Bearbrook

[TLB]

Is 'The BEAR' still online ? Perhaps you can give us an idea of what is going on ?

[Kilroy]

"The Bear" was part of the Norman team. What is going on is simple. The Norman group is no longer there and the original owners have retaken posession of the course. Not much more to it than that unless you are hoping for someone to disclose the details of the problems they had. That isn't going to happen, and it's really none of our business.

[justdoit]

Wow,shocked to hear this news,played last Friday and all seemed to be going well,joked around with the Marshall,super nice guy,the whole staff was great.Now the old owners are back.?? Give me a break !

[Gofish2]

I think it only fair to give the course(and the owners)a chance. I have really enjoyed my games there and will continue to go back unless conditions deteriorate.

[HDMI]

Before everybody jumps on the bandwagon and starts beating on the "new owners" I think you should all sit back and take a deep breath. I am quite sure that they would have preferred having Norman Golf continue. But, the same as if you own a house, miss payments and the banks takes it back. Lets give Ron and the rest of the family a chance to move forward with the course...

[holeinone]

Played there for the first time this morning. 5 hour round. I will definitely not be going back.

I disagree that this track has potential. Just a very boring layout imo.

[HDMI]

Played Sunday and was off the course before noon. A little more than 3.5 hours. I guess it depends on who is in front of you and how many balls you loose.


And of course there are no Windmills ......

Played there for the first time this morning. 5 hour round. I will definitely not be going back.

I disagree that this track has potential. Just a very boring layout imo.

[big mac]

I played there today---and the place was packed BUT the same old attitude was back. 4 hr 10 minute round.-----sure hope someone continues the work---I doubt it will be the old owners------they didn't know what to do before---what makes you think they will do it now------I had a conversation with the son last year and they have no interest in it---that is why it was for sale in the first place. I spoke to a few members and they are really disappointed. The greens were in great shape and being cut but the fairways were as hard a rock---no one's fault. The Norman group had done a great job.

[HDMI]

Does anyone know if they have opened up the kitchen yet ?????

[Kiwi]

WOW---now that is a shock to the system !!!!! Really don't know what to say--------a major dissappointment for all us east enders. With all the improvements that were being made the course was making believers out of a lot of people---sure hope a solution can be found very quickly-----------wonder if all the newer equipment stays or goes ???????

Just got back from 10 days away (no phone/internet/news) and thought I'd check in... WOW!! How sad for all concerned. The new owners seemed to be very upfront and trying their best. I think they set the bar pretty high as far as communicating with us (here on the Forum) and whatever happens now, I hope that other courses see the value in the informal, informative and regular Forum posts. All the best to "The Bear" folks and thanks for your efforts!

[HDMI]

I just called Bearbrook and it seems that the owners have hired back Eric from Normand golf to help run the pro shop.... Great move on their part

[big mac]

That's good news----now with the rain we have had let's hope things contunue in the right direction. With all the comments regarding the economy etc in the other posts----it won't take a lot to lose all the momentum that the Norman group had started. I did play last week and the parking lot was filled---lets hope someone is listening.

[sebber]

I just called Bearbrook and it seems that the owners have hired back Eric from Normand golf to help run the pro shop.... Great move on their part

Yep, Eric is my bro in law, used to be at Hammond, and I can tell you first hand, he is not your typical 19 year old. Very attentive to detail, customer service oriented and motivated to have the course do well. With the recent turn of events he was offered more responsability, how much he takes on will depend on how things go once University kicks back in but you can guarantee that dealing with him will be pleasant. What he can control (pro-shop, bookings etc) should be in good shape... what he cannot control (course maintenance, etc) is another story!

[imozzie]

I played this week and was extremely pleased to see Eric back behind the desk. He is a pleasure to deal with and, indeed, customer oriented.

What I was not so pleased to see is that which is out of his control. On a lovely weekday afternoon... not one single individual working on anything on the course!!! Under the Norman Group situation, that to me was the most positive sign of great things to come - workers on every hole, cutting grass, filling holes, watering, trimming trees and bushes etc. etc.

Unfortunately, this does not bode well for a good outcome. I was seriously thinking of a membership at this course for next year...however, if it slips back into the old system of course management and maintenance, I am afraid that I'll be looking elsewhere.

[birdy_chaser]

Imozzie, I am in the same boat !!! thought of becoming a member but not likely. The recent rain has been a saving grace for this club but the fact remains, there is no one working !!!! I do believe all of the work the old management has done will soon start to go on the wayside, and I'm not saying this to slam the course, it's just that there is no one maintaining what was done. Greens where still in good shape on wednesday but how long will it last. The fairways are the same, not good yet. Will they get better ?????

Eric, is one great kid !!! without him this place would not be what it is. I hope they are paying him well !!!!!

[HDMI]

Long before the Norman group showed up Bearbrook was known to have some of the best greens in the area. Now over the past couple of years they have fallen off but to say it was the Norman group who made these greens is just not so. And yes, I do beleive you made that comment to slam the course. Ron and Todd have taken the course back, The least we can do is to give them some rope to see if they hang or run with it.

Imozzie, I am in the same boat !!! thought of becoming a member but not likely. The recent rain has been a saving grace for this club but the fact remains, there is no one working !!!! I do believe all of the work the old management has done will soon start to go on the wayside, and I'm not saying this to slam the course, it's just that there is no one maintaining what was done. Greens where still in good shape on wednesday but how long will it last. The fairways are the same, not good yet. Will they get better ?????

Eric, is one great kid !!! without him this place would not be what it is. I hope they are paying him well !!!!!

[imozzie]

Long before the Norman group showed up Bearbrook was known to have some of the best greens in the area. Now over the past couple of years they have fallen off but to say it was the Norman group who made these greens is just not so. And yes, I do beleive you made that comment to slam the course. Ron and Todd have taken the course back, The least we can do is to give them some rope to see if they hang or run with it.

HDMI - with all due respect, you must be a current member with time and money already invested in the course...and thus, I suggest, are somewhat bias with your comments.

For those of us who had considered becoming members based on the clearly evident improvements in the course over the last few months due to the enormous amount of invested MANPOWER finally being directed toward such improvements, no sign of anyone 'working' the course - not just cutting grass - is simply an unbias and truthful observation. If you consider this to be 'slamming' the course, then you're going to be in for rude awakening when the current membership fades away (I understand from existing members that I have played with in recent weeks that such is already the trend) with no new members to fill-in due to course conditions.

[HDMI]

One thing is that we can agree to disagree.

I am not a member although I have been a member there at least twice. I cannot afford any of my time or money at this moment or in the past.

And like you, I also have played with current and past members since Ron has taken back the course. One might be surprised as to the number of past members who are going back next year. They are waiting for Ron to come out with the costing for an early bird. Some have already paid in advance.

So like I said ..... we agree to disagree..

regards,

HDMI - with all due respect, you must be a current member with time and money already invested in the course...and thus, I suggest, are somewhat bias with your comments.

For those of us who had considered becoming members based on the clearly evident improvements in the course over the last few months due to the enormous amount of invested MANPOWER finally being directed toward such improvements, no sign of anyone 'working' the course - not just cutting grass - is simply an unbias and truthful observation. If you consider this to be 'slamming' the course, then you're going to be in for rude awakening when the current membership fades away (I understand from existing members that I have played with in recent weeks that such is already the trend) with no new members to fill-in due to course conditions.

[Roberts bru]

Well it didn’t take long (basically 2 weeks) for Bearbrook to return to its old ways & realize that things will never change, played last Friday &*the signs of going back to the old ways were becoming evident, played yesterday & it was like Lynne & her team had never set foot there.* The old Bearbrook was evident again, broken down golf cart on #1 (BTW all old carts are back) , the T box on # 4 had the grass cut around the tee makers rather than just moving them, obviously using the old machinery again because grass looks terrible, uneven everywhere/grass clippings all over the place.* I will say that the greens are still in decent shape except for the areas where the old greens mower gave us great lines to follow when putting.* As for the clubhouse that HAD potential, no more online booking..clubhouse is a ghost town; no more kitchen, get to buy tees out of a lunch baggie AGAIN, don’t see anyone out maintaining the course…rumour has it that they kept a couple of*staff members to cut the grass; at least Eric at the desk is back which is one good thing.* It really pains me to be so negative & I understand business & when a company purchases a business that they have to follow the guidelines of the contract set out & it appears that the Norman Group (at least the ownership part of it & not staff they hired) didn't hold up their end of the deal so the former owners had no choice but to try and salvage the rest of this year BUT it doesn’t take a genius to see that in just 2 weeks the place has gone back to the old days.* It’s like 2 different golf courses in just 2 weeks time, it’s very sad & I really feel for the remaining maintenance staff that have nothing to work with.*I get that some changes had to be made & maybe $$$ was being wasted in some areas but to get rid of all the staff & equipment that had made Bearbrook a place where people were actually going back to again. It's really too bad because the whole place was coming along and the future was looking good, now the future does not look good.

[birdy_chaser]

I have to agree with you Roberts bru. The signs are all there. HDMI, i have to disagree with you, saying "Bearbrook was known to have some of the best greens in the area". I think you should venture away from bearbrook for a few rounds and play else where, you are going to be in for a treat.

They most unfortunate thing about this whole thing is that when the hit the fan, and the old owners took over, the rains came. Now it's green everywhere and the grass is growing. it would have been nice to see a full crew manicuring this course with the conditions we have now. BUt ........ back to the same old !! hate to sound like a broken record but .... i don't see this place getting much better. Like Roberts bru said, nice lines on the greens to put with. WHO is cutting the greens ????

[ericpaquette]

I must say that I really appreciate all the encouraging comments that have been posted regarding my work at the Bearbrook Golf Course, but I can’t take credit for everything. Opening a golf course on busy Saturday with no staff, no point of sales, no inventory and no reservation system (that we’re all taken away late Friday night) is not an easy task. The McHugh Family worked together non-stop to get everything ready and did their best to pull it off.

I will try to answer as many questions as possible in one post, however if I forget your question do not hesitate to repost your question. There is not much that I can say about what happened, in fact to this point, the president of the corporation, is most likely still in the dark on what happened exactly. In brief, the course was leased to the Norman Golf Management Group (not sold). The deal was not signed, an agreement could not be made by the deadline and the corporation was behind on the rent, which gave no other choice to the previous owners (taking back the course).

Many are now aware that the McHugh family have hired me to help manage the golf course for the remaining months of 2012 season. It is with great pleasure that I have accepted this challenge. I will contribute new ideas to the table and will continue in Lynne’s footsteps. I have learned TONS from her and from other great managers and will be looking to apply my knowledge to enhance your experience at the Bearbrook Golf Course.

For example, hiring marshals and starters to make sure that the course operates smoothly and that proper golf etiquette is followed. The online reservation system is back in place. Tournaments are still taking place such as the intersectional and etc. No worries if you had given a deposit to the Norman Group, the current owners will take the beating for it by deducting it from your final invoice on the day of your tournament. I will be working on a website for the course that will have all the info concerning green fees and memberships shortly. On top of that, all the coupons that have been handed out are still valid!
I will be reading this forum on a regular basis to gather suggestions that will hopefully be beneficial for the course. Also, please visit the ‘Course Specials’ page to get a good deal on a tee-time for this Monday!

As far as not having many employees working on the course on the long weekend Monday, from a business perspective this is not a good idea. It’s very busy, which means very little work can get done. A 15 min. job quickly becomes a 45 min. job. Let’s also keep in mind that it is impossible to please everyone. In fact, in the past months, complaints we’re made about having staff working on the grounds too much. Moreover, some members we’re saying that the course was getting too busy for their liking.
As far as staff goes, some have been re-hired, and knowing them, they will do their very best to maintain the decent course conditions that we have currently. The new machinery had to go back to the company from which it was leased, due to payment issues and such. However, after a certain amount of work and time, the current machinery should be up to standards in no time.

Hope to see you all on the course very soon before the summer ends!

Cheers!

Eric Paquette

[HDMI]

Well said...

Beating up on a course when no one knows the "real issues" is no fair to the course. Hopefully this will all come out in the wash and BearBrook will continue to move forward.

regards,

[imozzie]

In fact, in the past months, complaints we’re made about having staff working on the grounds too much. Moreover, some members we’re saying that the course was getting too busy for their liking.

Eric - tx much for placing some of the facts on the table. There's nothing like facts to stop rumours.

The reflection that you've provided of comments/complaints received from members and others regarding '...staff working the grounds too much' and '...the course getting too busy for their liking' would indicate to me that these comments are made by individuals who clearly do not understand golf or golf as a business.

Quite simply, if well managed, it is impossible for staff to work the grounds 'too much'. Either the work needs to be done or it doesn't. If it doesn't and is still being done, it isn't well managed.

In the case of Bearbrook, there was and remains tons of work to be done. As indicated by all of the comments in this thread - having the workers visibly working on such improvements was an EXTREMELY positive sign of progress AND was showing results in course condition and playability. And those improvements in course condition and playability led to increased course traffic.

There are only so many hours of playable time in a day and only so many foursomes that can be placed into each hour. Again, if well-managed (i.e. appropriate spacing, starters, marshalling etc.), it is IMPOSSIBLE for a course to be 'too busy'??? 'Busy' - yes. 'Too busy' - no. And, in the golf business, busy means revenues, revenues means further investment capability and such investment back into the course means better course conditions and amenities for patrons - be they members or otherwise?

There appears to be clearly two camps - those who see the course in its true potential as a quality public course which could become a serious player in serving the Ottawa Region golf community and those who see it as a small community-based golf course. In Ottawa's highly competitive and increasingly expensive golf operations environment, one can only hope that in the case of Bearbrook the latter business model will prove to be of success.

[big mac]

Well said Imozzie and Eric thanks for the details------------as was said before it was none of our business BUT it helps to know some of the facts-----after all it WILL be us that continue to pay to play.

It all come down to this----the old owners were shown very well how to run a course and it showed very quickly. It will not be turned around in one year. IF the money needed to make Bearbrook a golf course is spent there will be no problem---BUT if it goes back to what it was----well there is only one person to blame------if the interest or the passion is not there to operate the business as it should be run--------then sell it and move on.

Who knew there were going to be tight times this summer? I think the turnout was great considering previous years. There IS enough business around---just give the patrons what is expected After all we are all not Phils and Tigers. We all just want to play in decent conditions.

[RIC]

Well, the club championship is in the books and must that the course played ok considering. I don't want to start bashing and criticizing but to answer to some of Eric's points, YES; the old management did rehire some of the staff. That makes for a total of 2 full time and two part time maintenance crew. The best grounds keeper complains that he has to work 60 to 80 hours a week to keep up???? NO KIDDING!!! Since the fall out, the greens have been watered ONCE!! Nothing else has been watered. We did get rain but not enough, although it looks awesome seeing a lot of green out there ....but it must be maintained.

Lots of business, if not too much? is good!!. More money made, the more to be spent on the course but I don't think that will happen here. The tee boxes are long again, rough is not cut, uneven, now don't get me wrong, I like rough on a course but it has to be kept under control. (first cut, second cut )Greens are very hard again??

The unfortunate thing here is, the course is set up to become a really nice public track, all you have to do is maintain what has been started, but it will not get done with the staff in place. You can have all of the starters, marshals and great customer service like Eric (who by the way is awesome at what he does)but unless you do the "maintenance" it will go back to what it was.

I may sound bitter, but being member, I have endured and lived with the past conditions and enjoyed playing the bear. It is inexpensive, has a great layout and I’ve made some very good friends there, but after getting a little taste of what could have been, it's kind of disheartening seeing all the work done this year go for not !!

[HDMI]

It truly makes one wonder just how much work ,staff and hardware the Norman group would have done if they paid the bills prior to obtaining all of the above.

[Weazl]

A truly sad story.

[imozzie]

It truly makes one wonder just how much work ,staff and hardware the Norman group would have done if they paid the bills prior to obtaining all of the above.

There is an assumption that in not paying rent it was thus the Norman Group who defaulted on the agreement. I would suggest to you that such may simply be an effect as opposed to a cause in this unfortunate situation for all concerned. As indicated above, there was no signed agreement...a deal could not be reached by the deadline imposed. One would have to ask what liability one would have against an agreement that didn't lawfully exist (i.e. pay rent)?

[Kilroy]

Let's keep this discussion limited to the course and leave the legalities out of it going forward please.

[ericpaquette]

Well said Kilroy. There is really no point in asking questions regarding legalities, since no information will be given from those truly involved.