Cx5...yes I tried the search function.

[Tracy C]

Against my better judgement, I've narrowed my decision down to the px5 I think. I live on the west coast and made arrangements to go see martin in Florida and boy was I not impressed. After spending on an extra flight, rental and hotel, He still feels no need to follow up as promised.

But I digress. With the wealth of knowleddge here on the site, I feel somewhat comfortable buying a system from him knowing that he will probably provide zero support. With that being said, why is there not much more talk on his cX5?

An all camera system once set up should give better data to analyze, one wouldn't have to build up the floor to incorporate the sensors, be able to hit from anywhere(?) and he claims on his site that it measures ball spin. (based on what I'm reading here however this is probably not a true statement)

Am I missing something? Wouldnt the cx5 make for a more robust system than the px5?

[ZMax]

At the moment, the CX5 requires a special hitting mat. You can hit from other surfaces but you need to hit from the special mat if you want club data and ball spin to be measured. A forum member was told by Martin that another Line Scan camera can be added to replace the special mat. I'll believe it when I see it.

The CX5 is a very complicated system. Some people find it difficult to set up just the LA camera. mmlincon has been using the club cam. Perhaps he will chime in on whether it's ready for prime time. The ball spin cam might not be finished as I don't see the spin data being shared with GSA golf yet.

Martin has a habit of putting stuff on his site with a buy it now button even though it's not ready. The CX5 might all be finished and working but I will error on the side of caution.

Not sure how technical you are but you should not be counting on support from this forum. Especially on a CX5 system that nobody here owns. Martin should be your support.

You should consider starting with a less complicated system. You can add more cameras or components later.

[bubba22]

Wise words ZMax. So let me understand Tracy C, you flew to meet Martin, were not impressed but still want to buy a GSA product. Be careful with what is advertised with the GSA as ZMax says. If you are techy then it's great. ZMax advice is perfectly honest.

[wbealsd]

I've been on this forum for just a short time and as far as computers go, have been in the field for about 25 years so I guess I'm a techie in that regard. I'm still in the research phase, as I had no idea what was available just a couple of months ago. About the only decision I've made so far is, that I'm going to buy my system from Cory because he's exactly the opposite from your experience with Martin. I plan on flying from South Dakota to visit him at his shop in a few weeks because one of the most important factors in my mind when making what will be a fairly MAJOR purchase for me, is the support from the vendor I buy it from.

This forum is great, and I'd be lost without it, but if a major issue arises after purchase, I value a vendor I trust more than anything else.

[syhlif32]

Did you see the CX5 in action when you went to Florida?

[Tracy C]

@ bubba22. Yes, I know. Kind of sounds dumb to buy from Martin for me. I'll clarify a little. I was impressed with the sim, just not his business/customer service prowess.

After reasearching sims I just keep coming back to his. I would love to have a cam based sim so that I can have a flat floor with no build up for sensors. I would like to be able to hit from anywhere in my sim.

I've looked at the sports coach. Cory had a pretty nice special on his site but based on my reading here, it's probably not going to be as accurate as I would like and the interface appears too cartoonish. Cory also had the bogolf but it too looks to come up short. I've waited this long, so maybe I just keep on waiting til an affordable and viable camera based sim becomes available.

[bubba22]

Well good luck. Why not look at the GC2?

[Tracy C]

@syhlif32 No. When I made my trek. I didnt know that the cx5 existed. He had the px5 set up. Come to mention it, he had to tinker around with the in floor trigger to get it to work. What's weird is he didn't seem to know what the problem was. He had to call a guy from the back to help get it going.

Now that I've done all of the reading here, I find out that he is the 'mad scientist' of the op. When I was there, he just came across as some flaky salesman that didn't know much.

[bubba22]

Look at the GC2!
Martin is a Mad Scientist and really does know his stuff.

[Tracy C]

Well good luck. Why not look at the GC2?

I have Bubba22. I am a mid handicapper and looking for a sim that can really help groove my swing. Accordingly I'd want/need path and face tracking.

As an aside, it makes me furious that I can go out and fire an 82 one day, and the very next a 92.

[bubba22]

Your the dudes that I hate playing in match play! Just be careful with the GSA promises. The CX5 seems good but no one here has it. Not proven like the GC2. Is club data a must for you?

[Tracy C]

Your the dudes that I hate playing in match play! ... Is club data a must for you?

Yeah, tell me about it! I think it's a must have. I know about the physics of the the golf swing and ball flight. When I start going south I'd like to be able to duplicate the shot in my sim. On the course it feels right, but I think I can really fix my problem if I could see the path and face at impact and then just drill it home so that I become more consistent.

You 4's and 5's prolly can't understand the true frustration of a 12 that should be way more consistent. (ok you probably do, but you get the picture)

[Tracy C]

@ bubba22. Why don't you and Zmax start a company with Protee's business savvy, martin's vision with about golf's r/d?

I'd buy from you...just sayin.

[bubba22]

Why not get the PX5 or the Protee? The flooring is a non issue. Its just a mat on the approriate plywood build up. No biggie at all. The sensor mat is a Fiberbuilt mat which has a great feel. I just played real 3 rounds in Florida and come to the realization that there is no perfect mat to mimick the real thing. That's a fact!!!! At the range I absolutely hate hitting off mats vs real grass. So indoors it doesn't matter if its the Trustrike vs Fiberbuilt vd Durapro vs Realfeel vs Divot action etc, they all are not real!!! The club data with the sensors is cheaper and valuable for me. Adding spin is perfect. The GC2 has the HMT but its pricey. The GC2 alone however is a great unit, you just don't get club data!!

[syhlif32]

You will have to make some compromises with the simulators, all of them.
None of them are perfect and give you all the options you want.
While it is nice to look at simulator options with a larger budget it also makes it harder because there are so many choices.
Much easier with a $500 budget, you buy the DD.

As an aside, it makes me furious that I can go out and fire an 82 one day, and the very next a 92.

A simulator will not help on that!
Lots of us are doing that! That is why we spend more and more on new simulators, new clubs and other gadgets.

[psace]

Good luck Whealsd. You are doing the right thing to visit Cory and see the different sims. I live about 11 hours north of you. If I was little closer I would suggest you come have a look at my Protee. Buying a simulator is a lengthy process. All the manufacturers are continually trying to improve their models so the options are constantly changing. Check out their future upgrade plans, too.

[wbealsd]

This may seem like a dumb question but couldn't one use a less expensive sim that provides club data in conjunction with the GC2? Even if the cost were basically the same, I'd think adding a GC2 to a setup like the ProTee would provide one with "more bang for the buck" than simply purchasing the HMT, especially if it's to be used for both entertainment as well as game improvement. At least if one is using the GC2 without the optional software that would probably require running it on an additional PC if one wanted to record both in real time.

[bubba22]

That would be pricey wbealsd. Plus the data will never correlate and there will not be anyintegration. Vector Pro has combined with the P3pro (not good though) as well as the Trugolf sim so that is an option. The Protee is developing a spin cam.

[Tracy C]

Ok and another question. How in the world have the gc2 folks been able to figure out calculating spin in that tiny box and others can seem to in a permanently installed environment. Isnit just me or is that kind of weird?

[wbealsd]

Thanks bubba22, I knew it wouldn't be cheap, but just wondered if it would provide a basic way to get both. As you can probably tell, I'm still pretty dazed by all of the possibilities - lol

Nice to know that ProTee is developing a spin cam, as it's one of the brands Cory carries and (as of this moment), sounds like they're following this forum and making regular improvements to their system and is looking like it will fit my budget! TruGolf is another one that's still under consideration. I'd like to make my ultimate purchase with future updates and support in mind, since I'm still limited by a "real world" budget, even if I don't like it, ha, ha!

I'm learning something new everyday here =|;0-)

[wbealsd]

psace, I might just take you up on your offer to check out your system sometime this year. Yeah, it's kind of a long trip but it's not completely out of the question!

[bubba22]

There are many launch monitors out there that are smal land measure spin. Trust me that others will come like the GC2. They need a solid competitor to bring the price down. The Flightscope, Trackman are other units (radar based however) that claim spin measurement although its probably derived in those units. The GC2 has an onboard processing unit with 2 cameras and flash that allows for high speed images of the ball to measure the dimples for spin. Other spin cams like the About golf, HD golf and Golftron measure a marking on the ball for spin. There is a debate as to which method is more accurate, dimples vs marking. Most feel that measuring markings is more accurate but dimple measurement is more convenient. Read this http://www.golfsimfactory.com/Future.html

[wbealsd]

Has anyone here used the Vector Pro launch monitor? Price point appears competitive to the GC2. If it's compatible with Trugolf systems, that could be a point in their favor.

[mmlincon]

I probably have the closest thing to the CX5, but it's more of a CX3 at this point. If you want club data you can pretty much forget about hitting from "anywhere". Honestly, this doesn't seem like a big feature but I hear it all the time. Why?

Let me address the ball spin camera first. Bottom line is GSA doesn't accept this data yet so even if the camera is working it won't effect the ball. This might be working in ProX, but I suspect the spin cam isn't quite fully functional. I wouldn't spend the money on this until we see an update that GSA is now accepting spin data.

I think the H and V cameras have been covered plenty and won't go into any detail there. I am interested in the line scan camera, but it's still too costly. I've had the XD ball track running and it works fine.

I've been planning on doing a review of the CX3 but want to get a little more time on it and it's been changing/improving so much lately its a moving target. I've been waiting for changes to stabilize before I wrote anything up. Ok, so the big negative with the club cam is having to mark you club with little reflective grey stickers and then having to adjust the software to deal with the location of the stickers. Really not that big of a deal but it is an extra step. If you have a much of people coming over and playing this can get to be a pain. They can actually play with out marking the clubs but you will only get ball speed/LA/direction. So, I had the PX2 for a few years and I can say that the club cam is more accurate and consistent for me. Being able to actually see the club path, face angle and initial ball path is invaluable and can also be used to make sure ball path is correct from your H cam. All in all you get a finer level of resolution with the camera. Period! Martin has been doing a lot of work around this lately and it shows.

As of now I think you are pretty much stuck with using the trigger pad. A line scan camera to trigger the club is feasible for sure. Problem is Martin would have to write a new firmware for the camera to limit the viewing area and while he can do it it isn't done to my knowledge. With a spin can you are looking at yet another one. The sensor pad cover this in a inexpensive package and the fiberbuilt mats and nice to hit from.

Bottom line, save some money now. Be patient and add the components when you know they are ready. Believe me this forum will know when something is out and working.

Now support from Martin can be flaky, but he will get back to you eventually. It's not ideal but you won't be completely stranded either. I've had him fix a number of bugs rather quickly and have had to get a sensor replaced which was free of charge. I think Martin would benefit from having someone doing support and some customer service for him. As it is it seems like he's being back logged with the increase in business. Just wanted to put a note in here about that since some of the comments make it sound like he's completely MIA.

[bubba22]

mmlincon you are our resident expert in the GSA. Thanks for the response. I am glad you have the same views as us. interseting that GSA doesn't accept spin data. I am sure that can be changed by Martin. Protee does accept spin. In Protee the club data will be used in the interface to get spin numbers that are sent to protee play. I do think the clubcam is better than the sensor pad. the plan with GSA maybe to develop the clubcam in conjunction with the spin cam so if one wants to hit without the stickers for club data then at least they will get spin data. Hitting from the same location is a complete non issue for me.

[mmlincon]

Actually, I got the info on GSA and spin from Zmax. I suspect once Martin gets spin working that we will see a GSA update. I'm not surprised that ProTee will use spin, they developed an interface that uses the GSA courses from what I understand. That would give them more control. It does look like Martin is close on spin and it does look like it works best with the club cam. Basically two cameras being used in that case. Looks like he is having some custom marked balls made too. It's sounding like spin maybe a reality in the near future. Next is GSA graphics engine and we'll be a rockin!

[bubba22]

Yep spin will come to GSA for sure. Protee will get spin I suspect by the summer. mmlincon what trigger are you using for the vcam/hcam? Is it the same trigger as the clubcam or a trigger array? How is he planning to use the line scan for the club trigger?

[mmlincon]

I have an older XD ball track which is an array. It does the same thing as his camera trigger array basically but it has a ton of sensors.

With the line scan firmware you can define an area in the pixels to monitor for light intensity change. When it meets the threshold you trigger the cams. I suspect it will take a different lens, narrower FOV, than the H and V cams. Really I think this could be done with a microphone as well, but it would limit you to just the club cam. This could be an option for people who don't want the trigger mat. The only downside I see with it is impact deviation. Creating a impact sound trigger would be extremely easy. Actually creating the club cam trigger was extremely easy.

[bubba22]

Yes the XD ball track. You must hit from the same spot with the clubcam and ball spin cam? No biggie I suspect. If using the line scan for the clubcam and spin cam, the line scan would need to be triggered before the club hits the ball. A lot of the launch monitors use a microphone to trigger the cams.

[mmlincon]

Yes, same spot for sure. To do club and ball spin it will take two triggers. I don't see any way around it unless the cameras can take two rapid shots