Looking for launch monitor, advice?

[left72]

Hi,

I'm looking for a reasonably accurate launch monitor to improve my game, particularly over the winter (hcp 9). I'm not really interested in simulation or putting, so I don't care about the number of courses or fancy graphics. I'm more interested in club path, face angle and distance/deviation from target. Ideally, the device works both indoors and outdoors.

As a novice in that area I noticed that systems are IR, doppler, camera based or a combination thereof. Any recommendation here on the technology?

I've read numerous posts here and did some web research (see attached mind map) to list some devices and their price range.

Any thoughts or ideas? My budget is 3k max or my wife kills me (heck, she'll kill me anyway once I tell her ;-)) The GC2 looks great but sadly beyond my budget.

Thanks in advance,
Stefan.

[HRS]

Fantastic image, really lays it all out. My recommendation, having used a few of those on your list, would be an Optishot. You can get it for less than $500 and run it to a laptop. If you don't want the cage and impact screen and projector you save thousands more. It will tell you how the club is coming in, angles, etc. as you want. Distances are a little less accurate in my opinion but the most important thing in golf is to hit the stupid ball correctly so if you know you're doing that, you'll be set. Your single digit handicap tells me you don't need to worry about that part so much. The other $2500 could be used for a couple of trips somewhere warmer!

[goatbarn]

Get rid of zelocity if you want accurate reading/spin numbers. Also most "cheaper" doppler devices and camera devices will not measure club face/path accurately. If you're interested in those numbers you're really looking at a sensor system, which you won't be able to use outdoors.

[bubba22]

"I'm looking for a reasonably accurate launch monitor to improve my game, particularly over the winter (hcp 9). I'm not really interested in simulation or putting, so I don't care about the number of courses or fancy graphics. I'm more interested in club path, face angle and distance/deviation from target. Ideally, the device works both indoors and outdoors."

This is a tough request at that price. So you want a club analyser and a ball launch monitor? The problem with the Optishot is that it is not portable and you will have a difficult time using it outdoors. It is not a launch monitor at all. It is a club analyser. For what you are requestion I would suggest the Flightscope but it is beyond that price. Perhaps you can get a used one. Other than that I don't think there are any true options for you. If just club analytics and no ball launch data needed as well as just home use, then yes the Optishot will work.

[TheGolfer]

do the research then compare to foresights gc2 launch monitor. don't spend the money on the courses if you don't want a simulator. the launch monitor i got for $6500 in October. yes, well over your 3k budget. i started with a 2-3k ideal goal also and you can see from the posts that i went through that after testing several and not being happy with the accuracy.

the foresight gc2 is a launch monitor. it has a screen on the unit itself if you don't want to buy the software which tells you ball launch - spin, speed, path, etc. they advertise their ball launch characteristic error tolerances on their website and they are very good - no other simulator company advertises the ball launch error tolerances (spin, speed, etc). it does not tell club head but i find i don't need that since i know what the face is doing pretty much and with the resulting ball launch numbers. they just came out with a club head measurement add on but don't think they will sell any at the msrp.

the gc2 can go indoors out take it outdoors which sounds like what you want. only other i would recommend that does both is trackman 3 but that price is at least triple.

i wish i bought this years ago. i did go wtih the simulator software but honestly we don't use it so the 12 course pack i bought was a waste. its the same redchain backened software that others use like protee, etc. all the sims regardless of mfr the courses are going to be video gamey if you are used to using launch monitors. we used the fitting software and range all the time. its great. way better than hitting into the net like we had before.

below is a link i started when i was comparing different sims in october. as you can see i didn't even consider the gc2 in the title at the time because of the price. after testing 4 different ones i ended up going that route. my priority was more accuracy since i use it for training versus playing the computer games.

i don't think there any launch monitors < $6.5k that measure spin that can be used indoors and outdoors. the others estimate it based on club head measurements / estimates.

http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...hlight=trugolf

personally if you are a single digit and looking for spin and like to shape shots i think you will be disappointed in things like optishot, etc.

if your budget is firm < 3k then obviously this is not a choice but you still need to be aware of what you are and are not getting. i personnally would go the route of just the gc2 unit and use the screen for readouts to be more accurate versus a lower end simulator with the course games based on what you said your objectives are but obviosly going over budget.

foresightsports.com is thier website.

if interested send me PM and I can give you more details.

good luck regardless which route you go. just test anything before you buy to make sure it meets your expectations.

[FaultyClubs]

...I'm not really interested in simulation or putting, so I don't care about the number of courses or fancy graphics. I'm more interested in club path, face angle and distance/deviation from target...

For club analytics (path/face angle) then really it boils down to the Optishot for the inexpensive solution. This is one I'd recommend as you can buy it, try it and if it works you are done.

If it isn't good enough then you can sell it for almost what you paid for it and move up to the PX2 Lite. At $2k is still well within your budget and is the next worthwhile upgrade over the Optishot for club measurement accuracy. The experts can correct me...but spending more money beyond the PX2 Lite doesn't improve on club data accuracy (at least based on the specs listed for the PX2 which are phenomenal).

My budget is 3k max or my wife kills me

What does this mean? Computer? Hitting net? Screen? Projector? What do you have already and what do you plan to buy? If you are only looking for club path/face angle analytics then you might only need to buy a hitting net.


Overall, if you're not sure I'd suggest the Optishot. You may find you are happy with it. Also you may discover you like the graphics and simulation so would be willing to pay more for a full PX2 over the PX2 Lite just to get more etc. You may also decide you need ball info which is where most people on here will tend to to push you...but that is a LOT more cost.

[bubba22]

thegolfer, his budget is 3K and he wants club data. How does suggesting the GC2 make any sense????

"Any thoughts or ideas? My budget is 3k max or my wife kills me (heck, she'll kill me anyway once I tell her ;-)) The GC2 looks great but sadly beyond my budget"

[ZMax]

Left72, this is something new and I'm not sure if it's accurate but I want one anyway.http://forum.OttawaGolf.com/showthre...-Club-Analyzer

Use the rest of the money on an indoor simulator setup.

[bubba22]

Good advice ZMax. The other one was the pocket pro http://www.pocketpro.org/index.html . Not sure if its up and going yet. In your budget and what you are asking, these things make sense. The GC2 or any other higher priced system make no sense for what you are requesting.

[marlabt]

Like Left72, I am looking for a launch monitor for put in my workshop. Am considering the GC2 but have a couple questions: 1. How far does the ball need to travel to get an accurate reading. I have designed a collapsible cage that I will be able to pull to the ceiling and get out of the way and it is 10x10. Height is not a problem as my ceiling is 16' 2. I am not interested in the courses but would really like to have the driving range software, can you get the range without buying a course package?

[ZMax]

Here's one of the GC2 threads that we have. Post your questions in there marlabt, if you don't find the answers in it. http://forum.OttawaGolf.com/showthre...oresightsports

[TheGolfer]

Like Left72, I am looking for a launch monitor for put in my workshop. Am considering the GC2 but have a couple questions: 1. How far does the ball need to travel to get an accurate reading. I have designed a collapsible cage that I will be able to pull to the ceiling and get out of the way and it is 10x10. Height is not a problem as my ceiling is 16' 2. I am not interested in the courses but would really like to have the driving range software, can you get the range without buying a course package?

Got my gc2 before the holidays after testing 4 systems. Unlike the radar launch monitors or the sims with cameras down range 4-10 feet this unit has the cameras on the unit and I think it takes the images over ~ 18 inches but not sure of the exact spec. The viewable area on the ground for it to recognize a ball is almost ~ 8 inch x 6 inch rectangle (not exactly a rectangle).

I recently had trackman rep over the house to demo the trackman 3 radar that can be used indoors. nice unit and their software is very very nice (but triple the price) but it needs 10feet after impact before screen and another 8 feet behind ball for the unit. actually i had 10 and 8 feet respectively and it needed more to pick up spin with the radar.

As long as you got room to make your swing your good. Very easy to setup - just sit down level on mat or up to 2" above the hitting surface and that's it.

I bought the unit for $6500 USD - negotiated lower than msrp. Some people just use the unit itself with no software since it has a display that gives you the ball measurements. I bought the 1 course plus fitting software for $1499 USD. Expensive but actually this is what I use 99% of the time. At the time I thought I would use the courses to try to play some rounds in the winter so I bought the champions package 12 pack for $1499 USD. That was a waste of money for me and sounds like you are similar. It uses the same redchain software that others use like protee. I find the sim courses more video gamish because the putting, sand, rough, short game. I wish I bought a launch monitor and range software years ago though rather than hitting into nets blind with just video.

several resellers sell the 5 pack with the range software but you can just get the 1 pack with the range software.

Certainly the portability will be attractive for you if you are looking at a setup to move out of the way when you are done quickly. Just pull out the usb and power cable and move the small portable unit that weights a couple pounds. You can even get rid of the usb cable and do bluetooth. Haven't tried that yet. Though I have a dedicated golf room I also put it away each time I use it so nobody accidently steps into it. If you are looking for a launch monitor that you can take outdoors for practice or even just bring to demo days to test different clubs you will also like this unit.

Feel free to PM / email me anytime if you have any specific questions on the unit.

[bubba22]

TheGolfer, how do you find the customer service for Foresight?

[goatbarn]

You could get a vector or vector pro for $500-$750 easily. I have one and I find it very accurate. It's all in the setup, as most negative reviews of it come from big box stores whose employees aren't very knowledgeable about it and setup is wrong. It will give you all the ball data you want, just have to use striped balls. Worth a look.

[bubba22]

I agree the vector is good. You ned to mark the ball which is no biggie. No club data though right goatbarn??

[goatbarn]

Ah crap, Im a dummie. Forgot the dude wanted club data. Disregard my post! -1 for me.

[bubba22]

Thats ok. The Vector is a decent unit probably similair to the GC2. The Gc2 does have their club data add on but I have not been impressed with the videos of that unit notto mention the price. the Vector hasn't advanced to any club data, but for ball data it is a decent option for a much better price than the GC2.I supposed you can debate which unit is more accurate!!!

[TheGolfer]

bubba22 - its funny you and zmax are very predictable by now - always trying to poke holes in foresight and get it out on the threads for google searches. you know my opinion on customer support from the threads but you also know i am very discriminating when i spend a lot of money / time but it still doesn't change my opinion of the product and price point.

similar to the sim companies like gsa where their customers like the equipment for simulator purposes but the sales and customer support you don't get much help and for those type camera / sensor setups the average person does need help hanging lights and cameras from walls and ceilings unless you go with the simple head sensor only but these folks seem like they want an accurate launch monitor.

in summary customer support for home sim users is not their focus, wish it was but the reality it is not - their primary market seems to be club fitters and club / shaft manufacturers for testing. common theme seems portable, easy setup, accuracy, spin measurements. seems like all the golfsmiths, tgws, dicks, and one other chain are in process of converting all their fitting systems over to gc2. not excusing their behaviors but explaining.

the unit i received was off on yardage and i am very particular about my yardages. as you can see from the threads it was a hassle proving the unit was short on carries but i did and they sent me a replacement unit. big picture if you are not one of those unpredicable random chances of getting a unit with cameras shifted in transit you don't need customer support since there is nothing to setup. frankly once i got through that i haven't had a need to call the company.

relative to other choices the product is a good product, measures spin, most accurate at the price point, easy setup and portabiity, and launch monitor can be used inside and outside. closests thing to it is trackman 3 indoor but its almost triple the cost and you need 18 feet minimum for the radar to catch some ball measures like spin. my needs are more indoors so no need to pay for a unit that is the gold standard for tracking ball flight outdoors. Having said that I after layoff I am already getting back to club ho'ing and brought it to the store that uses the aboutgolf 3track - was pleased with results compared to outdoors so I used the gc2 to test a few new clubs before getting another driver. I wasn't planning on it but now I can easily see on demo days every other week during season take it over to the range and test different clubs / shafts for fun.

there are other companies you promote but if something was questionable about the hardware I think it would also be a challenge to get a free complete replacement for free from europe including shipping there and back and your support from the states is via email and wait for a response next day due to timezone differences.

recommend reading all the threads to get the complete picture.

overall - great product, very portable, measures spin, more accurate than anything in its price point and below, indoors/outdoors, nice fitting / range option but not over the top like trackman 3 but still good, only company that publishes its ball launch error tolerances which are very good from a fitting perspective (ie spin, speed, path / azimuth, launch angle, etc - see website for numbers).

good luck, read the threads, test anything before you buy (gc2 is all over now), and feel free to PM with any detailed questions.

Regards,

[ZMax]

TheGolfer, how do you find the customer service for Foresight?

Valid question bubba22. Customer service is very important when you get into this price range, including Trugolf, Protee, Flightscope, GSA, etc....

[TheGolfer]

Valid question bubba22. Customer service is very important when you get into this price range, including Trugolf, Protee, Flightscope, GSA, etc....

there is a link out there for feedback on GSA customer service - most feedback was bad.

protee is in europe, so best support would be via email from the states and wait for answers the next day.

best tech support i used was trugolf (not most accurate) but when we had trouble setting it up we just picked up the phone and they stepped us through no problem from the states.

in fairness need to clarify between technical support with gc2 and customer support. customer support was handled by their parnter jon watters who has a reputation of being abbrasive and harsh. not the right personnality for that position. any time i have technical questions I send to their tech support and usually get a response that day if sent early enough or by the next day.

[TheGolfer]

one more link worth reading...http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...l-measurements

[bubba22]

TheGolfer all I can say is that there are options for launch monitors and simulators that people have to chose from. The GC2 is a good unit but for you to suggest that for left72 given what he demands and wants to pay, make no sense. You say you have tried 3 or 4 sims but you don't really know a sim until you own one and spend some time with it. I think you are wrong with your opinion of the About golf, Trugolf, GSA, Protee based on what I would say is very little experience with those sims. This is not to say that the GC2 is not a good unit, which I agree it is. Just bear in mind that there are other options and plenty of reasons to consider a sim including their customer service etc. I do promote the Gc2 for what its worth and for the right customer it is a perfect option. It's just that, an option. I also would recommend the Optishot depending on a persons finances, setup etc. The best advice to someone would take all that into consideration.

[TheGolfer]

looked like marlabt was asking specificaly about the gc2...

[bubba22]

Hold on here theGolfer -quote " bubba22 - its funny you and zmax are very predictable by now" - You are calling US PREDICTABLE!!!!!!

The thread was for left72 about the launch monitor and you answered suggesting the GC2 to him!!!

[ZMax]

In light of what is currently going with 70jr's GC2, Bubba22's question was valid. For this kind of money, it shouldn't be a hassle to get a replacement unit or anything for that matter. That goes for GSA, Protee, as well.

When you were researching, you ask about customer service, so you obviously thought it was important.

[infinity13]

Apologies if this was already mentioned, Might be completely wrong as I dont have experience with these items, but would it be possible to just buy a used vector and also a new optishot? You could then dual display or something and show the results on computer of both systems, optishot for club info, accusport for ball info?

[goatbarn]

I guess you could, I don't know if the led flash used by the vector would interfere with the IR sensors on the dancin' dogg. A launch monitor with club head data, assuming everything is accurate, is everything possible to know (other than body motions) about your golf swing/shot. If you're looking at trying to get this all accurately and within your budget, I'd be shocked if you don't compromise on something to get it. But good luck!

[bubba22]

You can do that ie buy a used Vector and Optishot. The vector as mentioned uses a flash that may or may not interfere with the Optishot. You wouldn't be able to integrate them. I suspect that the results from both would be different and would be difficult to show in a single screen. The better option (a little more expensive) would be to integrate the Vector pro with the P3pro and it does show the club data and ball data on the same screen. The p3pro only uses the launch angle in its simulation however.

[goatbarn]

Ah yes, bingo. I think that could be the best solution. Although you're looking at around $1000-1200 for both. Could be worth it though, depends.

[left72]

Hi,

first of all, thanks for all the replies. It got me starting to think about my requirements again, which is always a good start. My main motivation to have an indoor systems is to practice more frequently. Currently, it takes me 30min to drive to the range, another 30min back. So to play 1min of golf, I have to invest 60min driving . But it takes me only 5min to go to the basement.
So the question is: where can I practice and what do I want to work on? I see three scenarios:

#1

Indoor/Basement: work on wedges or 3/4 swings and my swing plane/face angles (1-2 times/week)

#2

Outdoor/Range: long shots, wedges, chipping and putting, focus on distance control (1 time/week)

#3

Outdoor/Range: long shots, wedges, focus on technique, check in depth with trackman (once per month with trainer)

I don't always need the world class precision of the trackman. For #3, I drive to the club, take a lesson with the trainer, that's it.
However, I need precision to such an extent that e.g. in #1 the device tells me the true path of the club head (i.e. it doesn't say
2 degree out-side in, while in fact it was 1 degree inside-out).

The GC2 appears to satisfy both #1 and #2 (even #3) which is great but I didn't find any used model at all (so that it
suits my budget). Any hints here?

Other devices that fit scenarios #1 and #2 are probably even more expensive. So the question is, can two devices help
me here and satisfy my budget?

For #2: I basically want to work on my rhythm and distance control (no need to work on swing plane, technique, etc. - I
do that in #1 and #3). I need something that reliably tells me the distance (wedge/long shots) and an iPod. I'm thinking
of a PureContact which appears to be reasonably accurate (for shots of 20 to 150 yards). You have to dial in the club
prior to each shot, which is a hassle for random practice. An alternative, albeit much more expensive, could be the
Vector X or Pro.

For #1: I've checked out the DD. I think it is more targeted to the fun user not the golf freak that I am. So, I could
either use a Vector X/Pro or an IR-based System such as GSA PX2 Lite, P3Pro and the like.

It all boils down to few alternatives:

a) for #1 and #2 use the GC2 and get killed by wife ;-), in total 6.000$
b) for #1 PureContact (<300$), for #2 GSA PX2 Lite (2.000$) or similar, in total 2.300$
c) for #1 and #2 use Vector X / Pro, in total 3.200$

Can GSA's camera system Lx be worth the wait until May 2012? It has been postponed numerous times,
but seems to be a cheaper alternative to the GC2.

BTW: there is already an existing alternative to the vaporware of http://swingbyte.com/, http://www.pocketpro.org/ and the like.
It's called iTrainer, see http://www.insight-sports.com/. I would generally doubt the accuracy of such devices.

Looking forward to your comments,
-Stefan.