golf lesson - still undecided

[covanant]

I have started lessons and after only one hour,i can already see what im doing wrong.
Im looking forward to the rest of the sessions.
Will it improve my game?who knows,it may make it worse!
Bottom line for me is,im out whackin balls in winter,having fun with other students,
and time will tell.
My advise is try it,you have nothing to loose.

[Andru]

Heres a point you can't argue with (or shouldn't). In this world, there are "naturals" and "learned". The learned outnumber the naturals, otherwise there would be mozarts everywhere. CHANCES ARE, lessons are good for you. BUT MY MAJOR POINT WAS, IT CANT HURT.

I can concede more people would do better taking lessons. I never said you shouldn't take lessons, I've been consistent with that message.

Lessons can hurt if a decent move is reconstructed to something that doesn't work for this particular individual. Believe me they can hurt when you spend months trying something that just doesn't work.

In the case of Jim Furyk. His swing is posted on golf digest you be the judge yourself. Other than the obvious positions that our human anatomy will force us in to. He looks very different than the others. Even through impact.

[Andru]

Quote from Andru:

"1) Your hands should be ahead of the ball at impact.
2) The Club face should be square at separation
3) I didn't actually believe this one but I'm starting to. You should approach the ball from the inside."

Question for Andru:

If I can't do 1) and 3) after a few years of trying (even though I play to a 13 handicap which I thought I'd be happy with coming from the 30s!), what would you recommend? Keep slogging it out? Or get some instruction?

Since I have some bad habits that I can't correct on my own, I am taking lessons.

Over and out.

I've never said one should never take lessons.

[beatnik58]

I do understand your poin Andru. If I can hit the ball to my satisfaction and enjoy the game why would I mess around with lessons? If I can't then lessons are a good idea.

Right?

[BC MIST]

If I can't do 1) and 3) after a few years of trying (even though I play to a 13 handicap which I thought I'd be happy with coming from the 30s!), what would you recommend? Keep slogging it out? Or get some instruction?
Since I have some bad habits that I can't correct on my own, I am taking lessons.
Over and out.

Beatnik: You are not doing 1 and 3 because you may currently lack the knowledge and understanding necessary to achieve these two essential positions. You used the word "CAN"T" twice, and I am going to suggest to you very strongly, that you CAN, and it is not difficult.

Forgive me Andru, but the third essential is: the back of the left/lead hand must be flat at impact. The club face being square at separation is a function of the other 3 being achieved.

If someone shows you what you have to achieve, AND how to achieve it, doing it just takes a little time. If you try to achieve these position by hitting balls at normal speed, you may be wasting your time. Doing what you need to do in slow motion and static positions will accelerate your progress.

For example, I made some clubs for an ex NHL'er a couple of weeks ago and in watching his swing I noticed an outside in motion from the top. I showed him something and then loaned him a video of the instructor showing his student the exact same thing. (That's where I stole the idea from) Literally, in a week, the golfer was swinging with the club head approaching the ball from the inside and was he a happy camper. One does not need a professional to show you how to do this, but he should know what to tell you. You can do this yourself if you arm yourself with information that works.

If you keep doing what you are doing yourself, you are going to perfect your faults and if you eventually get the correct information it will take longer to replace the bad habit with the new, better one. So get some new information yourself or see someone who does. As I mistrust local teaching professionals, the latter may be a challenge. If you are athletic enough to be a 13 handicap now, you are good enough to be a 5 in a year or two, but you have to work at it correctly, and you CAN do it.

[beatnik58]

Beatnik: You are not doing 1 and 3 because you may currently lack the knowledge and understanding necessary to achieve these two essential positions. You used the word "CAN"T" twice, and I am going to suggest to you very strongly, that you CAN, and it is not difficult.

Well stated BC. My homemade swing only got me so far and I was putting a lot of time into grooving some bad habits. I could not seem to find a way to unlock my mind and convert the information I was getting from books, videos, the web. I decided to try lessons. Too early to report back but the pro I'm working with has managed to get the concepts through my thick skull. Now the challenge is to convert my body!

[gambit]

I might go see the instrutor today and was wondering how important it is to go with somebody who speak not as fluent in English and charges $200 for six lessons 1 hrs per lessons vs someone who speak fluent but charges $150 for 4 lessons 30 min per lessons?

[Sakuraba]

a 6 hour lesson????

[gambit]

a 6 hour lesson????

my mistake. 6 lessons, 1 hr per lesson.

[BC MIST]

Well stated BC. My homemade swing only got me so far and I was putting a lot of time into grooving some bad habits. I could not seem to find a way to unlock my mind and convert the information I was getting from books, videos, the web. I decided to try lessons. Too early to report back but the pro I'm working with has managed to get the concepts through my thick skull. Now the challenge is to convert my body!

I don't want to get into another "muscle memory" discussion , but converting your body is the least of your worries. You have to convert your mind. Get the mind right and the body will follow, 'cause it doesn't have a choice.

You have obviously done a lot of research about golf swings from what you have said above and I am sure that you are aware that a lot of this information is conflicting, in some cases downright detrimental to your mind's and your golf swing's health. Too much golf swing information is truly a dangerous thing.

IMO, the best video is by Mark Evershed, called the "Knowledge" video. ( www.t-g-s.com ) 120 minutes of Mark talking about some of the misconceptions of the swing, and about the simple fundamentals that he teaches. Mark was/is a"Golfing Machine" advocate who has converted the complications of the method into a few simple, easily learned basics.

Another sugestion is John Dunnigan "The Secret of the Golf Swing." While a couple of the positions are slightly different, it's really simple. Check out www.golfbetterproductions.com for more. A lot of free info on John's site.

[gambit]

I finally got my swing the handle dvd collection by eddie merrins. It nearly took a month for it to arrived, it's not your fault. This will probably pay for my golf lessons .

[Andru]

I do understand your poin Andru. If I can hit the ball to my satisfaction and enjoy the game why would I mess around with lessons? If I can't then lessons are a good idea.

Right?

I'll defer to BC here. Bc managed to articulate what I've been trying to say for the entire thread. I'll have to work on my delivery.

[Andru]

Forgive me Andru, but the third essential is: the back of the left/lead hand must be flat at impact. The club face being square at separation is a function of the other 3 being achieved.

I've been doing the slow motion drill for a few weeks now. It feels great. I use a heavier club though. It takes a little more effort to maintain the wrist on the way down. ) I still tend to get the club too far behind me though on the down swing. That's just a tempo issue for me.

It's a great drill.

Cheers

[footwedge]

Make sure that you take a package of lessons. You can't learn it all in one shot so space them out, say once a week for three or four weeks. Look at it as hiring a coach for a short term.

[BC MIST]

I've been doing the slow motion drill for a few weeks now. It feels great. I use a heavier club though. It takes a little more effort to maintain the wrist on the way down. ) I still tend to get the club too far behind me though on the down swing. That's just a tempo issue for me.It's a great drill. Cheers

Using the weighted club is a great idea and yes, it is more difficult to hold the angle until deeper into the downswing. That's why doing this in super slow motion is essential. I use a 3' piece of .5" copper pipe with a grip on one end, plugged in the other and filled with lead shot. I also take the club to the top of the backswing and stop dead. Without moving my arms I try to further hinge my wrists, still keeping the back of the left hand flat, before slowly swinging the club back on a line parallel to the target line and down. This may eventually give a little more flexibility in the wrist joints.

You express concern about the club head being too far behind you. From the enclosed picture of a friend, (http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?t=6497) how would you compare your position to his? Interestingly, my friend is a straight to slight draw player, 4 handicap and very consistent, however, he can also fade the ball from this same position, a ball flight I know that you like. The key is to get the shaft into "this" (http://www.golfbetterproductions.com...asp?drillID=10) position on the way down. While it may appear the the club head is too far behind the player, it is really "on plane."

[Andru]

Using the weighted club is a great idea and yes, it is more difficult to hold the angle until deeper into the downswing. That's why doing this in super slow motion is essential. I use a 3' piece of .5" copper pipe with a grip on one end, plugged in the other and filled with lead shot. I also take the club to the top of the backswing and stop dead. Without moving my arms I try to further hinge my wrists, still keeping the back of the left hand flat, before slowly swinging the club back on a line parallel to the target line and down. This may eventually give a little more flexibility in the wrist joints.

You express concern about the club head being too far behind you. From the enclosed picture of a friend, (http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?t=6497) how would you compare your position to his? Interestingly, my friend is a straight to slight draw player, 4 handicap and very consistent, however, he can also fade the ball from this same position, a ball flight I know that you like. The key is to get the shaft into "this" (http://www.golfbetterproductions.com...asp?drillID=10) position on the way down. While it may appear the the club head is too far behind the player, it is really "on plane."

From being a very "handsy" player. Ala Sergio. I lay the club off a little too much. Maybe the same distance inside as the pictures you posted but layed off a little flatter under the plane. Maybe too far inside wasn't the correct way to describe it. It causes a nasty hook or straight push on occasion. You're right I do prefer to play that cut shot.

[LeftyT]

I think that taking lessons during the winter is great to do. Unless you have a certain swing that works for you and if someone were to help you fix it, it may get worse. I am a pretty good copy cat in seeing a swing and then doing it myself. Not such a great gift. But can be handy...do whatever works for you.