allow you to reach the full potential of your equipment.

Evolve Golf’s epoch is 3 to 7 yards longer and 4 to 9 yards straighter than a wood tee. ...our metrics are based on a driver swing speed range of 90 to 120 mph

Curious that you didn’t mention a few additional quotes from the Golfweek articles such as,

“Several Tour players use it, and Steve Flesch was among 22 players on various worldwide tours who claimed victories in 2004 with Evolve’s epoch tee” Golfweek 02.26.05

“Still a spokesperson for a reputable launch monitor company manufacturer, Zelocity, said at the merchandise show that the Evolve tee (epoch) has shown marginally increased ball launch speed during informal testing.” Golfweek 02.26.05

-doglegleft

[doglegleft]

I had a package of Epoch 3 tees that broke every time I hit them.

Where did you purchase or receive the package of epoch-3 tees from?

You stated the Epoch 3 tee is 5 times stronger than a wood tee, then you stated it is signifigantly more durable than a comparible length wood tee. Do you have proof of your above statements, because having played the product I personally don't beleive it. Now the problem might have been addressed, but I have talked to a number of people who have said the same thing. Heck even my brother in law out in Phoenix Az said the same thing. You guys sponsored a demo day where he works (Gray Hawk C.C.)

Evolve Golf has been proactive in our response to the durability issue we had back in the fall of 2004. We stopped production to identify and correct the issue. Our decisions lead to a 6 month delay in our national product launch. We have replaced thousands of packages at our cost.

I can ensure you that the epoch is 3 times more durable than a standard wooden tee and 5 times more durable than the wooden stinger tee. We have performed notch izod material testing and player testing… the biocomposite / biodegradable epoch is more durable than wood.

I sincerely apologize that you received either tour prototypes or a bad package from the test market shipment.

I would be happy to ensure that you receive a replacement pack. I can contact the director of golf at Grey Hawk where your brother-in-law works. Alternatively, you can send me an email with your address and I will personally ensure that you receive a replacement package.

FYI, we provided tour prototype tees at Grayhawk during the 2004 Tommy Bahama Classic.


-doglegleft

a package of 15 wood tees (3 1/4") SRP $1.25 (Canadian) $1.00 USD
(will AVERAGE 1 round)

vs.

a package of 15 epoch-3 tees (3 1/4") SRP $6.25 (Canadian) $4.95 USD
(will AVERAGE 5 rounds)

[dbleber]

Whats the record for most posts in a row by the same guy! I don't know if everything is true but for 7 bucks I think I might give them a try and see for myself.
Denny

[doglegleft]

Whats the record for most posts in a row by the same guy! I don't know if everything is true but for 7 bucks I think I might give them a try and see for myself.
Denny

Please accept my apologies... I will return to reading your great forum.

Cheers,

-doglegleft

BJ Maloy
CEO, Evolve Golf
bjmaloy@evolvegolf.com

[dbleber]

Please accept my apologies... I will return to reading your great forum.

Cheers,

-doglegleft

BJ Maloy
CEO, Evolve Golf
bjmaloy@evolvegolf.com

Don't stop posting, I was only being a smart *****. I think its good to have somebody who is in the golf industry on the forum giving there inside knowlodge that we would not normally be able to get. If your company is coming out with anything new to the market let us know as you can see there a 1 or 2 people on this forum who like golf a little bit.
Denny

[Michael]

Hey, keep posting, I am going to give them a try as well. That is if the snow ever melts around here!!!!

[doglegleft]

Hey, keep posting, I am going to give them a try as well. That is if the snow ever melts around here!!!!

Will do, I appreciate the opportunity to participate in the golf forums...

btw, you can always take up ice golf... links style.

[doglegleft]

cut bunt 7wood, curious first couple of posts... do you work in the golf industry?

[Kilroy]

btw, you can always take up ice golf... links style.

Been there, done that http://www.golfresource.net/articles...t/snowgolf.htm

[doglegleft]

Been there, done that http://www.golfresource.net/articles...t/snowgolf.htm

That is phenomenal... there is a course in New England that plows their 9 hole in the winter...

the course is Kelley Greens in Nahant, MA www.kelleygreens.com

Here is a link to the article...

http://www.thedailyitemoflynn.com/ne...articleid=8258

[jbrace]

no no, I assure you that our epoch tee will still help you find the woods with greater distance and more accuracy.


-doglegleft

That's a good one!

[pagman]

I bought a few bags of Epoch tees at Chuck Brown's during their warehouse sale as all accessories were 25% off. I'm looking forward to using them once the season starts. $5 for a bag of 16 tees is still a little expensive, especially since the pro at my club has free tees available to members all season long. I guess curiosity got the best of me and I've spent my money in worse places. Everyone on the major tours is using them and Oberholser is the the only one on staff. That alone tells me something. I know that on tour they get them for free but in the pro ranks, any piece of equipment they want is free (including the $800 drivers).

I recall an episode of Play with the Pros on the Golf Channel where Laura Diaz was endorsing a wooden tee (not Epoch)that she claims went 1-4 yds. further. Evolve is obviously not the only ones in the hi-tech tee business. I think it's great that BJ Maloy from Evolve golf can offer his insight on this forum.

I'll re-post once the season starts and I can get on the launch monitor at my club to see how the Epoch stacks up against my usual 2 3/4 " wooden tee.

P.S. Doglegleft, one of your fellow Yanks, cut bunt 7 wood, is giving you a hard time. Canadians aren't usually so rude.

[jbrace]

Another endorser is Grace Park. Check out this month's "What's In My Bag" (under Essentials) in Golf Digest.

[doglegleft]

...especially since the pro at my club has free tees available to members all season long.

We will soon be announcing several facilities throughout the US that will feature the epoch as a preferred condition of play. Members and guests of country clubs and patrons of resort golf facilities that are accustomed to receiving golf tees for free will still receive the epoch for free.



Evolve Golf's product line of epoch performance golf tees are made using a proprietary biocomposite... a biodegradable material.



-The epoch is several times more durable than wood (lasts longer / less tee litter)

-The epoch reduces damage to mowers, tires, and turf (reduces costs)

-The epoch biodegrades 100% in less than a year provided it is in a compost rich environment such as a tee box.



The bottom line is that the epoch is more cost effective than wood based on the durability factor alone. The epoch also improves tee box conditions while reducing maintenance costs for the golf facility.



These advantages hold true for the golfer who purchases golf tees and for the golf facility that purchases tees as a courtesy to their members and guests alike.

I recall an episode of Play with the Pros on the Golf Channel where Laura Diaz was endorsing a wooden tee (not Epoch)that she claims went 1-4 yds.

Laura Diaz played the Stinger wood tee.

$5 for a bag of 16 tees is still a little expensive

- a package of 15 standard wood tees (3 1/4") SRP $1.00 (will AVERAGE 1 round) - (cost of 5 rounds, $5.00))



- a package of 20 Stinger PRO XL (3") SRP $2.00 (will AVERAGE 1.5 rounds) - (cost of 5 rounds, $6.50))



- a package of 15 epoch-3 tees (3 1/4") SRP $5.00 (will AVERAGE 5 rounds) - (cost of 5 rounds, $5.00))



I can’t argue with sticker shock. I grew up playing weekend golf so I was accustomed to paying $0.50 cents for a bag of 2 1/8” wood tees…. I couldn’t believe it when a package of 2 ¾" wood tees became $1.00 dollar… it was the same wooden tee 5/8” longer. These longer wood tees cost twice as much and broke twice as much.



The other factor to consider is the epoch has become the #1 Performance Golf Tee on TOUR. We didn’t take our product to an advertising studio… we introduced our technology on the major professional tours.



-doglegleft