Flightscope X1 TBox

[CPA]

Would have thought that would be detrimental to the X2's reputation.

[bubba22]

Thats too bad. I hope it gets tested and tweaked well.

[Par2Pro]

Yup, that's what I am working towards - I won't give up until we get this working right or until my arms fall off from testing LOL

[DickK]

I would like to report that I finally finished my golf simulator which I will describe in detail in a separate post. This post is to explain my choice in launch monitors.

After much thought and discussions with Flightscope, Foresight (the GC2 was in consideration) and Cory, I settled on the Flightscope X1 which is the same as the X2 except for setup and connections. This turned out to be a great choice as I don't know of any other way to get some of the swing parameters that I think are critical to making improvements in ones game. Basically the software tracks the club and the ball separately. Besides speed (ball and club) and launch angles (vertical and horizontal) and ballspin (rate and axis) it shows graphs of the club path in a top view, a side view and a 3D view, shows angles of impact of the head to the ball (horizontally and vertically) and much more. Since the unit is located behind the tee, it sees much more of the swing plane and displays graphs of clubhead velocity and acceleration from the backswing through impact. Also, it is out of the way and good for both left and right handed use.

For indoor use, a small metallic dot (only one) is stuck to the ball. This aids in spin measurement which is used, along with ball speed and direction, to calculate ball path (carry distance and roll). The same unit can be used outdoors where it will measure the actual full ball flight. A Flightscope tech said that they compared actual data with calculated (based on 13 feet of ball flight) and the results were very close (within a few yards). My concern was more with consistency rather than absolute accuracy and I did find that the same shot (good or bad) is treated the same way.

On another note, Flightscope is developing a putting package as an add on. Putting on a flat surface is not the same as or even close to the real thing, so putting was not a priority for me.

[ZMax]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Dickk. Can you explain a little bit about your room? and maybe post some pics of your setup.

Is this your first simulator? Did you demo the GC2 or other simulators before deciding on the Flightscope? And How would you rate the shot shaping accuracy of the simulator?

Thanks

[CPA]

Cory's video of the X1 had the unit behind the screen. Do they now put it behind the ball? How far?


Are you having the same problems as Cory?

Edit sorry confused x1 and Tbox.

[bubba22]

Yes thanks for coming on D. Give us some more details of your setup and experience thus far. The concern as ZMax points out has been the shot shaping and actual spin measurements. I do think that the setup is better for left and right hitters giving that it measures spin accurately. We just need to be convinced that is the case. The putting add on is a good idea that perhaps the GC2 should look at. Do a review and post some pics and screenshots.

[Par2Pro]

Hey Guys,

Finally got an exhaustive remote session with Flightscope - they did SOOOO many things to get this X1Tbox system working that it made my head spin lol.

Unfortunately it is still not working and they have to go to their developers in South Africa to figure this one out.

Ahhh, the joys of new technology

This may be a while but I will continue to work with them to get the best possible results from the system.

Cheers,
Cory

[bubba22]

Hopefully they sort it out soon for those who have already purchase one.

[Par2Pro]

I would love to hear the feedback from those who have already purchased one. I am wondering if I just have a defective unit.

[ZMax]

Defective? Or Perhaps they are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip?


DickK, is yours already setup and working? If so, how accurate is the swing path measurement? and Can you post pics and screen shots of it in action?

[wbealsd]

Cory, all things considered, I'm surprised they haven't shipped you another unit to ensure you have a working product. If YOU'RE having difficulty getting this to work right, how do they think that reflects on their ability to support customers that don't have your experience?

[Par2Pro]

Zmax,
Well, at first we had it working, but the side spin rate would show up as 0 for almost every second or third shot. Now it seems we just can't even get it calibrated. I may be an optimist, but it is possible that the system surged and became defective at the shop (although we do have it on a surge supressor).

Just a note that Dick purchased the X1 and not the X1Tbox and they are completely different units.

wbealsd,
My thoughts exactly - when I got in touch with the VP she apologized for the delayed rseponse and admitted that they are not really selling the system at this point (that is why it is not on their website). I am just going to remain optimistic and accept that I am one of their beta testers now I really hope we can get it working as it is a great concept.

[ZMax]

The TBox at the PGA show had the same problem, which is why I'm leaning towards a hardware limitation. My understanding of their Doppler radar system is that it does not measure spin axis, even with the metallic dot. Side spin/spin axis is estimate from club path/ball path readings.

Maybe the Tbox has difficulty measuring the club path?

[bubba22]

Good questions ZMax!

[DickK]

I just posted a detailed reply, but do not see it. If it doesn't appear I will try again in a few days. For now I will say that the X1/X2 is not the same as the X1Tbox. In order to get accurate data, the radar has to be located where it can see the complete club path through impact. Thus it has to be located behind the golfer. The Tbox was made for course simulation and putting. After talking to the support staff, I purchased the X1. Based on one hectic week of operation, I am etremely pleased. Details will follow.

I found that the spin data and axis were recorded with fairly consistent results. When a shot was bad (too low) only clubhead speed was reported along with a note that swing speed could not be measured.

[bubba22]

Let us know. DickK can you chip and put with the X1?

[Par2Pro]

Hey All,

Just got confirmation that Fligtscope is sending me another Tbox - hopefully we can get that one up and running soon

[DickK]

After living with the Flightscope X1 for over a month I have come to the following thoughts/conclusions.

1. While there is no way I could verify the accuracy of the ball flight and swing data, it is definitely good enough. By that statement, I mean that shots observed indoors (usually watching a friend) properly show up on the screen and then are consistent with actual performance on the golf course. This has allowed me to practice in relative comfort and work on grooving my swing. After a lesson, I am able to follow up with hours of indoor practice in an attempt to "lock in" muscle memory. I played yesterday and had back-to-back driver and three wood shots that were my personal best. My golfing partner and I attributed the improvement directly to the simulator. (I give my golf pro's lessons credit also.)

2. Putting on my setup doesn't exist. However, my next project will be some sort of putting range with artificial turf to better simulate real conditions. Although the Tbox shares the X1 designation, I was told it is a very different device. Unlike my setup, the X1 Tbox picks up puts, because you put towards it and it is better angled to read a rolling ball. A low shot on the X1/X2 doesn't even register. However, putting on level artificial turf is not the same as real golf greens where grain, green conditions, and elevation changes all have to be taken into account.

Chipping is fine with one caveat. The ball path often takes it above the screen. I may have to add padding on the ceiling for about two feet from the screen.

3. I think that swing data is way more important than the putting that is lost by not getting the Tbox. Swing data on the X1/X2 is shown in table form, in picture form and in graphic form. The table gives you launch angles, ball and club speed and spin data. The 'pictures' appear as sequential superimposed black and white images of the moving club head. The graphics show the club path from the side, overhead and in a 3D move (you click on it to make it move). I have been working on my swing path (in to out) and hitting the ball square off the head. This is data that you see after each shot.

3. For golf course simulation you have to buy the E6 software from TruGolf. I bought the driving range package which includes the full E6 engine (vs E6 lite) plus one golf course made up of 18 holes from famous courses. I have little experience playing on this course as my focus so far was in grooving a decent golf swing (I have only been playing for about 2 years). My first impression was that the software was too stingy on distance calculation. A call to E6 fixed this issue, as they could log in to my computer and make the necessary adjustments. My next impression was that the tee distances were too long for my age group. I usually play the "senior" tees that provide a 5,400 yard total course. However, I haven't correlated that to the tee choices on the E6. (I would hate to have to select "ladies tees"). Other courses are available for later purchase for $100 each or in packages. However, TruGolf occasionally has specials on courses that can be purchased later if you are patient.

4. Finally, golf mat selection has turned out to be difficult. While I am happy with my choice, it no way resembles hitting on actual turf. This is not a problem for a driver since the ball is hit from a tee, but sand, fairway and rough are not even closely approximated. If someone has a decent solution, I would like to hear it. Having said that, I still find that improvements made indoors can be brought to the actual course.

The bottom line is that I am happy with the choices I made. The setup is relatively easy, no sub-floor is necessary, the launch monitor is out of sight and harms way (10 feet to the rear) and lighting is not critical. Since the launch monitor will stay in one place, there was no need for an internal battery, bluetooth, protective cages, leveling devices or chargers. This took the cost of a full featured Flightscope down to $8,000 which I thought was, comparatively speaking, a bargain especially considering the other savings.

I want to thank everyone on the form that has helped my selection process. Hopefully my comments will do the same.

[bubba22]

Thanks DickK. So a worm burner shot is not picked up? What do you do for putting on the course simulation? Awesome review.

[DickK]

Thanks DickK. So a worm burner shot is not picked up? What do you do for putting on the course simulation? Awesome review.

Thanks for the complement.
When you get within putting range the software adds puts depending on distance to the pin. This makes the approach shot very important.

[bubba22]

Cool! So worm burners are missed though?

[Par2Pro]

1. Great review Dick! Have you tried any of the hitting surfaces from Custom Design Golf? They have a multi surface option that may work for you. My experience with those surfaces has been ok, but I found that it does not last a long time. Maybe we can get you into the PGA show again in January and you can checkout all of the different hitting surfaces there

2. For anyone wanting Dick's setup, X1, X2, X1 Tbox with E6 software, or even just the Flightscope Product, you can contact me at cory@par2pro.com and I can help you get it all from one source without having to dig around.

3. I am hoping to have the Flightscope line on my website soon, but I want to finish testing the X1Tbox (I am hoping to test the replacement unit out this week).

Happy Golfing,
Cory

[bubba22]

Any further reviews Cory? Just to understand, are worm burners missed? As well you can't putt?

[Par2Pro]

Hey Bubba,

I am testing the X1Tbox whereas Dick is using the X1 - these are two completely different systems so I am not sure if you are getting the two mixed up.

The X1Tbox CAN read putts, the X1 cannot. The X1Tbox CAN read worm burners wheras Dick says that his X1 cannot (I haven't tested worm burners on the X1 but it makes sense in how the unit reads the ball).

Here is my current situation on the X1TBox - I received a replacement unit just before I left for my San Diego / Vegas trip and at that time I had to move out of my main demo center in Sherwood Park due to a 'hostile takeover' of the building that we were in (basically had to do with a messy divorce of the owners).

When I got back I took the X1Tbox to my Edmonton Demo Center (which is always so busy with equipment testing / clubfitting / sales, etc.) and had a very limited time to test it out. However, the limited testing gave us strange results and we would still get a 0 sidespin every 4th or 5th shot.

So now I am going to test it out with my home setup, but due to the baby, I have a VERY small window for testing between spending time with him and when he sleeps. I am hoping that I can do more testing this week and work with Flightscope to find out what is going on here.

Clear as mud? LOL

Hope everyone else is getting a chance to get out golfing

Cheers,
Cory

[bubba22]

I knew you were testing X1Tbox Cory but for whatever read on thought you had the X1 as well. My Bad. Sorry about th Demo centre. Keep us posted with th X1T. Seems better for simulation than the X1. All those with the X1, does it register worm burner or low shots?

[Par2Pro]

Ahhh that makes sense now bubba

Thanks for the note on the demo center, we were very shocked and disappointed. If anyone in Edmonton has a space for us (for little or no rent), please let me know.

Went to test the TBox today and am having the same connection problems as before and the tech support said he will have to have someone call me to figure this one out. So once again it may be a little while before I can post any test results.

On that note, I am looking to setup a swing robot (or a similar device) so that I can test these systems more consistently. If anyone out there knows of a robot for sale or has any blueprints for a simple (or complex) robot, I would definitely be interested. Please email me at cory@par2pro.com.

Happy Golfing!
Cory

[bubba22]

That would be a great idea for Cory to do some independent testing. I will keep my eye open for you Cor. How much space are you looking for in the demo centre?

[Par2Pro]

Thanks Bubba. Yes, I would love to have the world's first open testing center where we can have all of the systems (or at least the major ones) in one place that can be tested by a robot as well as anyone else who wants to come down to test and compare

Ideally I would like to have 3 or 4 bays, but even just one bay that we can switch systems up would be a good start. My Sherwood Park demo center had 2 bays which was great. My Edmonton Demo center just has one bay right now, but it is always busy with club demos which makes it hard for me to get in there. If I can have 1 bay that is only used for testing the sims, then it would work, but if we have to pay for the space, then we would need to offer lessons and virtual golf to cover the rent, etc. - then the testing period is limited again and would have the same situation as my current center in Edmonton lol.

[bubba22]

I see. Please if there is any Edmonton folks out there that can help Cory in some way, contact Cory or myself. He is a great guy that has helped tonnes of folks and in a lot of cases for free. Any information on a space to setup a simulator testing center OR info on a golf swing robot let us know!