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  1. #1
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    ball moves on green

    so I go up to tap in an 8 incher, having told my playing partner I want to sink it, he was going to send it back to me.

    I take a stance, I forget if I had grounded the putter, I don't think so, but am not sure, tha ball moves half an inch.

    it's not a windy day, but there is some wind, and this green still has some mild punch marks. A gust of wind could have finally rolled it into the nearest punch hole it was teatering on... could have. If the club was grounded, it wasn't near the blal or a vey forcefull grounding, but that probably doesn't matter.

    Ball was then hit (into the hole) without replacing it.

    how do I card this. I don't really care, in my heart I made x strokes in that round and am happy with the round despite some pesky ball movement on the green. However, I am keeping an oficial cap this year so...

    I've read that the rules hav changed, if it is deemed that the ball moveed from wind it can be played from it's final resting point free of p[enalty, regardless if the ball was addressed.

    If the address is deemed to have moved the ball it must be rplaced under 1 stroke penalty. If you then hit it without replacing, is that another 1 stroke penalty. or an added 2 strokes for a total of 3 penalty strokes

    I'm tempted to just say I didn't ground the club, which is proably the case, and the wind moved it, which is probably the case anyhow, but I'm not sure if either...

  2. #2
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Regardless of whether you grounded your club. if the wind moved the ball then you must play it from where it finished. No penalty.

    If you had addressed the ball (ie grounded your club immediately behind or in front of the ball), you must know or be virtually certain that the wind or some other agency other than gravity moved your ball for the above to apply.

    Otherwise there is a 1 stroke penalty and if the ball is not replaced, another 1 stroke penalty.

  3. #3
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    thanks, thats pretty much what I figured, and that answers the other question if htting the ball after it's moved, "if" it was ruled to be moved back.

  4. #4
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    This penalty stroke for a ball moving after you take your stance is ridiculous. What am I supposed to do, tip toe to the ball if it's on a hill? Why not just require golfers to replace their moved ball to its original lie without penalty? Penalty strokes are meant to stop people from gaining an advantage, what advantage is there if your ball moves back an inch? Heck, if my ball moves back I'll just hit it from the farther distance just to prove to the golf gods I can still make this putt!

    I think if it moves, rules should allow us to put it back to the original spot OR ELSE I get penalized. Simple and fair.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  5. #5
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    Ya that's pretty much how they've made it cause of a cuople cases where the wind blew th ball on the tour.

    I guess the play is, when n doubt, don't ground your club, if at all. Supposedly Jack never grounded his putter in tourniment play.

  6. #6
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    I think if it moves, rules should allow us to put it back to the original spot OR ELSE I get penalized. Simple and fair.
    oh, I see. ya, unless you actually touched the ball, that would work pretty good.

  7. #7
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wknd_Warrior View Post
    Ya that's pretty much how they've made it cause of a cuople cases where the wind blew th ball on the tour.

    I guess the play is, when n doubt, don't ground your club, if at all. Supposedly Jack never grounded his putter in tourniment play.
    As I understand it, you can still get a penalty under 18-2a if your ball moves (not by wind) and you have not addressed the ball yet. The thing I don't understand is the rules say the player is penalized if he/she caused the ball at rest to move. Well how are we supposed to know if the vibrations of the player stepping up to the ball caused the ball to move or if the ball was just 'due' to move because it was on a steep part of the green hanging on for dear life by a blade of grass that gave out after 15 seconds which had nothing to do with the player being in the vicinity?

    * takes deep breath *
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  8. #8
    Albatross HoganWoods is on a distinguished road HoganWoods's Avatar
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    Unless its a tournament I say who cares.... I wonder if anyone on here would make you count that in a money game.. anyone?

  9. #9
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoganWoods View Post
    Unless its a tournament I say who cares.... I wonder if anyone on here would make you count that in a money game.. anyone?
    I though this was a Rules of Golf Forum. Which others do you not bother with?

  10. #10
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAA View Post
    Regardless of whether you grounded your club. if the wind moved the ball then you must play it from where it finished. No penalty.

    If you had addressed the ball (ie grounded your club immediately behind or in front of the ball), you must know or be virtually certain that the wind or some other agency other than gravity moved your ball for the above to apply.

    Otherwise there is a 1 stroke penalty and if the ball is not replaced, another 1 stroke penalty.
    Hi AAA,

    What if I hit a shot on a Greensmere Premier #10, a green with a big slope. The ball hits the middle of the green and spins back 10 feet. It comes to rest for a minute and I walk up to mark it. As I bend down to place my marker the ball moves anothe 6 inches down the green and stops. There is no wind. Do I
    -penalize myself 1 stroke and play it from the first place it came to rest or
    -play from the second place it came to rest without penalty or
    -other?

    Thanks
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  11. #11
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    What if I hit a shot on a Greensmere Premier #10, a green with a big slope. The ball hits the middle of the green and spins back 10 feet. It comes to rest for a minute and I walk up to mark it. As I bend down to place my marker the ball moves anothe 6 inches down the green and stops. There is no wind. Do I
    -penalize myself 1 stroke and play it from the first place it came to rest or
    -play from the second place it came to rest without penalty or
    -other?
    What did you do to cause the ball to move? Nothing. You had not addressed the ball, nothing fell out of your pocket and moved the ball, nor did you drop your putter on it. Therefore, you would not be penalized.

    To be penalized, the accidental movement of the ball must be directly attributable to something that you did. On a calm day, if you had addressed the ball, and gravity then moved it, you are deemed to have caused it to move and would be penalized 1 stroke. If it was a very windy day, and after you had addressed the ball, it moved, you would not be penalized because it was virtually certain that the ball moved because of the wind.

    In the past, if you ball was addressed and it them moved, YOU moved it. Now, there a few "agencies of forgiveness," that keep you from being penalized every time.

    Personally, and particularly on very short putts on #10, where I have not marked the ball before tapping in, I do NOT ground my club, or, actually say, "I am not grounding my club," so that if the ball moves, I am not dinged.

  12. #12
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    1-To be penalized, the accidental movement of the ball must be directly attributable to something that you did.

    2-On a calm day, if you had addressed the ball, and gravity then moved it, you are deemed to have caused it to move and would be penalized 1 stroke.

    3-Personally, and particularly on very short putts on #10, where I have not marked the ball before tapping in, I do NOT ground my club, or, actually say, "I am not grounding my club," so that if the ball moves, I am not dinged.
    Thanks for the answer Lyle. I have tournaments starting in 6 days so I'm trying to brush up on my rules so bear with me please

    In the 3 sentences above, if #2 is true then wouldn't a penalty be applied to a player in situation #3 regardless if he grounded the club or not? Gravity probably was the reason for the ball moving in #3 so the player gets dinged no?

    I thought of a possible band aid solution to this problem... Would it be okay to push down on my ball when placing it in front of my marker so that it won't move due to wind/vibrations/gravity? Not too hard, just enough to 'settle' the ball nice and snug. I wouldn't want the ball to jump and hop when I putt it!
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  13. #13
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    Thanks for the answer Lyle. I have tournaments starting in 6 days so I'm trying to brush up on my rules so bear with me please
    And we will be watching you, particularly on the putting greens.

    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    In the 3 sentences above, if #2 is true then wouldn't a penalty be applied to a player in situation #3 regardless if he grounded the club or not? Gravity probably was the reason for the ball moving in #3 so the player gets dinged no?
    Gravity did move the ball but since I had not addressed the ball and since I did actually cause the ball to move, there would be no penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    I thought of a possible band aid solution to this problem... Would it be okay to push down on my ball when placing it in front of my marker so that it won't move due to wind/vibrations/gravity? Not too hard, just enough to 'settle' the ball nice and snug. I wouldn't want the ball to jump and hop when I putt it!
    But you would be playing the ball from a different position than from where you initially marked it. There is nothing in the Rules that allows you to press the ball lightly in to sand, ground or the putting green.

  14. #14
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    But you would be playing the ball from a different position than from where you initially marked it. There is nothing in the Rules that allows you to press the ball lightly in to sand, ground or the putting green.
    Not changing the position, just pushing down on it in its rightful position. I guess it's not allowed so I won't try it.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  15. #15
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    Not changing the position, just pushing down on it in its rightful position. I guess it's not allowed so I won't try it.
    But would you not be changing the ball's position vertically, if you pressed it into the green, even just a little?

  16. #16
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    True, it would be a little deeper in the ground and in a different position than when I picked it up to mark it.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  17. #17
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    I thought of a possible band aid solution to this problem... Would it be okay to push down on my ball when placing it in front of my marker so that it won't move due to wind/vibrations/gravity? Not too hard, just enough to 'settle' the ball nice and snug. I wouldn't want the ball to jump and hop when I putt it!


    1-2/9 Player Presses Ball into Surface of Putting Green

    Q.In replacing his ball but before putting it back into play, a player firmly presses the ball into the surface of the putting green in order to prevent it from being moved by the wind or gravity. What is the ruling?

    A.In altering the surface of the putting green, the player has breached Rule 1-2 by intentionally taking action to influence the movement of a ball in play and to alter physical conditions that affect the playing of the hole.

    In match play, the player loses the hole - Rule 1-2.

    In stroke play, the player incurs a penalty of two strokes and must play the ball as it lies - Rule 1-2. (Revised - Formerly 18-2a/6)

  18. #18
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    I guess that's out then...

  19. #19
    Founder Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    Poor Pablo. He lost the hole again.
    Life dinnae come wit gimmies so yuv got nae chance o' gitt'n any from me.

  20. #20
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Oh well. If my ball is going to move then its going to move. There doesn't seem to be a way to prevent it from happening.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  21. #21
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    Pablo is always looking for an edge, he is my hero!!
    Lefty Lucas
    I am abidextrous, I once golfed right-handed and now I shoot left-handed just as badly!

  22. #22
    President's Cup Wknd_Warrior is on a distinguished road Wknd_Warrior's Avatar
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    happened to me again today, can't believe it. After it moved, this time I had grounded my putter, I quickly hit it into the hole without thinking therebye ensuring I have to take both penalty strokes...

    I can't remember the last time I had a ball move on the green.

  23. #23
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    Pablo is always looking for an edge, he is my hero!!
    This book I read changed my life: "how i play golf" by Bill Bellicheck
    You only get out of something what you put into it

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