Best place to get fitted?

[chinny424]

I was reading another post about club fitting and am intrigued. I have been thinking about this for a while now. I was wondering where or who is the best to see for a club fitting. Multiple sessions if needed is okay.

[Hearzy]

There is a couple guys on the forum who are fitters... Downhillslider being one of them.

[golfin-buddy]

I would suggest seeing a certified clubfittter. Pretty much all the PGA of Canada golf pros in the region are certified. If not a golf pro, then a guy like Downhillslider or Don at Artisan have great followings and are certified. Whatever it is, make sure the person is qualified. It is also best to to it outside if possible, most fitters prefer it because ballflight cannot lie!

The other option is to find a demo day of the club company you want to buy, they'll usually fit you and nto charge anything if you purchase from them, but this is hard to find unless your a member at a club.


Good luck.

[downhillslider]

For the record, Don and I are both certified fitters via the now defunct Pro Clubmaker's Society. P C S

[golfin-buddy]

For the record, Don and I are both certified fitters via the now defunct Pro Clubmaker's Society. P C S

of course... I just re read my post and that is not what I was implying. Edited...

Cheers!

[downhillslider]

[QUOTE=golfin-buddy;431367]of course... I just re read my post and that is not what I was implying. Edited...

Cheers![/QUOTE]

Right back at you !!

[jermart]

I've been fit, both indoor for irons and driver (Don) and outdoor for a driver (Kevin). Have read in many sites online that outdoor is best, but couldn't tell you for certain. At Don's received both static and dynamic measurements, and only dynamic at Kevin's using various drivers and shafts with best driver determined by ball flight/spin stats.

Kevin Haime talked about the Taylormade mat-t system, which is indoors but provides 3D simulation. Closest sites to Ottawa are in TO. From what I've read, costs $400 which is steep. Appears to give a very, very detailed feedback analysis.

I just want to point out that my improvement with hitting my driver came a while later. When taking lessons at Kevin's, Jason Winters suggested a swing change that vastly improved my accuracy. It took a few lessons to get to that point. Now I've put away my KZG driver (which was weighted to deliver more of a draw). The swing change results in poorer hits with the KZG. I usethe Taylormade driver which provides more of a high (slight) fade. I keep wondering what the mat-t could do though.

[downhillslider]

I've been fit, both indoor for irons and driver (Don) and outdoor for a driver (Kevin). Have read in many sites online that outdoor is best, but couldn't tell you for certain. At Don's received both static and dynamic measurements, and only dynamic at Kevin's using various drivers and shafts with best driver determined by ball flight/spin stats.

Kevin Haime talked about the Taylormade mat-t system, which is indoors but provides 3D simulation. Closest sites to Ottawa are in TO. From what I've read, costs $400 which is steep. Appears to give a very, very detailed feedback analysis.

I just want to point out that my improvement with hitting my driver came a while later. When taking lessons at Kevin's, Jason Winters suggested a swing change that vastly improved my accuracy. It took a few lessons to get to that point. Now I've put away my KZG driver (which was weighted to deliver more of a draw). The swing change results in poorer hits with the KZG. I usethe Taylormade driver which provides more of a high (slight) fade. I keep wondering what the mat-t could do though.

Interesting comments. Before I reply, I have a few quetions for you.

What driver/shaft were you using before Don and KH fit you and what were the specs ?

What driver did the dynamic only fitting determine ?

Are you telling us that no fitting parameters were discussed whatsoever other than launch conditions at KH ?

What were the specs/shaft of the KZG and did it have movable werights ?

When did the TM make it's way in to your bag and what model was it ?

Why the TM and was it fitted ?

What was the ball flight with the KZG ?

What specifically was changed in your swing after the lessons ?

Sorry to be so long winded but something is stange about this adventure of yours and I'm trying to figure it out.

I would appreciate you answering, at your convenience.

Thank you.

[jermart]

Hi Downhillslider,

-Was hitting an off the shelf TM R5; purchased around 2004 and don't recall any specs other than it had a 10.5 loft. Head was cracked thus club was discarded.

-Driver selected was TM Burner 2009 model. 10.5 loft; RE AY 49 medium flex mid-tip shaft. This will mean more to you than me.

-Yes is what I'm saying. I was not measured for anything; could have gone to GT for this I assume.

-It's a KZG GF4; 10.5 loft; ACCRA M2 SI-50, D Y MATCH RT shaft (again, doesn't mean anything to me). 4 weights as indicated by its name, non adjustable by myself, as you would know. Heaviest possible weight, not sure what that is in grams, is at heel. This was to correct my slice, which at that time was costing me a lot of lost strokes, so that I was hitting my 3 wood off the tee.

-Had used the TM Burner indicated above before getting the KZG, and then reverted to it again, after getting some advice from Jason. For a point there, a month or so, my slice was getting bad, which is why I went to Don for the driver, as he had fitted me for the irons.

- The TM provided the least amount of "power fade". Static fitting was not conducted.

-For the first few (5 or 6) rounds the KZG was quite straight, but about 25-30 yards short of the Burner. Mind you, that was the few times I was hitting the Burner fairly well. I eventually started slicing with the KZG which is when I went for lessons.

-Basically I was told to get my swing going from 7 oclock to 1 oclock; I'm a righty. This resulted in a high slight fade that I really like. Guess what I want to say is that proper lessons, at least in my case, were of greater benefit than a fitting, for the driver at least. I really like my irons, which were fitted by Don. Not fair to compare with my old irons, because they were old, mid eighties, so large difference in performance.

Not sure if this gives you what you want to know.

[downhillslider]

Hi Downhillslider,

-Was hitting an off the shelf TM R5; purchased around 2004 and don't recall any specs other than it had a 10.5 loft. Head was cracked thus club was discarded.

-Driver selected was TM Burner 2009 model. 10.5 loft; RE AY 49 medium flex mid-tip shaft. This will mean more to you than me.

-Yes is what I'm saying. I was not measured for anything; could have gone to GT for this I assume.

-It's a KZG GF4; 10.5 loft; ACCRA M2 SI-50, D Y MATCH RT shaft (again, doesn't mean anything to me). 4 weights as indicated by its name, non adjustable by myself, as you would know. Heaviest possible weight, not sure what that is in grams, is at heel. This was to correct my slice, which at that time was costing me a lot of lost strokes, so that I was hitting my 3 wood off the tee.

-Had used the TM Burner indicated above before getting the KZG, and then reverted to it again, after getting some advice from Jason. For a point there, a month or so, my slice was getting bad, which is why I went to Don for the driver, as he had fitted me for the irons.

- The TM provided the least amount of "power fade". Static fitting was not conducted.

-For the first few (5 or 6) rounds the KZG was quite straight, but about 25-30 yards short of the Burner. Mind you, that was the few times I was hitting the Burner fairly well. I eventually started slicing with the KZG which is when I went for lessons.

-Basically I was told to get my swing going from 7 oclock to 1 oclock; I'm a righty. This resulted in a high slight fade that I really like. Guess what I want to say is that proper lessons, at least in my case, were of greater benefit than a fitting, for the driver at least. I really like my irons, which were fitted by Don. Not fair to compare with my old irons, because they were old, mid eighties, so large difference in performance.

Not sure if this gives you what you want to know.

I have a few things I would like to point out if I may.

The driver is the most difficult club to fit. Done properly, the process would involve at least 3 visits to compare data and have proto types ready. The fact that you hit your fitted driver poorly after lessons tells me a lot. My experience with these senarios has been that sometimes, if the customer has swing flaws, it is best to correct them before going through the process. I don't care how good the fitter claims to be, equipment alone will not fix the problem. Your numbers might improve marginaly but that's about it.

When I run in to this situation, I come clean with the customer and they do one of two things. I recommend going to Danielle Nadon's Tee To Green facility because the best situation for a clubfitter is to be affiliated with swing doctors like Joe D. and Dave D. at Danielle's, OR, they run straight to the big retail stores because they are not willing to do the time to fix it.

A quick assesment of your two drivers. The KZG head was designed for "the better player" beeing at 425cc's, and only .5 deg. (+/- .5 deg.) of hook face angle allows for working the ball having less MOI and only 10.5 deg. of loft. The shaft has a soft profile mirroring an "A" flex with a very soft tip.

The TM on the other hand definitly has a more hooked face angle and not uncommon for the lofts on non TP heads to be 1.5 to 2 deg" higher than the stamped # on the sole. The shaft has a lot more meat to it than the Accura.

So, right of the top, you have more loft, more slice correction with the hooked face and a shaft that won't leave your clubhead lagging behind as much. Add in the lessons and.....

Thanks for you time.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[jermart]

Which all comes back to strongly suggest that chinny get properly fit for his clubs, including being informed what the actual lofts and lies of all his clubs are. If the TM can be off by as many degrees as you suggest, it would be well worth knowing what the exact loft is, at the very least to provide a baseline for future club selection.
The TM also comes with a 46" shaft which is way too long. My fitting should have had all this analyzed but I've adapted to its dimensions....exactly the opposite what a proper fitting is supposed to accomplish, i.e. the golfer changing to fit the equipment.
I've also read, and suggested by Don Trahan, that it's probably a good idea for most golfers to go to a smaller club head than the 460s being marketed. It's too easy to be confused with all the various info being on golf sites.

All that said, I do strongly believe that being properly fit will provide much more club consistency than in off the rack clubs. At least you will know that your clubs will have a consistent 4 - 5 degrees between clubs, rather that possibly only 2 degrees. This alone will improve your game.

[jermart]

Downhillslider,

Speaking of the TaylorMade mat-t system, if you are aware of it, (KH spoke with a TM rep on his program on Feb 11).
In your opinion would this add any value to the fitting? I'm thinking in terms of showing exactly how a downswing can be measured. For instance two golfers may have clubhead speeds of 95 mph. Golfer A may have a harder transition move than Golfer B, who is smoother, thus torquing the shaft more, and requiring a stiffer shaft.

I think this system is overkill for other than elite golfers. If I can recall Tom Wishon's (golfclub maker) book, I think a Launch Monitor would be more than adequate. Tom said, I think, that having a positive launch angle with your driver gives more carry; basically that most golfers should be using a 13 degree driver or higher. He equated it to spraying water from a hose, you would aim higher, up to a point, to get further distance. A Launch Monitor would give you this feedback. I know I had a negative angle on my driver when measured at KH. I shifted the ball furhter up in my stance, and made sure I lowered my back shoulder. I was not measured after this adjustment, but believe I'm hitting more upward now. I know my distance went from up quite a bit.

[Big Johnny69]

From what I've read from club builders and fitters:

Positive angle of attack allows you to use left loft (to control spin dependant on swingspeed), whereas with a negative angle of attack more loft is required to get the optimum spin needed (again, swingspeed dependant). As a side note, a positive angle of attack is prefered (as per what I have read).

[goley]

Having a club custom fit can increase your yardage a small amount if you are creating less than optimum impact conditions. If you learn to maximze your impact conditions then have the proper club fit the distance is much greater. An example of this that I have had in the past was with a gentleman that was swinging the club around 100 mph but hitting down -5 and across on the ball 10 degrees out to in with an open face and carrying the ball about 185 yrds with little roll. After teaching the gentlemen the proper movements and getting the club to move inside out 4 degrees and hitting up on the ball 4 degrees on the upswing the increase in yardage was probably close to 60 yards. Once the proper motion was acheived consistently we then went through various heads/lofts/weight of shaft until the proper one was found. The last couple of drives that he hit were around the 260 yrd mark. Definetly the most that I have ever seen but there have been others that have had similar experiences.
You can expect good results if you go to someone who not only knows clubfitting but also the proper movements required to maximize your impact conditions.

[Chieflongtee]

http://www.trackman.dk/download/news...ewsletter7.pdf

[leftylucas]

Thanks Chief, great article. I have been working on increasing the smash factor on the indoor sim. I did find that the smoother the swing the better SF I got.

[nokids]

I had a better experience being fitted by downhillslider than by those company vans who come for 1 day and try to fit a whole bunch of folks. Those vans make me feel like I'm on an assembly line and not being taken care of personally.

[leftylucas]

I could not agree more that the personal touch is worth its weight in gold.