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03-04-2012 02:44 PM #31
What about adding a trigger delay for the ball spin cam after the club cam is triggered? I suspect the hcam/vcam will require a separate trigger for sure. Are you looking at the spin cam now?
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03-04-2012 02:47 PM #32
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I think there are a lot of challenges with trigger delays, but don't really know for sure. I'm "looking" at the spin camera, but I won't purchase it until I know GSA is using the data correctly.
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03-04-2012 02:57 PM #33
Good point about the spin cam. What is used to trigger the spin cam then? To accurately measure the spin, one would need to know the exact trigger time for that 2nd capture. The first capture I assume with the GSA is the ball still before or just at club impact. The second is the ball moving. Just as we discussed before is it more accurate to messure spin with A) ball still and one capture moving vs B) 2 shots of ball moving ?
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03-04-2012 03:07 PM #34
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exactly. This says it all....
http://www.golfsimfactory.com/BallSpinCamSetup.html
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03-04-2012 03:18 PM #35
Yep. I still think it is more accurate to have 2 shots with the ball moving to get spin vs only 1 shot after its hit. What do you guys think?
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03-04-2012 03:19 PM #36
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Sorry for the delay in posting. Here is the email from Martin re the 2nd line Scan camera;
thank you for your interest in our golf simulators.
In answer to your question:
Yes you can use your own mat but the trigger circuit board would have to be integrated into it.
That would require either the mat to be raised or the flooring beneath it to be lowered a couple of inches and you would need to drill or cut-out two small holes in it for the 2 optical sensors.
Let me know if this would work for you.
best regards
Martin Gardiner (President)
Golf Simulators of America
From: ME
Sent:
Subject: Re: CX5
No it would not work. I use a truestrike gel mat.
Any other way to trigger?
only with a $2000 line scan camera I’m afraid.
Martin
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03-04-2012 03:21 PM #37
Need details as to how he will trigger the club and ball cam with the line scan camera???
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03-04-2012 03:31 PM #38
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l did not go into that with him.
With all the potential issues the ease of a GC2 is looking pretty good.
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03-04-2012 03:36 PM #39
Yes the GC2 is easy to use for sure. For me its the club data that I want. I have a tendency to really come inside with my driver and close the face with a strong grip. I love seeing the club data. Having the spin data will just verify what the club data would translate to for the spin. Having both club and ball is the best of both worlds!
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03-04-2012 03:57 PM #40
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Ok, now you're looking at using 2 more line scan cameras for a total of 3. That brings the price to $12K. You could use a TX trigger for the LA and H-cam to save some money. The total price is still a lot less than the GC2+HMT+85 courses. But the GC2 is obviously a lot easier to setup.
mmlincon, do you know how fine the line scan camera's resolution can be set? I suspect it would need to be very precise if you want accurate and consistent club measurements.
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03-04-2012 04:22 PM #41
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My understanding is the Cx5 already has 1 line scan camera only need 1 more so price is $10, 000
the extra line scan camera replaces the mat to trigger the ccam
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03-04-2012 04:27 PM #42
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03-04-2012 04:30 PM #43
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Yeah, way too many line scan cameras unless they get real cheap which isn't likely to happen. There just isn't the demand to drive the prices down.
Theoretically the line scan camera can be set to whatever you need. Although for triggering a club I can't see why you'd need one with 2048 pixels. There might be a most cost effective model out there. Who knows? Most line scan cameras are used for automation in factories and product validation. I don't think the current line scan camera from GGS was really ever thought to be used for club. Think this was more of an after thought because someone inquired about it. If there was enough interest I'd bet Martin would come up with something else. I just don't find the sensor pad to be an issue.
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03-04-2012 04:33 PM #44
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03-04-2012 04:33 PM #45
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03-04-2012 05:13 PM #46
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Now I understand. Martin must have been too busy and meant to say 2 line scan cameras at $4000!
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03-04-2012 05:13 PM #47
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Mmlincon, based on what I can tell, the cx3 is basically the equivalent of a px5 but instead of the px2 there is a club cam. The club cam from your experience has proven more accurate. Does that about sum it up?
2 additional questions. 1. Did the putting become more accurate/realistic with your cx3 setup. 2. Anything special needed when both Lefties and righties play at the same time.
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03-04-2012 05:47 PM #48
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The putting is great, dependent on your surface of course, and would be the same on both. This might be slightly better if you went with the Line scan camera instead of the trigger. Basically no slot to put over, but it doesn't really effect the putt.
With cCam you will have to create profiles which would be custom calibrations for each players clubs. Once it's setup then there is nothing you need to do. The profile would be pulled from GSA when a player is making a shot. The left and right aspect would be part of the players profile.
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03-04-2012 06:10 PM #49
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How does Vector Pro manage to capture LA, Azimuth and spin without triggers everywhere?
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03-04-2012 06:10 PM #50
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03-04-2012 06:29 PM #51
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IMO, the biggest accuracy advantage of the club cam might be the club path measurements, especially with the photographic evidence. The club face measurement should also be more accurate then the sensor mat mainly because it won't have to deal with the curvature of the clubs. The key word is should.
I've mentioned this before but the issue is with when the club face gets measured. The club cam is not really measuring the face angle at the point of impact. It's done at the point of trigger(before impact) and after impact. You are making adjusts for the dots not being square on the face. It's the best the system can do at this time. And I'm probably only talking about a +/-1 to 1.5 off at most, which might still be better than the sensor mat. The sensor mat also has to deal with the club face being measured just before impact.
Splitting hair aside, when Protee and GSA add spin measurements, it will be a game changer!
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03-04-2012 06:35 PM #52
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03-15-2012 08:01 PM #53
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Update on CX5: I've been lurking around for a year wanting to build my sim, but just procrastinated. (paralysis by analysis) Well I finally took the first step and built my walls over the weekend. (turned out nice). I'm probably going to get Cory's Hq screen, and I am about 97% ready to pull the trigger on a MODIFIED CX5 ( I guess technically a cx4) with Martin.
I too visited his shop in Florida about a year ago. Had a different experience. It seemed like he wanted to do business and was attentive. I've been back and forth on email with him over the last few days and he's responded relatively quickly. I found a dirt cheap line scan cam and sent him the link...he looked at the cam, and sent a detailed reason why it wouldn't work. I also asked him how the Ball Spin Cam will be triggered, and it sounds like it will come from the Ccam mat.
My system will consist of the H,V,Ccam and spin cam. Instead of the Line scan trigger, I will have the TX optical sensor installed. All this for a little more than a Protee or PX5. (discount for not using a credit card) Free shipping too.
I'm posting this to see if anyone will talk me out of it, but I think it's a pretty good deal.
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03-15-2012 08:22 PM #54
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Did Martin tell you that the spin cam works with GSA? Do you consider yourself a computer or an electronics geek?
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03-15-2012 08:35 PM #55
My advice is to get all the details of what's working etc with Martin. I do think it is a work in progress. Does GSA accept spin data yet?
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03-15-2012 10:01 PM #56
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I forgot to mention...I did ask him how the spin would work when GSA didn't accept the spin #'s. See below.
Hi Eric,
in answer to your questions:
1. Still doing some final tests on the ball spin camera image processing. Should be be ready in a week or so though.
CX5 is with camera club tracking and this works great. GSA Golf will process the spin data with the next update. At present it’s just being displayed in the after shot analysis window for GSA Golf.
2. Yes, that would be the CX3 plus the Ccam camera. Ccams are $1699 extra.
3. in a couple of weeks.
4. Let me know what line scan camera you have found and I will then be able to tell you if it works.
5. 10% discount if paying direct wire
Please don’t hesitate to get back to me if you have any other questions.
Regards,
Martin
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03-15-2012 10:04 PM #57
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@Zmax...I wouldn't consider myself a computer nerd, but there is pretty much nothing I can't do, except hit a golf ball straight consistently.
I am pretty handy/tecky and feel pretty comfortable that I should be able to make all of the parts and pieces work nicely together.
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03-15-2012 10:12 PM #58
Well go for it wiggle. Good luck and enjoy. Keep us posted!
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03-15-2012 10:58 PM #59
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03-16-2012 10:19 AM #60
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I heard the same thing from Martin - about a week. That is the same thing he said about the club cam and it took closer to a month. It has been progressively getting better and better however. I actually shot a 76 at the Gut course ( can't remember the full name ) which is very representative of my game. On my setup the clubcam is reading the club head speed really low when calibrated per the instructions. This maybe related to my lens/lighting combo. I've ordered the lens Martin is using to see if it helps. The one benefit to this is it reduces the amount of spin that is used by GSA which provides more realistic ball flight. IMO the spin rates in GSA are way too high. Anyway, the spin cam is looking so close I can taste it!
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