Honour situation, #2

[golfmania]

You are out playing a round. There is money on the game. You know the people quite well. A fellow competitor points out that YOUVE made a rules violation, but you are 95% sure he is wrong. He gets very heated when you argue with him. You play a provisional, or take 2 scores, whichever works, until the round is over to verify the rules. Your competitors win, and its significant if that score is right or wrong. You pay off and verify the rule. Turns out youre right. You collect the money but the friends are extremely mad. They claim you've fudged a score here and there and that it wasn't a big enough deal to change the decision. They refuse to play for money ever again.

Are you happy or sad?

[byerxa]

Sounds like serious stuff to me! I wouldn't want to bother playing for $ with somebody that intense. If I was the other guy(s), I would be satisified with you playing 2 scores then going with the ruling at the end - you are allowed to do that.

I'd be disappointed, but would not want to play for cash again under those circumstances. If it was me (and I am only talking about me here, no judgement), I would probably let it go BUT would make sure they knew about the correct ruling. Most of my playing buddies would pay up without the crap.

Carrying a rule book in the bag also helps (a lot). I got in a p***ing match with my father and brother-in-law over declaring unplayable and where you could drop (I was not in a bunker or hazard). I used 28-b stating you can drop anywhere on the line keeping the original spot between the drop and pin. My brother-in-law (who was diplomatic) thought I was full of it until my dad pulled out the rule book he had and said "well, I'll be! You can do that!"

[el tigre]

You are out playing a round. There is money on the game. You know the people quite well. A fellow competitor points out that YOUVE made a rules violation, but you are 95% sure he is wrong. He gets very heated when you argue with him. You play a provisional, or take 2 scores, whichever works, until the round is over to verify the rules. Your competitors win, and its significant if that score is right or wrong. You pay off and verify the rule. Turns out youre right. You collect the money but the friends are extremely mad. They claim you've fudged a score here and there and that it wasn't a big enough deal to change the decision. They refuse to play for money ever again.

Are you happy or sad?

Happy, of course. The competition was played fairly in accordance with the rules, and the best man won. And you've learned that the people you are playing with don't care about fairness or honesty - all that is important to them in winning. They tried to bully and intimidate you, and when that didn't work they called you a liar and a cheater in order to justify their own lying and cheating in the past. You were prepared to pay if you were wrong - they should be to. Instead, they've shown their true colours - and now that they refuse to play for money ever again, they'll never get the chance to jerk you around in the future! Sounds good to me.

[Colby]

Happy, of course. The competition was played fairly in accordance with the rules, and the best man won. And you've learned that the people you are playing with don't care about fairness or honesty - all that is important to them in winning. They tried to bully and intimidate you, and when that didn't work they called you a liar and a cheater in order to justify their own lying and cheating in the past. You were prepared to pay if you were wrong - they should be to. Instead, they've shown their true colours - and now that they refuse to play for money ever again, they'll never get the chance to jerk you around in the future! Sounds good to me.

Agreed. Well put. There are lots of others out there to play golf with.

[EDSGOLF]

That's why playing for money with friends can become heated, the most I play for is $1 holes for these reasons.......usually a beer later all is forgotten. I say you should be happy, like el tigre said, the best man won.

[BC MIST]

You are out playing a round. There is money on the game. You know the people quite well. A fellow competitor points out that YOUVE made a rules violation, but you are 95% sure he is wrong. He gets very heated when you argue with him. You play a provisional, or take 2 scores, whichever works, until the round is over to verify the rules. Your competitors win, and its significant if that score is right or wrong. You pay off and verify the rule. Turns out youre right. You collect the money but the friends are extremely mad. They claim you've fudged a score here and there and that it wasn't a big enough deal to change the decision. They refuse to play for money ever again.
Are you happy or sad?

You pay off and verify the rule. It is apparent that you were unaware of the true character of your FC's so getting into this kind of predicament was unavoidable. By carrying an updated Rule book AND the book of decisions, it may have been possible to settle the dispute before the end of the round.

What you did, however, by playing two balls was ther right thing to do. The mistake you made, IMO, was in paying first and verifying the rule second. I would not have paid a dime until they showed me the rule that confrmed that you had indeed made a mistake. The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" applies here.

Once it was confirmed that you did NOT make a mistake, accept their apology , your money refunded, the money from them for paying off their loss, and move on. If you get none of the above, then diplomatically thank them for the game and inform them that because of their attitude, bullying and false accusations that they will never have the pleasure of your company again, and mean it. There are too many good people to play with out there to play with who love the the game and respect the people they play with, that you don't have to put up with these kind of boors.

I would probably feel sad about the incident, but even sadder if I had said nothing.

[broken27]

Don't have any friends like these, so I can't put myself into the situation 100%.

I suppose at the very least I'd be happy for "one-upping" them by proving their claims of my rules transgression false. I'd take their money, and if they talked smack about me cheating or fudging scores, I'd give them the central digit and proceed to spend their money on beer.

Life's too short to argue about rules. Why play with someone who doesn't know them and yet calls people cheaters?

Dan

[beatnik58]

I had this happen to me when, in the interest of fairness, I made the mistake of questionning the handicaps being stated before a mini-tourney. Never again! A few of the "low caps" got insulted that I would even suggest that they might be padding their caps a wee bit. Several of them held a grudge for quite a while (I got tagged with being a whiner) and things were never the same.

From now on I will be very careful when there is money involved on the course.

What would you do?

- Refuse the bet?
- Protest?
- Shut up?

[sensfan63]

I am assuming that this would take place before the round, but absolutely refuse the bet. There's nothing worse than a bad bet in golf. You play well but, miraculously, your opponents play even better!
You will find that if your opponents have upped their handicap a little, they will be willing to part ways with a few shots to get the bet in...be wary of these people!

[dbleber]

I don't bet money with my friends. Beer yes, money no! Money does strange things to people, even people that you know very well but beer always seems to be more social. Now a perfect stranger, I would have no problem betting money with and calling a ruling against them. If they get mad, I don't really care because as long as they pay up I don't care if I ever see them again. I would never hand over any money until the logistics are handled!
Denny

[LobWedge]

That's why I'll only play for money with my closest friends. We're a group of four who have an unabiding respect for the rules of the game. We all know to a fair certainty what each others handicaps are (range between 8 & +2)and we play accordingly, or we'll play best ball teams straight up.

If a rule gets broken, the rest of us will surely let him know, and its done in the spirit of the game. If one of us moves thier marker on the green to make way for someone elses line, the others will remind him to move it back before he putts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not demanding that you have to obey the rules or don't play. If you choose not to play by the rules, that's your issue. Just don't ask me to play you for money.

[golfmania]

Interesting answers.

I had this happen to me when, in the interest of fairness, I made the mistake of questionning the handicaps being stated before a mini-tourney. Never again! A few of the "low caps" got insulted that I would even suggest that they might be padding their caps a wee bit. Several of them held a grudge for quite a while (I got tagged with being a whiner) and things were never the same.

From now on I will be very careful when there is money involved on the course.

What would you do?

- Refuse the bet?
- Protest?
- Shut up?

I'd refuse to bet.

[mpare]

Most of the time, my friends and I have some kind of money game on the go. It's never caused a problem. To the contrary, it usually serves to focus our attention a bit better. Bets are not, in and of themselves, a problem. However, in some cases, the money at risk may serve to reveal the true character of the folks your playing with. Whining, bullying, accusations, and the unwillingness to accept defeat graciously are all indicative of a much deeper problem. If I ever have the misfortune of playing with someone like that, it would only happen once. Golf is supposed to be fun and life's too short to waste it on a head case.

[em69]

I don't play for money unless it is coming from a sponsors pocket
Playing for the lowest score is sufficient for me.