P3proswing swing speeds and distances

[SFR]

Pulling up the old thread to let P3Pro users know to check their site about the new update 4.4 which has fixes for some of the issues. Still need to test to confirm what, but there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. Also another link is in the hardware forum.

[Stonebattle]

I have the new version loaded. I'm getting much higher ball flights with big bounces.
Ball flight for thin shots are still not shown as thin shots. What are you getting?

[SFR]

Pm sent..... but I have not had a chance to test much. Thin shots may not be any better unless a person adjusts the sweet spot and penalty again. Should have better ball LA but not sure how the ball is bouncing as I have yet to get full shots in. Time to temporarily move it up to the livingroom....

When someone else gets the Prem Courses going see if the terrain angle effects the LA of the ball. IE: on a hill, hitting up the hill. Then hitting down the hill. What do you notice? This does work in the P3Pro courses now just wondering about the Prem Courses.

[Stonebattle]

SFR
I no longer have the Prem Courses. I've hit quite a few shots with the new software and the ball flight certainly has a different look. I'm looking forward to what others are finding. I have not tried the sweet spot penalty yet, actually I have not found it yet. It could be I've had some installation issues.

[SFR]

There is a menu for the type of pad you have like grass top and rubber top so that if you set you tee height and grass height up in the sim it will know to adjust for the type of pad you use.

As for the sweet spot and how much penalty is applied, I am not sure if that changed or not in the new software. Basically you just enable sweet spot penalties in the golf menu so if you miss hit the ball it should show a bit of loss of yardage. To change that you need to get inside the program. I had mine so 1/2" off the sweet spot made 10% less in yardage. Even to the point that a skull lost a lot of yardage. The problem with this fine tuning is that you need to know for sure the tee hight and grass height for your shots and not change that as teeing the ball 1/4 inch higher for one shot would make a big difference as to where the sim thinks you hit it. This may be why the penalties are not easily noticable.

I hit a few full swings with the PW and yes the ball flight is much higher and thus the ball travels a bit further so less need to adjust yardage. Also bigger bounce but that could be tweaked. Checks up good on the greens in the prem courses now.

Lots of testing to do yet and any input from anyone who has the new version installed, would help us all.

[Stonebattle]

I found the top type in the software, but I did not realize that was being referred to when the subject of sweet spot was being discussed.

In version 4.3 I had the ball offsets set 1/2 in higher than standard in the config file. It appears that is not necessary with the new software.

I agree there is still quite a bit of testing still to do before a final call can be made. Have you analyzed the config file differences?

[SFR]

I think what they were saying with the pad top and knowing what you were using made measuring ball height or tee height a bit easier. But once you have things set you don't need to worry either way.

Config file is different with both P3pro courses and Prem Courses and the back spin numbers are major different for Prem Courses (for the better I think).

The terrain angle now works in P3Pro courses to add or lessen the launch of the ball angle accordingly, not in Prem Courses but not a big deal there. The odd time you may hit into a hill if you don't use a higher lofted club.

I think the bounce could be tweaked as now the higher ball flight causes the ball to bounce more when landing a PW shot on the green. View may need to be adjusted as I was getting a green blob in the air when doing the chase type view. Not sure if that was just me.

I want to test things out better before too many more comments but early vote might be a .

[golfun]

Questions about Skulling ball-

When hitting off of the grass top, if you skull the ball does the system read it correctly and show a skulled ball with shorter distance and lower launch angle? (because it reads club height)
Can you set the preferences so it shows a skulled shot with even more penalty(lower and shorter)?
Does it work in the New or Old Courses?

Thanks!!!!!

[SFR]

Questions about Skulling ball-

When hitting off of the grass top, if you skull the ball does the system read it correctly and show a skulled ball with shorter distance and lower launch angle? (because it reads club height)
Can you set the preferences so it shows a skulled shot with even more penalty(lower and shorter)?
Does it work in the New or Old Courses?

Thanks!!!!!

It didn't on the old version and I would think not on the 4.4 ver. but have not tested it.

What I had done on the older version was make the penalty area bigger and adjusted the amount of penaty to be applied. I did have it to a point where you just caught the ball on the edge of the club and it would register as a shot but just be 50% less or so in distance. You never seen a low skulled shot but at least you did not get full distance out of it. However when you set it up that way you must make sure your tee and grass height are bang on or you will get a miss read as to ball and club contact. I think stock setting would not take much off for miss hits and in fact some miss hits where you may still hit a ball but top it, may not show up as a registered shot in the P3Pro.

If you do adjust these areas they would transfer to the Prem courses. However they don't like you adjusting stuff in case you screw things up to a point that you need there help to get it back again. I can see their point, but if you know what you are doing it can be done.

The only way a sim could read these shots is by reading the ball or using the LA Cam on the P3pro courses or buying a $3000 vector pro and adding $200 software and dongle to use it with the Prem Courses. Other systems read the ball and not the club but are more money however by adding the Vector pro and software you are getting close to those other systems.

One would think that it would be possible to program into the software that when it registers a hit on the lower part of the club it would lower LA and higher up on the face would raise LA. Even if it was an estimated adjustment. At least you could see some penalty. Again can't say for sure on this latest version but will test that with the swing pendulum.

[jagmanjoe]

Pulling up the old thread to let P3Pro users know to check their site about the new update 4.4 which has fixes for some of the issues. Still need to test to confirm what, but there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. Also another link is in the hardware forum.

Ok, I heard about the new software for the P3Proswing - version 4.4 and that included things like adjustments for different turfs. I went to the site (keep in mind my unit is less than one year old). Yes, you can download the new software for free BUT they immediately point out that if you do not have the "new security dongle" you will lose functionality. If you want the new software without losing this functionality, you must purchase the software with the dongle for $89.00.

Does anyone know just what functionality is lost?? It sounds ominous at best to me.

[SFR]

Ok, I heard about the new software for the P3Proswing - version 4.4 and that included things like adjustments for different turfs. I went to the site (keep in mind my unit is less than one year old). Yes, you can download the new software for free BUT they immediately point out that if you do not have the "new security dongle" you will lose functionality. If you want the new software without losing this functionality, you must purchase the software with the dongle for $89.00.

Does anyone know just what functionality is lost?? It sounds ominous at best to me.

I am not 100% sure on this and I am not part of P3Pro but what I think is:

Some of the older versions at the start you did not need a dongle to play one of the P3pro courses. Also could do the range and putting and practice on course etc. all without a dongle. As versions got newer they started the dongle for even the two P3Pro courses. After that the dongle was for the Prem courses with the added green dongle for course play. Next came out the version that only needed the P3pro dongle and they skipped the green dongle .

So if you have been using a dongle to play the Prem Courses and have that dongle you should be ok. I had the 4.2 version and I am fine with the 4.4 install. If you were using an old version that did not need a dongle then don't upgrade unless you want to add the Prem Courses anyway.

As far as what the turf options do is basically just adds the height of the turf to your tee and grass settings in the menu and if you have two pads hooked up, one pad rubber top and the other turf top, the one ball height setting will work on both pads even though one is 1/2" off from the other.

The big reason to upgrade is that the 4.4 no longer has an issue with the putt jumping on the green, the ball checks better on the green, bunker play is better, and the ball flight in much higher (might be needing a tweak) but now end yardage is more accurate without adjusting that 10% extra on the slider.

For those who like to tweak you still can...

[golfun]

It didn't on the old version and I would think not on the 4.4 ver. but have not tested it.


One would think that it would be possible to program into the software that when it registers a hit on the lower part of the club it would lower LA and higher up on the face would raise LA. Even if it was an estimated adjustment. At least you could see some penalty. Again can't say for sure on this latest version but will test that with the swing pendulum.

Yes please reply what you find out! Thanks!!!

[Stonebattle]

I thought I might share some additional information about P3pro sensors and software version 4.4. At one time I had two sensors. One with the old grass top and one with the rubber top. Both had been sent to P3proswing for service within 6 months of this test.

I had my swing analyzed by a pro the day I did this test and the average swing speed came out just over 100mph and the ball speed of 147 mph. I used a cleveland launcher driver for all the swings.

Average below is for 5 swings and the results were repeatable.

P3proswing sensor #1
Swing Speed Ball Speed
94.9 mph 141 mph

P3proswing sensor #2
Swing Speed Ball Speed
97.1 mph 144 mph

I find these results interesting. The two sensors were a bit over 2% different for swing speed. This of course suggests P3proswing's accuracy claim may be a bit optimistic. I sold sensor #2, but still have sensor one and still use it.

I've tested sensor #1 with software version 4.4 and it seems about the same for swing speed and ball speed as version 4.3. Distance also does not seem much different. Still, I'm having a positive reaction to version 4.4 although the ball flight is higher than my normal ball flight.

[SFR]

I thought I might share some additional information about P3pro sensors and software version 4.4. At one time I had two sensors. One with the old grass top and one with the rubber top. Both had been sent to P3proswing for service within 6 months of this test.

I had my swing analyzed by a pro the day I did this test and the average swing speed came out just over 100mph and the ball speed of 147 mph. I used a cleveland launcher driver for all the swings.

Average below is for 5 swings and the results were repeatable.

P3proswing sensor #1
Swing Speed Ball Speed
94.9 mph 141 mph

P3proswing sensor #2
Swing Speed Ball Speed
97.1 mph 144 mph

I find these results interesting. The two sensors were a bit over 2% different for swing speed. This of course suggests P3proswing's accuracy claim may be a bit optimistic. I sold sensor #2, but still have sensor one and still use it.

I've tested sensor #1 with software version 4.4 and it seems about the same for swing speed and ball speed as version 4.3. Distance also does not seem much different. Still, I'm having a positive reaction to version 4.4 although the ball flight is higher than my normal ball flight.

I could test out mine with the swing pendulum. I can get the same swing speed using it although its slow at 17+ mph but can be repeated. I have 3 pads, one grass top and rubber top with new usb connection and 1 rubber top old serial to usb. It is so hard to repeat a real swing the exact. It could even be that if you did the same test reversed you may find what ever pad you used second had higher swing speed just because you were warmed up and looser. Just a thought.

Also we could adjust that higher looking shot to make it more what you like but you may gain a couple yards with the lower trajectory.

One area in P3pro's two courses, I am not sure the back spin factor is working. No matter what you do you can't get more spin. Seems like a PW into the green will bounce and roll forward almost like a 5 iron. Anyone else notice this? In the prem. courses you could back one off the green if you wanted to set it that way. I have now made the bounce on the green less in the Two courses. The Prem. course is good as it is.

I have re set my club penalty changes into the new software so that the miss hits do loose yards and the what would be a whiff now catch the ball but you only get about 45% or so of the yardage out of that shot. That area is almost impossible to produce accurately but it's better at least to see reduced yardage.

[Stonebattle]

SFR
Of course you're right that swing speed can increase or decrease depending on how loose one is. In this case, I was well warmed up and could reverse the order with the results coming out about the same. It would seem swing speed should be an easy and accurate measurement, yet there was clearly a difference between the two pads. Perhaps I'm wrong, but should not a two to three percent difference be noticable to most single digit handycap players?

So, you have three sensor pads. I must admit I am very curious to see what you get with your setup.

I not sure how to adjust the software to get a lower looking shot, can you give me some feedback on this?

[northgolf]

Stonebattle,

My swing speed varies across a range - it can be as high as 112 and as low as 102. When I am just trying for a consistent swing, I still find a 3-4 mph variance (104-108) but sometimes I surprise myself with a fast one. So, my personal experience is no - a 3mph difference isn't noticable to a single digit handicap (my hcpi is 6.2).

[golfun]

How accurate are Full Swings with Irons? Are they reading what you thought they should be including face angle? Thanks!

[Stonebattle]

northgolf:
Thanks for the input. You're a good golfer and the differential you see in swing speed does surprise me a bit. My swing speed is within 3 mph once I'm warmed up. Perhaps I should add some more information. I make sure I'm warmed up when I make the swings. I take 5 or even better 10 swings and get an average. When I do this I come out with an average that is consistant within about a half mile per hour. A good way to do this is to take 7 swings, throw the high and low out and take the average of the 5 swings that are left. Does this make thing make more sense?

[Stonebattle]

Golfun:
I do find the information provided by the p3proswing reasonable and consistant with what I see on the course. So, yes I find information provided by the P3proswing sensor on face angle, angle of attack, swing path and ball impact position reasonable for most full swing shots and I see this information as invaluable.

Still, I have issues with swing speed, club distances and launch parameters when the ball impact is on the fringes of the club.(That last part meaning thin, fat, or off the toe or heal) Of course the new software shows fairly high launch angle.

I would like to know how you see it.

[golfun]

I don't have one but I have tried it in SA and the clubs that were taped properly worked really well.

I would like to know too if you can adjust the LA of the ball for off center hits like skulling. How is it done?

[SFR]

I don't have one but I have tried it in SA and the clubs that were taped properly worked really well.

I would like to know too if you can adjust the LA of the ball for off center hits like skulling. How is it done?

To do any of the changes you need to alter one of the files. P3Pro does not want the average guy changing this area as it could cause issues with how the software runs. However If you save that file so you always have an original you will always be able to start over. I think it would be a bonus to have a self adjusting menu for all this stuff and a reset button. I think it would be a huge plus to P3Pro.

As the software is now, the LA can't be set from our end to make it register that if you hit the ball low on the face it lowers the LA or if you hit the ball high on the face it would make for a higher LA. One would think that it may be possible to add that into the software as an estimate and let one adjust to suit your needs.

Instead what I have done was create a slightly different club reading area that allows for a mis hit that is on the outer edge of the face still register (would not before) but yet as lossed yardage by adjusting the penalty for miss hits. So if I scull one it now comes up short. May not look 100% accurate on the visual ball flight but at least it shows as a shorter shot. Downfall is you must use the same tee height for your tee'ed ball and set that up so it is bang on. I used a piece of tape on the club face to confirm where the ball hit and adjusted. For your grass height that won't change where as you could tee the driver up higher or lower by mistake.

[SFR]

Stonebattle,

My swing speed varies across a range - it can be as high as 112 and as low as 102. When I am just trying for a consistent swing, I still find a 3-4 mph variance (104-108) but sometimes I surprise myself with a fast one. So, my personal experience is no - a 3mph difference isn't noticable to a single digit handicap (my hcpi is 6.2).

Ok tested out two pads. One hard grass top usb pad and one older rubber serial to usb.
They tested to within .1 to .2 mph for ball speed and about .1 swing speed entry and exit. Some change can be as simple as the pad placement not 100% the same spot as the pendulum passes over. Back and forth as I swapped pads the rubber top was .1 faster all the time. For me that was well within reason. Yours could be out but as long as they repeat the same on their own it's not a big deal but still nice to confirm if others notice the same.

So if you translate to a 270 yd drive it migh make a yard or two difference. This was a slow swing speed so it may still not be the best way to confirm but it think mine were very close.

**Side note** Do you notice a green blob at the top of the screen when using a PW or SW and doing a follow ball view?

PM also sent.

[Stonebattle]

SFR:
A menu allowing adjustment of the various parameters sound interesting. Great idea. Let's hope P3proswing picks up on this.
I would also like to see a difficulty setting. Perhaps beginner, amateur and pro or perhaps full realism. It seems to me they have two difficulty settings now, without sweet spot penalties, which would be about beginner and with sweet spot penalties, which would be about amateur.

It sounds like the two sensors you tested are quite close. Driver distance was where I first noticed the difference between the two sensors I had. The drivers on one was on average 5 to 8 yards longer then the other one.

I don't see a green blob at the top of the screen when using a PW with follow ball option selected.

[SFR]

Regarding that green blob when hitting a PW or SW high with the follow ball view.

I loaded the new 4.4v on the XP laptop and the blob is more a real light green almost fade blob and not the solid green as on the windows 7 laptop. May have something to do with video card???

When on the driving range the blob is faded using the windows 7 laptop but changes to green on the courses. Only in the P3pro two courses.

[golfun]

Stonebattle and all- Isn't it odd that P3ProSwing doesn't have the miss-hits setup to effect launch trajectory?

Ball hit High on the Club Face= Higher Launch Angle, Shorter Distance.
Ball hit Low on the Club Face= Lower Launch Angle, Shorter Distance.
Ball hit on Very Bottom of Club Face(Skull)= Like 1-degree Launch Angle, Extremely Shorter Distance.

It just seems since they take these clubface readings already, they should be able to have these results in effect in some form when your playing.
It would have to be so much more realistic.

I hope they are listening to you all!

[Stonebattle]

Golfun
I've been out for a while so sorry for the late response.
It does seem odd to me they do not translate attack angle and ball strike position into the launch angle for the flight of the ball. My attack angle when hitting a normal 7 iron is 3 to 4 degrees down. When I hit a punch shot, the angle of attack is more on the order of 7 to 9 degrees down. I have not taken data on this issue, but the launch angles appears to be similar with these different attack angles.

I think I mentioned before that I've compared the ball strike positions shown in the P3proswing software with impact tape and the results are quite close. To me, this is a very good sign that the data they are collecting is good. The ball flight, of course is not as good and therefore not as informative.

[Tailwagger]

Hi All,

Took the plunge on one of these. Given the price point and my primary interest being self improvement, it seemed a reasonable way to go. I'm having a little trouble however. Using the diagnostics software, my sensors seem to be firing and in the main program the confidence meter is fully charged. I've both done taped and untaped clubs, moved the sensor around, set up a screen to ensure a shadow over the sensor as well hit as 9 iron, 5 iron and driver and my swings speeds seem ridiculously low and nearly identical regardless of club or conditions. A couple of months back, I did a flight scope session which showed my swing speed a consistent 82 MPH with a 6 iron. The p3p is showing my driver at around 81. The six goes no higher than 70 and that's really trying to rip it. I moved to the 9 iron and mostly got readings in the the low 60s with one at 79.8 in, 57.2 out?!? No way I could slow a club that quickly. Any one else experienced similar difficulties or have any thoughts on what might be going on here?

[SFR]

Hi All,

Took the plunge on one of these. Given the price point and my primary interest being self improvement, it seemed a reasonable way to go. I'm having a little trouble however. Using the diagnostics software, my sensors seem to be firing and in the main program the confidence meter is fully charged. I've both done taped and untaped clubs, moved the sensor around, set up a screen to ensure a shadow over the sensor as well hit as 9 iron, 5 iron and driver and my swings speeds seem ridiculously low and nearly identical regardless of club or conditions. A couple of months back, I did a flight scope session which showed my swing speed a consistent 82 MPH with a 6 iron. The p3p is showing my driver at around 81. The six goes no higher than 70 and that's really trying to rip it. I moved to the 9 iron and mostly got readings in the the low 60s with one at 79.8 in, 57.2 out?!? No way I could slow a club that quickly. Any one else experienced similar difficulties or have any thoughts on what might be going on here?

I assume you would be hitting a real ball when the ball speed slows from 79 down to 57. If this is with no ball then there is an issue. I don't think the P3pro uses the second speed reading for ball flight but rather you need to follow through with your swing past that row for the pad to trigger that swing. Iron speed in the 80's is about what I would say I get but the driver does go up into the 90's and 100's when I swing hard. What are the lighting conditions and are you using the pad at the same level as your feet. If you just use the pad on the floor and your feet on the floor you can produce lower speed and a bad swing habbit.

I know I do swing the club at a faster rate when there is a ball there to hit and I would say almost 10% higher. Also hitting in a house compared to a area with higher ceilings makes it easier to swing faster as well.

Do not have UV light on the pad and no direct light on it either.

It also may sound weird but if you hit in your socks, you may be slipping with your feet and that will loose a lot of swing speed. Make sure the pad top is at the same level as your feet and have your golf glove and shoes on and see if that changes anything. Do tape your clubs but if your meter reading is always at the top then it is reading a good swing and not missing due to lighting or other things.

I have to set the swing speed up for house use and back down for when in the shop as I swing better there and faster.

[Stonebattle]

Tailwagger
You're having some interesting results for sure. Your swing speed appears to be similar to mine.
I find the P3pro sensors are perhaps 3% low for swing speed. So the numbers you are getting sound way off.
Whenever I have issues with readings I have always been able to track these issues down to lighting or cleaning.

SFR makes some good points. Take a close look at these issues and P3pro's recomendations.

I have also found in order to get consistant results one must tape all clubs. Also, the tape must be aligned such that the center of the tape is at the center of the sweet spot and the length of the tape must be aligned very accurately with the club face.

[Tailwagger]

Tailwagger
You're having some interesting results for sure. Your swing speed appears to be similar to mine.
I find the P3pro sensors are perhaps 3% low for swing speed. So the numbers you are getting sound way off.
Whenever I have issues with readings I have always been able to track these issues down to lighting or cleaning.

SFR makes some good points. Take a close look at these issues and P3pro's recomendations.

I have also found in order to get consistant results one must tape all clubs. Also, the tape must be aligned such that the center of the tape is at the center of the sweet spot and the length of the tape must be aligned very accurately with the club face.

Thanks guys! I was wearing shoes. I dont think its a club or lighting issue, as I tried a ton of different lighting conditions, two different sets of irons, taped and untaped. I used two different computers as well. I both swung with no ball, and hit near-balls (cant hit real ones in my current location). And while my hcp is at 14 at the moment as I stopped playing golf for around 5 years, at the time I quit I was around a 7, so while I'm a little rusty still I know what a decent swing is.

Heres flightscope data from a couple of months ago and data taken today. The first four swings are with no ball present, the rest except for the last are with a near-ball.

FlightScopeIronsWeb.jpgP3ProSwingData.jpg

These swings were taken with no artificial light on what is a dreary overcast day in the Boston area. Note the rather odd physics in my final swing (no ball present):

P3PBizzarre.jpg

Now even if I dont know my swing inside and out I do know my swing IS inside out. The p3p seems to get the swing path correctly. But I as sure as I am I wont be on tour ever, I'm just as sure that no swing I made had the club face open to > 18*. There are two swings where the entry speed matches what I might expect, but all the numbers from arc in to face angle are really all over the place. Again, I'm not a great player, but honestly, I ain't no Barkley either. And even Barkley is consistent in his badness.

Either my unit is defective or its unusable in my environment. Obviously, a lot of you are satisfied (why went ahead) so I'm hoping its the former and not the latter. I'll contact support on Monday.