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  1. #1
    Putter cadewinegar is on a distinguished road
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    Golf simulator for high-end budget?

    Hey all... First time poster, and really wanted to get some feedback from some of you that have really seen various golf simulators.

    My Dad is ready to buy a golf simulator. Space and price is not an issue. He is one who hates to buy something that doesn't have it all. If he is really going to buy something, he wants to be sure he isn't missing out on something that he will regret down the line.

    Trugolf is a local company here. We spent a good portion of the day today testing their premium model. Its 45k, a bit pricey, so I'd expect an extremely great simulator. We came away very impressed(obviously, we haven't tested any others). We LOVED that after every shot it would show us exactly what was going on. It shows ball speed, club speed, fade/draw, and what way the club was positioned at impact was the great feature as we could tell why a shot was horrible instantly. It seemed the simulator was extremely accurate for how we hit the ball. Again, the part we loved the most was the screen popping up after each hit showing us why it did what it did.

    We also found the putting to be meh. Didn't really see how that was anything close to realistic. But I can't imagine any simulator being good at realistic putting. So that's not a huge deal.

    The graphics definitely didn't blow me away, as I definitely see better graphics on my computer playing any games. And for 45k, I can't believe they wouldn't be better.

    Is this a really good simulator for 45k? Or is there something better that we should look at? Any help would be SO appreciated.

    The main thing we want is a system that is really accurate and helps us improve our swing. We loved that about what we tested today. Showing us why the shot did what it did each time was awesome. So that is something we definitely would want in any other sim. Obviously one with better HD graphics would help. Any suggestions? Or is Trugolf premium a great choice for 45k?

    Golf improvement would be the most important aspect of our purchase.

    Thank you so much!

  2. #2
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    I've played on it. Not worth the $45K IMO. Read the Trugolf thread and other simulator threads. The E6 is pathetic and extremely overrated by the industry. See my E6 review below. Check out other golf simulators.

    http://forum.OttawaGolf.com/showthre...52-E6-graphics

  3. #3
    Putter cadewinegar is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks Zmax...

    What other golf simulators should we check out that are worth 45k or more? Aboutgolf the way to go?

  4. #4
    Lob Wedge tivs31 is on a distinguished road
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    I can't really speak to the accuracy of the system, but isn't hd golf the right type of option here?

    The graphics seem great, and you can get the new wrap around screen to really immerse yourself in the feel.

  5. #5
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    Yes, check out the Aboutgolf with the 3track camera system. You do have to use their special marked balls for best accuracy.

    We have threads here for just about any simulator on the market.

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by tivs31 View Post
    I can't really speak to the accuracy of the system, but isn't hd golf the right type of option here?

    The graphics seem great, and you can get the new wrap around screen to really immerse yourself in the feel.
    Here's a thread on the HDgolf sim. http://forum.OttawaGolf.com/showthre...golf-simulator It uses photo realistic courses. Which means it won't have the very cool "chase ball" cam that is popular with 3D rendered courses such as those from Red Chain. Also, trees and objects don't move.

  7. #7
    Andisblue
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    A local golf course just setup Trugolf here. It even has pressure plates on the ground to show your weight shifting, and cameras to watch your swing for training purposes.

    Aside from the actually sim, you should buy some NICE AV equipment (projector, etc).

  8. #8
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Agree with you all. Read the Trugolf thread. i am not sure their $45K system is any more accurate than the $6K system. I would suggest at that price range About Golf, HD Golf, Golfotron and perhaps Optigolf. Otherwise stay with the Protee, GSA etc. As well consider the GC2 depending on the left right hitters.

  9. #9
    Lob Wedge markryangolf is on a distinguished road
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    I came across xgolf through this forum. I am looking at a high-end simulator as well and they have a few features that seem to be unique for the industry. Plate that shifts to the degree of lie and also an auto feeding and teeing system.

    The forum suggested that they were 70k but someone recently posted that they start at 43k, similar to trugolf, HD, Full Swing, etc.

    I am still researching as well and have not found the time to try all systems yet, but wanted to let you know of the option.

  10. #10
    Andisblue
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    Quote Originally Posted by markryangolf View Post
    I came across xgolf through this forum. I am looking at a high-end simulator as well and they have a few features that seem to be unique for the industry. Plate that shifts to the degree of lie and also an auto feeding and teeing system.
    When you say 'high-end', do you mean 'high accuracy', 'lots of bells and whistles', or just 'costs a lot'?

    From what I saw on x-golf, it doesn't measure spin, which seems to throw it on the pile with all the other simulators.

  11. #11
    Hybrid keble is on a distinguished road
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    why no ppl mentioned Trackman?

  12. #12
    3 Wood goley is on a distinguished road
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    how about flightscope.. 9500-11g for the machine then you can upgrade to turn it into a sim for another 2500 ish

  13. #13
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    There are others besides Trackman and flightscope. Pick from this thread http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...imulator-Links As far as we have it there have been very little reviews on the Trackman studio nor the Flightscope for home simulation. In fact the Flightscope X1 TBox I believe was having issues with the spin unless that was resolved. Cory????? Is there anyone who has experience with the indoor use of the Trackman or Flightscope for home simulation? I would love to hear some reviews before we include it on the list.

  14. #14
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Is there anyone who has experience with the indoor use of the Trackman or Flightscope for home simulation? I would love to hear some reviews before we include it on the list.
    You can download e6 demo and connect it to the TM, I did that. All data from the TM is transfert to the e6 software, a bit slow but it works fine. Main issue is that the TM (model II) will not work for putting nor will it pick up short and/or soft pitch and chip shots. Depending on the hight of the shot it can pick up as short as a 30 meter carry but that's it.

  15. #15
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Thanks Frans, that's what I thought. Is there a difference with the Trackman 2 and 3e? What about the Trackman Pro? How slow is a bit slow? Would love to see a short video. Do any work with short chips or putts?

  16. #16
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Thanks Frans, that's what I thought. Is there a difference with the Trackman 2 and 3e? What about the Trackman Pro? How slow is a bit slow? Would love to see a short video. Do any work with short chips or putts?
    TM III is better at picking up the shorter ball fights, IIIe is the same model but wireless. Pro is just a software version and works with model II, TPS is the other software version and works with both II and III(e). As far as I understood TM is trying to also track putting but no idea when that is going to be released nor how it's going to work.

    Slow means that the Trackman will measure the shot, let the ball fly for the full length and only after that transfers all data to the e6 software. So you hit a shot, the Pro software will let it fly for 5 seconds and then transfers the data to the e6 which will then again have the ball fly for 5 seconds

    I tested it with the Pro software not with the TPS software yet. That could make a difference as the TPS software is not taking the time to let the ball fligh but gives the data directly after the shot. Might have some time later this day to test that. Normally I'm only using the pro software so I might need to get the TPS software updated to have it running correctly.

  17. #17
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    Frans,

    Sounds like you're hitting from inside a partially enclosed hitting bay, with balls flying out into the field? I understand that when the TM is used in a room, spin axis or side spin is estimated from club path and ball path. Curious about your opinion on the accuracy of the simulated ball flight when using the TM indoors where it can't track the full ball flight.

  18. #18
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    Frans,

    Sounds like you're hitting from inside a partially enclosed hitting bay, with balls flying out into the field? I understand that when the TM is used in a room, spin axis or side spin is estimated from club path and ball path. Curious about your opinion on the accuracy of the simulated ball flight when using the TM indoors where it can't track the full ball flight.
    No, this is indoor. Indoor the spin as well as spin axis is measured. Indoor two small metal disc's on the ball are needed to allow the TM to pick up the data. I have checked the spin data from the TM using a other radar system (zelocity) and some how-brew software, The values are correct.

    If the TM can not measure the spin and axis it will calculate spin based on all other data measured and the entered club data. calculated data is presented different as measured data in the TM software.

  19. #19
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans@france View Post
    No, this is indoor. Indoor the spin as well as spin axis is measured. Indoor two small metal disc's on the ball are needed to allow the TM to pick up the data. I have checked the spin data from the TM using a other radar system (zelocity) and some how-brew software, The values are correct.
    Compared to Zelocity? You've got to be kidding me, right?

    As for spin axis, all the material that I could find from Flightscope and TM both say spin axis is calculated from the curvature of the ball flight. I know that metallic dots are put on the balls for the radar to track spin rate when indoors, but none of the material specifically say that spin axis can also be determined from the use of these dots/discs.

    Can you point to a document or specs that claim the TM can indeed determine spin axis from the use of metallic dots?

  20. #20
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans@france View Post
    TM III is better at picking up the shorter ball fights, IIIe is the same model but wireless. Pro is just a software version and works with model II, TPS is the other software version and works with both II and III(e). As far as I understood TM is trying to also track putting but no idea when that is going to be released nor how it's going to work.

    Slow means that the Trackman will measure the shot, let the ball fly for the full length and only after that transfers all data to the e6 software. So you hit a shot, the Pro software will let it fly for 5 seconds and then transfers the data to the e6 which will then again have the ball fly for 5 seconds

    I tested it with the Pro software not with the TPS software yet. That could make a difference as the TPS software is not taking the time to let the ball fligh but gives the data directly after the shot. Might have some time later this day to test that. Normally I'm only using the pro software so I might need to get the TPS software updated to have it running correctly.

    Seems a bit slow, doesn't it? Let us know if its better with the TPS software.

  21. #21
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Seems a bit slow, doesn't it? Let us know if its better with the TPS software.
    Not really slow as such, because you hit a shot and then see the ball fly within the TM software. That ball flight is almost like a "real" ball flight. Just because the data is only transfert to the e6 software after the ball has landed and the e6 software is again showing the ball flight is seems slow. Just a interface issue, but annoying indeed

    Tried the TPS sofware after an update and seems that the interface has changed. The e6 is not seeing any data from the TM. If e6 has no information about that new interface then model III users will not be able to use their TM with the e6 software because the model III only supports TPS software and not other software anymore...

  22. #22
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    That's too bad about the TPS not working with Trackman. What you are describing in E6 seems too slow for me for simulation.

  23. #23
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    Compared to Zelocity? You've got to be kidding me, right?
    No You saw my paper about the PureLaunch? You ever saw my software that I wrote for it? I'm not joking if I make statements like that!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    As for spin axis, all the material that I could find from Flightscope and TM both say spin axis is calculated from the curvature of the ball flight. I know that metallic dots are put on the balls for the radar to track spin rate when indoors, but none of the material specifically say that spin axis can also be determined from the use of these dots/discs.
    You must have been misinformed! None of the two read spin axis information from the curvation! TM reads the spin axis from the sub-radar images and the detail can be found in the patent.

    http://trackman.dk/Company/Technology-(1).aspx
    Quote Originally Posted by TM website
    Measuring spin rate of sport balls by radar using multiple harmonic spectrum traces US2009/0075744
    Measuring spin axis orientation of sport balls from trajectory measurements by radar. US2009/0075744
    FS claimed to read the seam of the ball and used that for spin axis. However in Europe there is now a patent infringment claim filled by TM against them http://trackman.dk/Media/News/patent-claim.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    Can you point to a document or specs that claim the TM can indeed determine spin axis from the use of metallic dots?
    It's even in their newsletter explaining the max ball speed and spin for each indoor ball lfight length.
    page 11 http://www.trackman.dk/download/news...ewsletter7.pdf
    Last edited by Frans@france; 10-28-2012 at 02:38 PM. Reason: add newletter link

  24. #24
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Frans what is your paper on the Purelaunch? What is the software you wrote for it? For good Sunday reading, do you have a link on the Trackman patent on how it reads spin axis?

  25. #25
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Frans what is your paper on the Purelaunch? What is the software you wrote for it? For good Sunday reading, do you have a link on the Trackman patent on how it reads spin axis?
    both the paper and the software can be found on my forum I created for it. It is also available on the google zelocity groups etc..
    http://www.launchpi.com/forum/unders...ch_topic5.html

    I have included the patent numbers in my original posting.


    PS Who do you think that guy was that found\explained the tables in the Zelocity software
    Last edited by Frans@france; 10-28-2012 at 02:44 PM. Reason: smart ass remark :)

  26. #26
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Thanks!

  27. #27
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Frans can you give us more info on the LaunchPi software? Does it make it more accurate? Does it work with the Tracker? Is Zelocit out of business?

  28. #28
    Hall of Fame ZMax is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans@france View Post
    No You saw my paper about the PureLaunch? You ever saw my software that I wrote for it? I'm not joking if I make statements like that!
    Yes. I've read your paper(clubfitter73). But why not compare the TM to a FS? Your Purelaunch can measure spin as accurate as the TM?


    You must have been misinformed! None of the two read spin axis information from the curvation! TM reads the spin axis from the sub-radar images and the detail can be found in the patent.

    http://trackman.dk/Company/Technology-(1).aspx


    FS claimed to read the seam of the ball and used that for spin axis. However in Europe there is now a patent infringment claim filled by TM against them http://trackman.dk/Media/News/patent-claim.aspx
    According to the patent:

    Description: Patents: > Comparing a target direction indicated in an image, e.g. by using a camera, with the ball direction determined by radar. (US2009/0295624, EP1763683, CN1981207B, KR7002764/2007, JP2008/504534) > Measuring spin rate of sport balls by radar using multiple harmonic spectrum traces. (US2009/0075744, EP1698380, DE602006009719.0, GB/EP/1698380, CN101384308A, JP2008/538085A and KR10/0947898) > Measuring spin axis orientation of sport balls from trajectory measurements by radar. (US2009/0075744, EP1853362, DE602006015036.9, GB/EP/1853362, CN101384308A, JP2008/538085A and KR10/0947898)

    Can you post a passage from the patent that specifically deals with determining spin axis from using metallic dots?

    It's even in their newsletter explaining the max ball speed and spin for each indoor ball lfight length.
    page 11 http://www.trackman.dk/download/news...ewsletter7.pdf
    I've read the newsletter and the section for indoors does not mention spin axis, only total spin rate.

    Now using just 10 feet (3 meters) of ball flight, TrackMan is
    able to achieve our own industry-leading standard of precision
    for measuring spin. This is a major breakthrough for indoor golf
    facilities using launch monitors. Unlike other launch monitor
    technologies that estimate or simply imply spin rate, TrackMan
    has always directly measured spin rate, in addition to club delivery.
    Now that TrackMan is able to precisely measure spin rate with a
    ball flight distance of just 10 feet (3 meters), facilities with limited
    space can now take advantage of our world-class technology.


    TrackMan co-founder and CTO Fredrik Tuxen says “Measuring
    spin directly and accurately is important for two reasons: first of all,
    knowing a golfer’s spin rate is essential when making driver fitting
    recommendations. And secondly, if you do not track the ball for
    the entire flight, as is the case indoors, the results of a ball flight
    model will be significantly impacted by the quality of the spin rate
    assumption entered in the model.

  29. #29
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    Frans can you give us more info on the LaunchPi software? Does it make it more accurate? Does it work with the Tracker? Is Zelocit out of business?
    Yes, the math behind the LaunchPi software makes ball speed/club speed/launch angle more accurate and will allow to measure spin if dots are used. It can however not overcome the bad quality of the used radar pods used.

    I never saw the tracker only the software so no idea.

    Someone made a remark in an email to me that he tried to contact them for over a month but that nobody was picking up the phone...so maybe

  30. #30
    3 Wood Frans@france is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    Yes. I've read your paper(clubfitter73). But why not compare the TM to a FS? Your Purelaunch can measure spin as accurate as the TM?
    euh and where can I find a FS ? I don't own one... Besides that using two radar unit at the same time that uses the same bandwith is not possible. The returned radar images from one beam will interfere with the reading of the other unit..

    The purelaunch can be used to measure spin within 50-90rpm of the TM. The resolution and the firmware make it a bit difficult but it was doable. I also own a other doppler radar unit but rewriting the Launchpi software for the Zelocity was much faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZMax View Post
    According to the patent:.............
    read the this one : DETERMINATION OF SPIN PARAMETERS OF A SPORTS BALL, look at figure 2

    http://www.google.com/patents?id=GzG...page&q&f=false

    Your right that the newspaper only talks about spin but...if you have the spin data then combined with the information in the patent you can see how it can pickup the axis tilt.
    Last edited by Frans@france; 10-28-2012 at 03:22 PM. Reason: add TM remark

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