Hitting a *cough* provisional *cough*

[Kilroy]

Warrior, you are SOOOO missing the point.

[BC MIST]

The point is, if he flubbed his provisional 50 yards and it took him two strokes to play the provisional up would he still be as exited about taking it instead of finding the lost ball? Basically he wants the provisional cause it's good after the fact.

Hit your ball, find it, hit it again, if you can't find it go back and rehit, that's the basic premiss of the game. It's not hit two balls, take the best one.

Hopefully, your consideration of the following FACTS, will be helpful.

(1) The Spirit of the Game Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

(2) A ball is deemed “lost” if:
a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player’s side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or
b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or
c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or
d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or
e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

(3) 27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1.

(4) b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

When one understands this relevant information, there really isn't much else that can be said.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I don't see how anything I've said contradicts those rules you just posted, I don't get why you posted them at all, seriously. What part of that post is supposed to enlighten me,please explain. Or are simply hoping the act of officially quoting the rule book will somehow make whatever point you are trying to make.

You seem to contest that a provisional ball becoimes the ball in play once it has been hit, the rules you posted support that, so please explain instead of just throwing the rule book at me. I'd really like to know how anything I posted in my original response is wrong or arguable, really!

Kilroy, what point? I got quoted in one of BC's replies and I don't see why or how anything I said conflicts with or contradicts the rules or the "sprit of the game", not even remotely. So I guess I am missing the point.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Hopefully, your consideration of the following FACTS, will be helpful.

(1) The Spirit of the Game Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

Oh I see, it logically follows that this means it's not in the spirit of the game to look for another's lost ball when he would rather play his provisional, fine. That's not really what I was talking about, I'd consider it rude as well.

[LobWedge]

You aren't really supposed to have two ball in play and pick the best one. So in spirit anyhow, you should really look for your first. The rules are such that you don't really have to look that hard, or at all really, but others can find your ball for you. You can hit your provisional while they are searching making it the ball in play, if you play out of turn there may be other consequences etc...

The point is a provisional is supposed to be "if you can't find your original". Deciding you want it because it's a good shot is bending the rules IMO. OIf course at that point you've already paid the price of a bad shot anyhow nad managed to hit the good one...

I sometimes simply re-hit, abandonning the original ball completely without even bothering to look for it.

It's all about maintaining pace of play really. The rules say you're allowed to search for up to 5 minutes, but it's not mandatory. A provisional is not a "free swing". If it ends up becoming the ball in play, it still has the same penalty strokes and actual strokes you would count if you had just put another ball in play instead. The main difference is, a provisional allows you to search if you want, "3 off the tee" doesn't.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I'm aware of that, and they are good points, but at the root of this conversation appears to be my assumption that choosing to not look for a ball because the provisional is in very good shape is taking advantage of a rule made to keep up the pace.

I guess I'm alone in this.

[LobWedge]

I'm aware of that, and they are good points, but at the root of this conversation appears to be my assumption that choosing to not look for a ball because the provisional is in very good shape is taking advantage of a rule made to keep up the pace.

I guess I'm alone in this.

That's exactly why the rule is like that. You have that choice. It's also why you're only allowed 5 minutes to search for a ball, and not as long as you want. The rules are there to help, not punish.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Hopefully, your consideration of the following FACTS, will be helpful.

(1) The Spirit of the Game Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

(2) A ball is deemed “lost” if:
a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player’s side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or
b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or
c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or
d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or
e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

(3) 27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1.

(4) b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

When one understands this relevant information, there really isn't much else that can be said.

y'know I didn't even use the term "spirit of the game" in my original post, I just said in spirit. I adopted this term as a rebuttle to your post. I had no idea it was official defined somewhere. I think it was pretty obvious I was speaking generally, ie, what the game is supposed to be about. Even given your nicely quoted definition I'm sure many might consider not looking for a lost ball unsportmanlike, although this behaviour seems to be the accepted practise. Regardless of what the letter of the law in the rule book says, It's pretty clear what the intention of the game is. I'd be willing to bet the only reason you aren't required to look for a lost ball before playing another stroke on your provisional, making it the ball IN PLAY, as I said in my first post that you seemed to argue, is that policing this sort of a rule would be absurd and impossible and inconsequential in the face of the rare occurence when someone actually benifits from this rule. And even in that case, they did actually hit the shot.


I'll paraphrase my original stement for you and maybe it will help

I don't think it was ever the intention of the game or the rules to allow a player to have two balls in play and be able to choose the best one. This is effectively the situation that arises here following a rule designed to keep up pace of play. It's borderline unsportmanlike IMO, but considering we all play by the same rules, so be it...I'm just saying.....

[BC MIST]

Oh I see, it logically follows that this means it's not in the spirit of the game to look for another's lost ball when he would rather play his provisional, fine. That's not really what I was talking about, I'd consider it rude as well.

If we are playing a round together and you hit a ball into the bush and then you hit a provisional, I will ask you if you want help in looking for your ball. If you say, "No," I will not, but will help if you say "Yes." This is exactly what we do when we officiate in an OVGA or the like, tournament. As it is YOUR ball I/we will respect your RIGHT not to look for it. Some FC's or opponents will look, because it might be to their advantage to do so, and is within the rules, and that is their right, as well. Both helping to look or not helping to look are within the "spirit of the game," because both are within the Rules.

Contrary to what you suggest, hitting a provisional after a shot into the woods, does not give you "two balls in play," after which you get to choose the one you want. I outlined above WHEN the provisional becomes the ball "in play" and that only occurs AFTER the original is deemed LOST, and the 5 occasions when that happens are also outlined above.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I'd behaive in a similar fashion, I think most of us would.

If you take another stroke playing the provisional beyond the point blah blah blah...it becomes the ball in play, wether the original ball is lost or not. Now if you are implying that the original is deemed lost by the action of continueing play with the provisional, well, fine. I'm talking about a situation where the ball is more or less abandonned by choice after the provisional is seen to be in exceptional position.

Ya, you are right, it's not breaking the rules. It also appears to be "the way" which is news to me. And yes, it's not quite having two balls in play, but IMO it's pretty close. I think it's obvious the advantage that this situation gives you. I also remember that big break episode where most of the players seemed quite disgusted with this one guy for not looking for his original ball after sticking his provisional to 2 feet. While he was within the rules for not looking, he really came off as a gamer trying to work the rules to his advantage.

Reverse engineering the letter of the law doesn't always get you back to the original intent of the game and the rules. While this thread has softened my opinion somewhat I'll likely always consider this a neccessary evil to help pace of play.